See...... what??.... noooo!..... I agree with you on a few things like bug fixes and such but huntress hatchets a problem when they're easily dodged? And then hillbilly chainsaw when Billy is easily looped?.... how does this "fix deranking" when there is no incentive to rank up? What reward do players have for putting in the hours? This is a multiplayer only game that doesnt reward for play...

   DS3 a game that is mainly story driven even rewards the pvp part of the game by giving the player rings, weapons and such after they've beaten so many players and with a game like DBD where there is no story mode this sort of game should reward the players a ton when you hit the highest rank you should get the best reward... theres always going to be a competitive side to this to everything and anything... I pray the devs have news on implementing incentive to rank up...

@witulo said:
And to anyone spending money on cosmetics, you're part of the problem why this game is still in pre-alpha stages.

Ohhhohohooo, you must really not like me then.
I'm not like you: I can enjoy this game despite its flaws.
Naturally, i would like for them to be fixed or go away.
But ehh, i'm not feeling like making a complain-thread about it that will go nowhere anyway.

@witulo said:

@Boss said:

@witulo said:
And to anyone spending money on cosmetics, you're part of the problem why this game is still in pre-alpha stages.

Ohhhohohooo, you must really not like me then.
I'm not like you: I can enjoy this game despite its flaws.
Naturally, i would like for them to be fixed or go away.
But ehh, i'm not feeling like making a complain-thread about it that will go nowhere anyway.

Complaining is a method of trying to improve something, but I don't think anything will change either.

Well yeah, you can always try...

@micsan said:
You seriously want them to limit swf to two survivors?

That's [BAD WORD] up. Most people aren't hardcore depip squads running sabo builds or anything else equally cancerous.

I simply want to be able to play this game with my friends, most of whom do not play even remotely as much as I do. Two of them have not gotten past rank 14 yet.

Why should we be punished for wanting to play together? Because some killers want an easier time, in a game where rank means nothing?

This game is catered towards casuals and removing the option to play together would be the death of this game.

That being said, I'm 100% sure that this will never be the case. So discussing it is rather pointless, but either way...my two cents.

You have to ask yourself this. Have you or your friends in a SWF group ever communicated to each other saying where the killer is, what to do next, who is going to unhook who or if the killer is chasing someone. How is that fair? How does that not provide an advantage in the game?

It doesnt matter if the killer ended up 4 killing all of you, it doesnt matter if all of you escaped. The point is every single game you play, you have an extra advantage.

Now i am not saying limit SWF to 2 people. But at the very least, show SWF groups that are 3 and 4 members. I always find it funny on here with conversations of SWF where the killers are told to suck it up, but when they ask for the smallest thing like 3-4 man SWF groups being shown its suddenly DOOM for the game and SWF groups wont ever find a lobby anymore without any stats backing it up.

@fcc2014 said:

damn apologize to the op quick.

If I do, do you think he will stop the ranting?

@fcc2014 hell, its worth a shot

@witulo I apologize for pissing in your cheerios. Do you forgive me and will you end the ranting?

If you're unhappy about certain things in this game just make your opinions heard and discuss them civilly. Don't insult each other you will just be contributing to the games poop community.

@witulo said:
Clearly you haven't played killer to know, come back when you have experienced it. Most people commenting on this in favour of SWF REALLY need to play killer and stop being a coward.

I'm rank 1 killer and rank 1 survivor though....

@PandaChris said:

@micsan said:
I completely agree with you that the SWF groups should show up as SWF, but only at the end game screen. Simply because of how incredibly annoying it is to be in queue for 15 minutes then FINALLY finding a game and the killer wusses out. I'm even for giving a decent bonus for those who play against swf, 20-50% more BPs. But, the matchmaking is broken right now and I'm 100% sure of it.

I have no problem with SWF showing at the end of the game, if the game gets balanced around SWF and voice communication. Which it wont because it screws solo survivors.

You are getting dodged because a lot of the time for killers a 3-4 SWF game is a complete dice roll. It will either be fun like the other games or a complete nightmare with people who try extremely hard with all the benefits of voice communication. Giving killers extra BP or showing SWF at the end of the game wont change anything in regards to leavers.

Your original statement was "Why should we be punished for wanting to play together?". Why should killers roll the dice on every 3-4 SWF game to possibly be punished with no fun at all? Why should they take a chance on getting a toxic team or an impossible team to win against cause they have voice communication? Because oh, its only a small chance of that happening? Thats a terrible argument to make. Oh, youll only have a terrible time 20% of the time, so suck it up and take the chance so i can have my fun.

