Killer Differences are Insane
At my MMR we really only see about 5 killers: nurse, blight, pinhead, bubba, huntress. (Saw my first Ghostface in 200 matches yesterday, we 4E'ed him).
BHVR should do something about the strength of their lower tier killers. When my 4 man swf sees a Ghostface, Pig, Freddy, Legion, Trapper, Clown, Demogorgon, Myers, and a few others we almost always get a 4E. We're not that great but we pass SO much information between each other: when to unhook, who is going to do it, what progress is on what gens, traps, totem spots, which door to open, who is going to bodyblock, etc.
I would like to see these guys buffed. Some of them are okay but their add ons are terrible. Myers feels so mediocre but he has add ons that insta kill people, lol its just silly.
When I play killer I would like to feel a bit intimidating when I play these guys, not some survivor plaything. Makes me just want to stick with high mobility top tier killers. Some folks don't mind going 0/10 in matches but it is demoralizing.
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You did not just call Demogorgon weak
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Yeah, we can't call demogorgon weak when he doesn't even exists anymore.
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You make me feel sick
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Deathslinger never was good to begin with
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Kinda true tbh.
It is rough playing for hooks against coordinated swf with m1 killer who are also decent loopers. You are not getting downs quick enough. And if you are not insta down there are bodyblocks, flashlights and pallet saves to worry about on top of everything.
I wouldn't mind 4man if some of them don't click my ears off and bm. It just makes me stop playing weaker killers for a while.
Myers is the only exception because tombstone piece makes him intimidating. And I have a lot of tombstones in my inventory from all the years of not using them often.
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To think about it, Pig & Pinhead are the best design with their build-in slowdown that split their power into 2 parts. Buffing 1 part too far doesnt hurt the other side because that would buff them only 50% of their powers.
Slinger is just a really bad killer design. His power was un-counterable for survivor who's in chase, but nerf his power result in destroying him because he has nothing else to back up for the nerf.
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He’s so strong he got bored, casually defeated the entity and left to do something else.
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The counter to slinger's power was always about making yourself hard to hit, and reads (not reactions) for when he was going to go for shots. Just like huntress, but his misses were (longer cooldown and shorter range, no resource management) vs the opposite on huntress. TBH the majority of complaints about it were people with extremely predictable movement who refused to bait shots, and the hammer fell so hard on him that they even upped his TR to make his limited range hurt that much more.
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This is just going to get twins nerfed again :(
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That's something I can agree with
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He was. If he was still in his old state he would be about 5th best considering how far twins got pushed down with COH meta and the spirit nerf.
His 3 gen and chase were great comboed together. Add on wardens and cigar + some good perks he became easily one of the best given a decent map.
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Theoretically, this is something SBMM should take care of or at least illuminate. If the devs see that X killer generally tops out at a certain MMR which is lower than other killers, that could be a sign they need buffed. Alternatively, it should only be putting good M1 players against those good teams.
I tend to play the M1 killers as sweaty as possible to see how viable I can make them. It's a challenge, but even Legion can get it done against some nasty squads.
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someone doesn't know the difference between strong and badly designed.
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The power levels between the killers can be shocking.
just compare Blight to Clown. But what really troubles me is there add-ons are so unbalanced, with Blight’s having the better ones
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badly designed only gets complained about (and taken seriously) when its something survivors don't like though. see: the entirety of Legion's history.
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Loads of survivor things have had the same treatment. See: OoO, MoM, DS, Boil Over, etc lol both sides have badly designed things touched.
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Nerfing badly designed things does not make the devs (insert)-sided.
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Not exactly the same, especially since the devs defended OoO before nerfing it. The reason I bring up Legion specifically is because he's been in the graveyard (an entire character) since getting nerfed, and he's still badly designed. just in a way that doesn't upset survivors as much as moonwalking and following blood trails did.
A perk is one thing, but we're talking an entire character. Its taken them forever to even address how badly they got butchered, and we don't even know if reworking them is going to make a difference.
