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If Solo Queue is buffed what should killers get to compensate?
Comments
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An "early game" wont fit the flow, they tested it already
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My concern is the order they've listed the changes - buff solo queue and then adjust killer. So once more we're looking at a "Moris & Keys" situation where the killer got nerfed for a long time before the survivor had the related change.
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I'd say reduced map sizes. That's the one thing I think every killer would agree on.
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Why would they give the killer anything? That's not their style. They'll probably gimp camping and tunneling, buff solo queue to SWF levels, and give survivors BT. In 2 years maybe killers will get something like basekit lethal pursuer. Meanwhile people will continue to ponder why the MMR system cannot function due to no killers, and why survivor queues are 20 minutes.
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Give every killer the ability to teabag and buff Ghostface to dab instead.
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The things you would give killers should just be fixes to problems 'universal SWF' would cause.
For example, one thing SWF can easily do that most randos can't is coordinate gen tapping to 'overpower' a M1 killer at many locations by constantly repairing faster than the killer can chase anyone. With hypothetical pinging or in game voice coms, that would become too common an issue that goes from 'an annoying thing that can happen if you play pig or trapper sometimes' to 'you literally can't play this killer because they auto-lose games on most outdoor realms.'
The fix to that would probably be more base regression, or some sort of 'enrage' mechanic that punishes survivors for being too 'overt' and utilizing things like the injury speedboost to put the killer in a situation they literally can't make any sort of play without losing the game. But it would be a very 'focused' nerf.
A big reason a lot of DBD's balance is super out of whack is a lot of its buffs and nerfs over its history have been very unfocused. The only good fix they made to a core mechanic problem IMO was probably Bloodlust (yes, really!) because it has almost no effect on normal gameplay and hyper-targets infinites and very specific level geometries that can get wonky, and serves as a 'combo scaling' element for survivors trying to extend a chase without ever using any sort of resource.
The big thing is probably 'hit and run and using injuries to slow the survivors becomes so anemic the killer has no interactive way to slow the survivors or put them in a situation they risk anything, because coordinated survivors can pretty easily reset when needed and ignore injuries otherwise' which likely would need some specific fix that rewards the killer/punishes survivors in a more long term way for landing hits than just an injury state: Enrage ala VHS, building some sort of 'out of chase bloodlust,' some sort of innate mapwide gen slowdown for winning chases that prevents 3 survivors from being able to maintain 100% gen uptime, or making survivors who repeatedly eat hits lose more and more of their post hit speedboost over a game would all serve to help make injury states less easily exploited a teamwide resource.
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That is my fear too. I'm already playing less killer because it is frustrating and playing some solo q. I haven't run into much of the face camping tunnelers I see everyone post about but I don't play survivors all that often.
With xbox game pass I play less dbd and more interesting indie games but keep coming back for punishment every couple days.
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They want to add icons next to the survivor icon which tells you what exactly they are doing.
And Killer vs SWF with semi competent survivors is already extremly hard depending on the killer + map so ofc they need buffs aswell once they buffed solos.
Thats what the community always said, buff solos closer to SWF and then look what buffs killers would need now.
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Trapper would need insane buffs... BTW Trapper bag is a really crappy add-on...
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So making killer role bearable is off the table?
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Have survivors always spawn at Gates. Killer spawns 100m away from both gates and to see gates aura for 10sec in the beginning.
This way survivors will never start their objective before killer does.
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If a buff was required, I'd give them access to the same HUD information as survivor. So, if survivors could see whether another is doing gens or being chased, a killer can also see what action each survivor is doing.
That way, without giving an excessive amount of information such as which gen is being worked on, both sides will know what the state of play is.
It's a small buff, but that way all perks keep their relevance, and a better balance in terms of benefits to both sides is maintained.
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Well they definitely have to give killers something if they go buff soloQ.
I think having baseline corrupted would be nice. Slowing the earlygame and survivors cant just hop onto the first gen they spawn next to. Also freeing a slot for killers to use something else.
I was playing killer yesterday at daytime (europe) which usually is when the queue times are long. 3-4 months ago i had to wait 5-10 even 15 minutes sometimes between fights to get a group..yesterday my queues were instant.
So i had instant queues on daytime and on evening time which sadly means killers have dropped out of the game. Do you survivors want to see killers in the game? Better question is do you want to see variety of killers in the game and not just the same 5 killers over and over? It's already happening.