You cannot have all these advantages like you said "We communicate, we tell each other where we are and where to go and what killer it is, all that jazz" then state killers shouldnt know they are going up against this before hand. And not only not know they are going up against this before hand...but because it might ruin your fun. If you cant see how unfair that is, that is mind boggling.

I am rank 1 survivor and rank 1 killer.

I have poured hours into this game since I started playing, as killer against swf, as survivors as swf and as a survivor solo.

You say that I should get punished for playing swf, but if I'm not going to get to play swf, I'm not going to play DbD, simple as that. I've already reduced my playtime on this game from all the time I had after work, to simply doing one or two games a day.

DbD is in no way shape or form something that's considered balanced, or even competitive. The game simply does not allow it.

Now, I've played my fair share of games, competitive and non-competitive. This game I can tell you right now is being played as if it was competitive(by way to many), but it can NEVER be an E-Sport.

When playing a non-competitive game you are not going to win all the time if you are incredibly good or even just better then your opponent. But that doesn't ######### matter at all. You simply play for fun, if you are up against something completely out of your league, it's still fun to try and see if you can beat the odds. Beating the odds every now and then is incredibly satisfying, like going up against a very good nurse with mori and still escaping at red ranks.

killers shouldnt know they are going up against this before hand. And not only not know they are going up against this before hand...but because it might ruin your fun. If you cant see how unfair that is, that is mind boggling.

Like I said, and you completely missed the it... I said SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT DODGING IS SUCH A HUGE ISSUE. Getting dodged after waiting 15 minutes, then getting dodged a second time after 15 minutes, then a third time after 15 minutes, then finally someone takes the game and is going huntress \w iri head and a mori. <- This is not "unfun", this is unplayable. I've already purchased another game to play until they fix this issue, and I know plenty of players that now refuse to play.

For many people there is no point in playing a game that is so grindy like DbD, if you can never "show it off" or use it to help your friends. I'm not going to play killer or solo or duo survivor, because I'm not going to waste my time. Do you not see that? This could have been the best ######### game in the world, but it wouldn't matter because I'm not going to wait 15 minutes to get a game that has a 60-70% chance of getting dodged.

Had there been any way that I could think of to make sure that four random killers can make it so a group of four people has to sit there for 45 minutes waiting to get into a game that's incredibly stacked against you. Remember what I said, I don't mind being stacked up against, it's just incredibly frustrating to wait for 45 minutes (that's 2 or 3 games worth of time) then getting into such a game. AGAIN, I wouldn't give a flying ######### had it not been for the 45 min wait times. Because, then we could just get into another game after a quick death. But, no, the SWF dodgers combined with the ridiculous matchmaking makes this game not playable for me and my group.

They CAN'T make it so a killer can see it's a swf because 60-70% of our swf lobbies get dodged.

I'm going to make this abundantly clear so you don't misunderstand:

Killer could see that they are up against a swf, even before lobby. But not when there is such a high percentage of swf dodgers out there.

@witulo said:
Honestly all this preaching about deranking by the streamers is beyond hilarious. As if this game is even slightly competitive with its unbelievably shoddy foundation and lack of balance. What is more than a pressing issue is all the HUGE bugs and exploits in this game, and quite frankly examples of terrible game design which to this day still need a lot of work.

Here's just a few of this game's problems, more important and revelant than deranking...

• Looping (BAD GAME DESIGN)
• Camping (BAD GAME DESIGN)
• Hatch (BAD GAME DESIGN)
• Huntress hatchets, Hillbilly chainsaw (Ridiculous collisions)
• Decisive strike (Fixable, but devs are absolutely petrified to change it, pathetic really!)
• Borrowed time (Revert the deep wounds change)
• HEX perks (Why are these a thing seriously, did you forget its 1v4 people?)
• SWF (Limit to two survivors)

Deranking is fixed quite easily by making more viable killers, if streamers REALLY don't want to go against nurse and hillbilly, then make more than 2 viable killers. In addition to this STOP MAKING KILLERS ON YOUR PERCEIVED SUBJECTIVE VIEW OF FUN!

Current Mothers dwelling tree/locker exploit (survivor jumps into locker gets caught, as a result killer is stuck)

Stupid roller skating animation after dropping pallet (No its not funny, its absolutely disgusting this company charges for cosmetics when their foundation for the game is a laughing stock)

INFINITE [BAD WORD] LOADING SCREEN! I among many have lost tonnes of rare addons and offerings to this bug, why aren't the streamers talking about this?!?!