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I think Nurse and Blight are the first and second best designed and balanced killers in the game and greatly enjoy facing good killers playing them. I still think killers should be good designed regardless of strength. I also enjoy facing Spirit.
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Spirit and Nurse are both strong and well designed killers. A killer being weak, and a killer being badly designed is 2 different things. A killer could be strong and badly designed or weak and badly designed. They are separate things. I'm also mainly a killer main, but even as survivor I don't mind Spirit and Nurse because they have interactive gameplay and fun chases.
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If it was up to me, Freddy would be in a much better state by now.
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So would you rather...
Face a strong Killer with weak Addons
Face a weak Killer with strong Addons
Be a strong Killer with weak Addons
Be a weak Killer with strong Addons
Might as well get this out of the way...
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Don't know why Pinhead is up so high.
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It’s the extra mechanic, it murders noob gtoups
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Its because the devs are genuinely incompetent at their jobs and understand little to absolutely nothing about their own game. They don't realize that if they intend on balancing killers with their addons in mind that each killer must have their own Alchemist ring + blighted crow.
Which not only do most killers not have a combo that strong, the ones that DO have said addons have had them gutted (iri head, pinky finger).
And then the killer powers themselves are so weak that they are worthless. 99% of the time I don't even use legion's power for its intended purpose, instead I use it to get around the map because the unintended use is the SUPERIOR way to use it.
Lets not even get into the fact that killers are more often punished for their success instead of being rewarded, which makes killers feel awful to play. (Looking at the Victor pounce nerf.)
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He is weak to my tickles. He just plops over every time I start to rub his belly too!
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I used to say your name in my head with an emphasis on "That". ThatOneDemoPlayer.
Now I say your name in my head with an emphasis on "One". ThatOneDemoPlayer.
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pig sucks lmao
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Demo aint weak, he's literally anti loop. He's pretty good, I've won like 90% of my games with him. Coming from a demo main.
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I like how OP mentions my most played killers, blight, bubba, nurse and huntress. I like playing pinhead but the fact that his chains break in environment drive me crazy. I'd like to see more killer be strong but survivors do not seem to want that. there is thread about blight add-ons being too strong and... one about bubba stearing being too strong which is funny to say the least.
My experience is similar OP. It feels like playing survivor is 40% blight, 20% nurse and the rest being random but bubba/huntress being more common than rest. I play mostly solo. Is SWF really that one dimensional, you haven't seen any other killers since ghostface? ghostface is not even that good. who knew that swf experience was more dry than solo survivor experience, go figure.
@BenihimeWrath "They don't realize that if they intend on balancing killers with their addons in mind that each killer must have their own Alchemist ring + blighted crow."
if there one thing that I've learned from the devs, I think they like the power-disparity being as massive as possible. I do not see a bright future for weaker killers getting stronger add-ons. I only see more survivor whining and more dev pondering to change killers negatively based off their feedback. casual survivors really hurt high-level play of this game which is why you see so much of same killers and so little variety.
I do not think that it is entirely fault of dev. The dbd community in general complains too much about killers and dev are self-reflection of the communities requests, especially survivor mains requests. For that reason I think most killers are going to be under-powered and underwhelming from gameplay perceptive. Dev do not care about killer gameplay, only stats so there is that as evident by Patrick's comment on Twins during Q&A. I would assume similar answer for Clown & Nemesis.
Personally wish it was less about stats and more centered around fun gameplay.
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I had not seen a Ghostface in 200 matches, but you're right it's blight and nurse about 50% of the time. With bubba and huntress showing up more commonly than the other TWENTY-TWO killers!
I usually go dozens and dozens of games without seeing 80% of the killers. It's been a long time since I saw a Plague, Hag, Demo, Twins, Slinger. When we do see them we're like, "oh cute, another easy match". We occasionally lose to them but that is usually due to our own altruism.