Buff the soloQ and even more killers drop out because right now soloQ is the safe haven where we still can get kills. Good SWF teams are just disgusting.
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Make corrupt basekit
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Basekit stuff applicable to general killer gameplay. ( stuff that affects ALL killers)
Examples:
- Better gen kicking for 2.5% or higher instant damage.
- Survivors needing to hold repair for x seconds before regression is removed. (Anti gentap)
- Exit gate now regresses by 5 seconds after letting go.
- Basement hooks count are affected by scourges without being scourged hooks.
- Not sure but maybe undo killer hearing problems.
There are probably some killer specific changes suitable as compensation for the solo-swf gap stuff, but those should rather be done to remove low Killer tiers and lessen the gap between killer tiers.
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Nothing at first. I would like to see these things addressed as separate problems and not to be mixed.
SoloQ survivors are always a bit weak and feel bad. That should not be the case and if they can remove that feeling maybe my soloQ mates play better and I can coordinate better with them. I usually play with a friend and while we two can do some fancy stuff we often have issues with soloQ players having problems.
Kindred, Better Together and other stuff helps but it is not the same.
If Killers fall off an have problems that should be addressed later. I guess that some Killers will show little to no problems: Blight, Nurse and Spirit are already pretty good. Pyramide Head and Artist are also fine and do not need changes. It would be mostly trapping Killers (Hag and Trapper) and stealthy Killers (Pig, Ghostface and Myers) who should get buffed.
And honestly I like those. I think Ruin should get tuned down a bit and base regression should go up. Same for kicks to the generator who should get their value back. Right now unless you have Pop, Dragons Grip or something like this the kick does nothing. I would even be fine with a slight nerf to Pop for this to account for the change.
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another nerf
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Killer role is fine. Can camp, tunnel, and slug for free - and even use perks to enhance these playstyles. Map design may be another issue, but killers be having a field day in the current state of the game - given the right map.
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tbh im a little bit defensive about giving survivors more info, sometiems you jsut equip Kindred and solos wont go to save u cause they are so scared by the killer that wont even try to save you, so the problem is not how much you buff solo q is about how terrible your teammates are, and mmr doesnt work sicne the only measure uses is if they escaped or not and since escaping ≠ skill then you get in higher mmr worse teammates cuase they only know how to hold m1 on gens and die every 10 seconds they go in a chase, cause they just got carried by 1 or 2 survivors who know who to run the killer for some time...
the mmr should of been something related to how much u are able to keep the killer chasing you as first measurement and then the rest actions will impact aswell but not even close to chase, sicne thats the only realistic way to tell if a survivor is good or not, because thats what survive means, being able to combat the killer, not hiding behind a bush and do gens, that wont get you far once you face decent killers who wont fall for those imersed techs.
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But is it fun for them?
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Why are they playing the game if it isn't?
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What do you mean "in return"? Killers have played against SWFs for ages, and the game has been balanced around that. Buffing soloQ will just take away some of those free 4k's, nothing to compensate for.
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15% is a significant issue. SWF affects BHVR’s entire approach to balancing because they’re so overpowered it’s like balancing for two different games; buff weak killers to compete and suddenly they’re overpowered vs everyone else. If solo queue is buffed and killers are left without compensation it will be the beginning of the end for DBD.
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It depends on how they implement the status icons. If the killer can see the survivor status icons as well they might not need many buffs. If they can't see the status they will need something to make the information unreliable. The game is already a sweatfest if a killer wants to be successful, buffing solo to SWF level would just add to that.
Having too much information as a solo survivor would really take a lot of the fun away for me. I like not having all the information and having to make decisions on what I need to do to be successful in a match. SWF spoils players into having easy mode so when they play solo they think its awful. It is far from awful and actually seems pretty balanced to me.
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Again, we have to read what they said closely. They did not in any way state that it's a blanket 15% escape rate increase. They said escape rates increased as much as 15% for some players at higher MMR brackets. That is very different than saying "SWF increases escape rates across the board".
And we don't know what a number as high as 15% amounts to. It's an increase at times, and that increase can go as high as 15% relative to solo. But, for example, 40+15 would only equal 55. We don't know what the final numbers even are.
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So being forced to play specific killers or using specific tactics due to ######### basekit and balancing is considered fine?
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You can play any killer or playstyle you want - as long as that playstyle isn't explicitly against the rules. The only one I can think of is infinitely bodyblocking a survivor so that the match won't end.