Community as a whole: I've not seen a worse gaming community than DBD, I've played all the repeat offenders known for toxic communities, but by far this is the worst. Absolute cesspit.

P.S Stop with the cosmetics, and fix the game! When the foundation is sound, then start complaining about deranking, but at the moment the game is in a really bad state.

Limit SWF to 2 survivors are, looping, i feel like your just bad at the game and need to take a break tbh, those suggestion your said can litterly kill the game cindof.

@micsan said:
You say that I should get punished for playing swf, but if I'm not going to get to play swf, I'm not going to play DbD, simple as that. I've already reduced my playtime on this game from all the time I had after work, to simply doing one or two games a day.

I never said you should get punished for playing SWF. I am saying you cant use the argument "Why should i be punished for playing with friends" because killers are equally getting punished for playing against SWF groups. You wait 15-45 minutes for a match and the killer has a chance at having absolutely no fun wasting his time also. What if the killer only plays a few times per day, why should they have a 10-15-20% chance at having no fun at all in a match because of something the game (voice communication) isnt balanced towards.

@micsan said:
DbD is in no way shape or form something that's considered balanced, or even competitive. The game simply does not allow it.

So just because certain things arent balanced and often no fun for one side doesnt mean you just leave things as they are. If you are getting dodged at your stated 70% of games then obviously 70% of killers are having no fun playing against SWF. So ya...that should get balanced in some form. Doing nothing improves nothing for your wait time.

@micsan said:
When playing a non-competitive game you are not going to win all the time if you are incredibly good or even just better then your opponent. But that doesn't [BAD WORD] matter at all. You simply play for fun, if you are up against something completely out of your league, it's still fun to try and see if you can beat the odds. Beating the odds every now and then is incredibly satisfying, like going up against a very good nurse with mori and still escaping at red ranks.

This isnt about being upset about or playing against better opponents. This is about voice communication and again...."We communicate, we tell each other where we are and where to go and what killer it is, all that jazz"....how is that fair for the killer not knowing they are up against that before hand?

@micsan said:
Like I said, and you completely missed the it... I said SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT DODGING IS SUCH A HUGE ISSUE.

Then the simple solution is show SWF groups and have dodging on a gradual timer that increases with each dodge. (Ex: 30 seconds, 1 minute, 2 minutes, 3 minutes, etc). Ive pointed that out on other comments ive made in different threads.

@witulo said:
Clearly you haven't played killer to know, come back when you have experienced it. Most people commenting on this in favour of SWF REALLY need to play killer and stop being a coward.

SWF Sabo squads aren't hard to beat mate, just stop stressing out mid game and take your time.

Sadly this happens even in "real life" industry.
No competition is bad as there is no pressure to provide quality.

@PiiFree said:

@SenzuDuck said:

@witulo said:
Clearly you haven't played killer to know, come back when you have experienced it. Most people commenting on this in favour of SWF REALLY need to play killer and stop being a coward.

SWF Sabo squads aren't hard to beat mate, just stop stressing out mid game and take your time.

Who mentioned Sabo Squads? No one cares about sabo squads, they don't play time-efficient. Gen rush squads are the problem.

Either way - doing gens is their objective, if you play well it wont matter how "fast" they do the gens.

@PiiFree said:

@micsan said:
You are missing the point here...For you it's totally unacceptable to play against a toxic SWF, and that's the problem. A Toxic SWF is in fact nothing other then a group of survivors who communicate and are in fact, GOOD AT THE [BAD WORD] GAME.

I think you confuse "being good at the game" with "being toxic in the game".

You can be a good player without being toxic and you can be toxic while sucking at the game.

...but that explains why so many players have trouble understanding why no one wants to face toxic SWFs.

That is exactly my point.

Thing is, in this game more than any I've ever played, the difference between what's skilled and what's considered toxic by the community is so vastly different.

Many killers will tell you that running DS is toxic, when they run NOED themselves, which is considered toxic by most survivors.

Both of these things have perfect counters, DS has enduring, NOED has small game. If you have problems with NOED, run small game and see how much NOED will bother you. If DS is bothering you, run enduring to reduce that 4 second stun to 1 second(slightly more because of the animation).

Many in this very thread will argue that simply playing with your friends is Toxic, because of voice comms. There is absolutely no winning in this when there are so many who take their preferred side (killer or survivor), instead of taking in both sides as a whole.