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I think I tend see a bit more blight than nurse. I often joke that survivor are playing blight by daylight. its not too uncommon to face like 5 blights in a row. I can definitely agree with the statement of "easy-killer matches". Most of them just are not really challenging to loop especially if there is abundance of safe loops. I would also agree altruism aspect being defining aspect that gives a lot low tier killers a lot of kills for no real reason.
To talk briefly about EGC Altruiam, There is strategy to escaping killers that do not have instant/fast attack recovery. First surrounded the killer in 15 meter area. All you have to do is take 1 hit and than unhook during killer recovery animation. Some killers might purposely not hit the survivor and look for grabs, but you can counter-act this by bodyblocking the person who unhooks so that they do not get grabbed. For reason, solo tends have hard time coordinating this, but I feel like its simple and easy that most of the low tier killers should just walk with 0 kills.
I mean ghostface vs swf barely has an ability in outdoor map. with 4 eyes watching him, your almost never in his ability to stalk in first place. Revealing him is far too easy. Stalking is too risky and has little to no reward. Anything that is not complete stalk tends to be worthless as m1 the survivor resets stalk meter which punishes you for using his ability. In my experience, revealing him is generally faster than his ability to stalk. On off-chance he gets to successfully stalk, there is no real guaranteed that he can confirm the down. Often just running him into safe loops is enough to make the mark expire. He is just another pure M1 killer with no real purpose. I would not say that he is pleasurable killer experience in my opinion.
No real surprise to not see ghostface that much.
Slinger is apparently bAdLy DeSiGNed. Demo is just worse bubba that breaks pallet slower without instant down. Portals do not really contribute to DBD's fast game tempo. Hag is really easy to counter. always thought she was overrated.
She is only good indoor maps like ghostface because she can trap choke points. Hag in outdoor maps is easy to counter. Just give her bad first chase and spread generator pressure so she can't trap a single area. if she forces 3 generator, its war of attrition of repair/heal until you escape. COH streamlines the process.
Plague, they just shifted her slowdown from cooldown to wind-up by nerfing rubbing oil add-on and than they even took liberty to nerf vile effectiveness add-ons effectively counter-acting their buffs. They also reworked her vile emetic into something useless. She also has the problem where they made her ability survivor client-sided instead of killer client-sided which often makes survivors scream on killer side but no infection application. The system is refer to as "Favor shooter" because its projectile mechanics are sensitive to latency. Plague has "Favor the survivor" problems. Plague's good case of them not being able to just buff killers without making them worse.
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Well, you do have to take something into consideration too:
You very rarely, to almost never see blight, bubba, pinhead and nurse in low mmr. Having killers spread out over certain MMR ranges simply means those killers right now cannot handle higher MMR survivors. Survivors have the biggest skillrange in the game. Survivors do not have unique mechanics on characters, survivors do not have unique MMR.
The MMR system benefits both sides: killers who cant handle SWF on comms will rarely see SWF on comms, survivors who cannot handle good nurses yet, will rarely see good nurses.
For all killers to have the same MMR potential, would require to somehow balance maps with all powers in mind without giving any killer any additional benefit, nor accidental weakness.
Do you know how impossible it is for a map to be fair with Doctor, Nemesis, Nurse and Myers in mind? For Nurse, you need about a 50/50 vision blockers. For Myers, you'd need to be able to come from weird angles without being spotted. For Nemesis, you'd need quick access to loops for survivors while also not spamming loops. While against Doctor, you would need to give the survivors the ability to chain loops while also having a lot of vision on Doctor.
This alone makes it impossible for a map to be balanced in equal measures towards all killers.
But even with all that in mind, that doesnt even matter. Even if things are balanced perfectly, you will always end up with a Bell-curve. Meaning there will always be weakest killers that wont be able to reach the mmr of strongest killers. Killers will never be equally strong, because if they are equally strong, they are effectively the same killer with the same power.
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