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Yes for choice but viability is not in terms of who to use and in playstyles right now especially since for some ungodly reason the devs refuse to even acknowledge any issues with things such as the jury rigged mmr, the boon mechanic, giving a reason why addons and perks that are used alot on killers get dealt with quicker than survivor ones and so on.
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Killers are balanced based on SoloQ.
SoloQ gets buffs.
Killers: So we will get buffed as well? Since we were basically built to SoloQ power so the game was not unplayable for them.
Survivors: Why would Killers get a buff? 🙃
Never change, DBD forums. Never change.
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What COULD they get to balance out a theoretical future where solos and SWF all play at the same level? Pick any three:
- Validate grabs into grabs, not weapon swings which potentially miss
- Remove 10-20% of pallets and/or vault spots from every map
- Survivor crouching/standing takes 0.5-1 second
- Kicking a Gen regresses it 10%
- Gens always passively regress at 25-50% normal repair speed
- Killers move 10-20% faster while no survivors are in their terror radius
- Bloodlust continually keeps building until a survivor is downed (or a killer hits a different survivor) and decays slowly instead of going away completely
- Killer powers are performed/recharge/accumulate/whatever 5% faster for every finished gen
- Baked in Corrupt Intervention
- After hooking a survivor 5 times (not including hook states from staying on hook), the killer gains one use of their Mori, but only on survivors who have been hooked at least once
- Give killers a 5th perk slot
- Make hexes unbreakable / unblessable for the first 60 seconds of a match
- Reduce the size of the Red Stain
What WILL they get to balance out a theoretical future where solos and SWF all play at the same level? Pick any three:
- Nothing
- Nada
- Diddly
- Squat
- Zip
- Zilch
- Zero
- Null
- Nought
- Bupkis
- F*ck all
- Not One Single Thing
- 404: File Not Found
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We have no idea what the solo survivor HUD changes will be let alone what impact they'll have on the game overall. But frankly if hypothetically the change shifted the overall escape rates too much toward survivors then the simplest thing is just adjust the base generator speed slightly to compensate. That 80 seconds per generator parameter is easy to change from a programming standpoint and offers fine tuning since it can be changed by any amount desired small or large.
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Good point!
On a totally unrelated note, survivor queues have been getting kinda long lately, any idea why?
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They aren't, hence the 30% player drop in several months, plus devs essentially confirming the ratio between killers and survivors are whack, and survivor queues are double digits for some.
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Buff in the base kick. Make survivors have to repair for at least a few seconds before it stops regressing
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So you think it'd be a good idea to buff survivors across the board but leave killers as is.
Given BHVR's usual timeframe, that means killers will get their compensatory changes in about 3 years.
No thanks.
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Yeah it does, it makes survivors harder to kill, thus making killer harder, thus making it worse
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Reworking of larger/survivor sided maps. Accompany this with some changes to some of the killer sided maps (I can think of much fewer of these, but surely they exist) and maybe some changes to indoor maps to make finding generators slightly easier (such as the lights above doors on lery's(?))
The rest would be individual killer changes for weaker/clunkier killers and nerfing the pig
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The devs can shrink maps and fix survivor spawning locations like IronKnight mentioned, but otherwise having a few icon information isn't gonna hurt killers. People are really overreacting. It's not like solo survivors would be even closer to SWF level.
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A survivor is harder to kill because their teammates are aware of what actions each other are doing? No auras, no exact locations... how does this change anything? Still nowhere near SWF, which killers already have to face anyways.
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NOED as base kit
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Dead by Daylight = Deathgarden
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Hallucinating
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People saying "nothing" are largely clueless. Buffing solo queue to SWF level is something that NEEDS to happen, for sure. But in doing that, giving them all that info, you're also giving them a bunch of info perks as base kit, essentially.
Killers will largely need a buff across the board, and big maps made smaller.
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It's not that survivors become directly harder to kill, but they become even more efficient depending on the information given. Survivors not knowing if someone is going for a save either gives a kill or extra hook state and more time off of gens. If 3 survivors are on a gen and 1 on a hook 1 survivors gets off a gen and that icon now changes to let the other 2 know most likely that person is going for a save
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If you're a killer main, don't worry (no offense to soloq survivors intended I am one) most of us are stupid, some of these people are beyond help they just need experience.
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For one the gap between solo queue and swf will let them actually balance killers more effectively. Just think about all the meh killers that get nerfed or stay weak just because new players/uncoordinated players suffer against them (RIP wraith).
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