I play both killer and survivor at rank 1 every reset, and I've learned these things first hand.

The list of things I consider to be toxic and gamebreaking is extremely short, and does not include things like NOED, DS, camping, tunneling, slugging, looping, SWF with voice etc. <- Many of these things people consider toxic because they simply suck at the game or refuse to change up their playstyle.

So many people I've talked to ingame and on reddit who complain about NOED and NEVER mention using small game. You don't need to run adrenaline, sc, ds and exhaustion perk every single game as survivor.

And you can easily swap out one perk on a killer to counter things like DS, if that's what's bothering you. It's the exact same thing for 360s, if you have a huge issue with 360s, use unrelenting. I gave this advice to a rank 20 friend who was having problems and it helped him immensely. He eventually learned how to not fall for 360s and swapped it out again, but concept still applies if you are having problems with any other ingame mechanic.

People are so easily offended in this game, and simply take offense to something rather than think constructive about it to figure out a counter.

Now, you are going to say, but how do I counter a SWF? Good question...By getting good at all the game mechanics, looping, mindgaming, countering perks or items with certain perks or items.

Are you going to win every time because you know this? No, not by a long shot. But you will definitely have more fun trying to beat SWFs rather than complaining about SWFs, SWFs are here to stay and will never go away so discussing it is mute.

You can try and discuss how to potentially nerf SWF, but it is nearly impossible because of what I mentioned earlier. The fact that so many players only play survivor or killer and will simply not know how it is for the other side. I'm surprised over how many people refuse to play both sides before getting so worked up over things. If I have a huge issue with one particular killer, I'll play him and learn how to counter him by having other good survivors show me by beating me.

@micsan said:

@PiiFree said:

@micsan said:
You are missing the point here...For you it's totally unacceptable to play against a toxic SWF, and that's the problem. A Toxic SWF is in fact nothing other then a group of survivors who communicate and are in fact, GOOD AT THE [BAD WORD] GAME.

I think you confuse "being good at the game" with "being toxic in the game".

You can be a good player without being toxic and you can be toxic while sucking at the game.

...but that explains why so many players have trouble understanding why no one wants to face toxic SWFs.

That is exactly my point.

Thing is, in this game more than any I've ever played, the difference between what's skilled and what's considered toxic by the community is so vastly different.

Many killers will tell you that running DS is toxic, when they run NOED themselves, which is considered toxic by most survivors.

Both of these things have perfect counters, DS has enduring, NOED has small game. If you have problems with NOED, run small game and see how much NOED will bother you. If DS is bothering you, run enduring to reduce that 4 second stun to 1 second(slightly more because of the animation).

I'm just gonna address this lie. NOED actually has a perfect counter called "breaking the totems". DS can only be mitigated, but it does not have a perfect counter.
There is absolutely nothing the Killer can do to prevent the activation of DS; it's all on the Survivor hitting a very easy skill check. On the other hand, the Survivors can break totems, which actually does prevent the activation of NOED.
So no, they don't both have "perfect counters". One of them has a perfect counter, the other has ways to mitigate - but never completely nullify - its effect.

@Orion said:
I'm just gonna address this lie. NOED actually has a perfect counter called "breaking the totems". DS can only be mitigated, but it does not have a perfect counter.
There is absolutely nothing the Killer can do to prevent the activation of DS; it's all on the Survivor hitting a very easy skill check. On the other hand, the Survivors can break totems, which actually does prevent the activation of NOED.
So no, they don't both have "perfect counters". One of them has a perfect counter, the other has ways to mitigate - but never completely nullify - its effect.

I do not agree. Maybe we disagree on what perfect counter is, but we both agree that they are counters.

I still think it's comparable as a survivor has to spend 14x5 seconds to remove said totems. As in you need to spend time for the counter to work. I don't think it's that far off to compare it to DS.

NOED isn't as perfectly countered as you make it out to be.
it still takes 70 seconds to remove all totems, plus you have to look for them. Time split between all 4 I guess, 17.5 seconds on average per survivor to do this task.

But, putting on small game makes that task easy, aka a counter.

Same with DS.
Put on enduring and you still have to chase them again, but they won't get very far. I don't think you would spend as much time chasing a DS then you would do removing all 5 totems. If you play with this in mind and make sure to use that split second to move to a place where the survivor can't get into a good loop right away after the DS hits. Or, you could juggle or slug.

It's the fact that the people who keep complaining about these things and that they should be nerfed that bothers me. I do not believe they are OP, and I do not believe they should be removed from the game.