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Prevent Nurse from blinking down at the floor to cover less distance - fair nerf to Nurse?
I'm wondering what others think about nerfing Nurse so that she cannot look down with a blink and cover less distance (hopefully you understand what I mean). Once upon a time Nurse's HAD to commit to their first blink's distance. This meant if they held their first blink fully they would blink quite far away and the only way they could stop this is if they blinked at an unpassable wall.
Nowadays good Nurse's take advantage of how she can blink downwards, so that they can cover less distance. Meaning when a survivor double backs to mindgame, she can correct and mitigate her otherwise long held blink distance by looking down.
Would it be fair if we remove that possibility so that Nurse's HAVE to commit to their first blink's actual distance, leaving more room for mindgames (double backing would be more effective) and less room for the Nurse to correct themselves?
**NOTE**: This wouldn't remove her ability to blink up and down floors. And although the nerf would apply to second blinks too, in reality it would only really force Nurse's to commit to their first blink's distance because they can hold their second blink for long enough to become fatigued anyway. This change would increase her skill ceiling even more and would allow for more counter play (AKA double backing being more rewarded when the Nurse is not expecting it).
Comments
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Nah. Watch some old Tru3 vods to see how to ‘mind game’ a Nurse.
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This change would raise her already absurdly high skill floor aswell as make her more frustrating to play, at this point Nurse needs everything but balance changes, bug fixes and reduction of her clunkiness would go a long way in making her feel like a polished character
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the fact that you can't play nurse doesn't make her that hard to use. even a mediocre nurse can make short work of the very best survivors
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Quick question, do you consider yourself a mediocre nurse?
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It's true! Nurse is very easy to play and can stomp the best survivors without any kind of incredibly steep learning curve. That's why her kill rate is so staggeringly high!
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How about you use all the options available to you to just juke her?
Seriously, why do survivors always go for the "nerf the killer" card instead "hmm, let me get better vs this killer"
Try playing Nurse, get good with her, learn her weaknesses, and then translate those into your survivor play, and stop expecting every killer to be a carbon-copy replica of every other one so you only have to learn one strategy to loop.
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This post is about adding a bit more counterplay by having Nurses commit to the distance of their held blink. If you think about it, the current mechanic doesn't really make sense. It didn't always work the way it does now. I believe the mechanic is actually a byproduct of the buff nurse received that allowed her to blink up and down floors.
This nerf would not suddenly allow survivors to start looping the nurse as you suggest. That's a gross overreaction.
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Counterplay for me but not for thee sums up survivor mains moaning about killers.
You essentially want survivor to have zero counterplay for the killer and just want killers to be robots.
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I mean, a learning curve isnt exactly a good claim to give a killer practically free kills at some point. With that logic, survivors should always have 4-man escapes against any killer at one point, since survivor learning curve is even steeper than Nurse(yes, I know how dumb that might sound, but it's true. Your experience on how survivors play against 1 killer carries over to your 2nd killer. Your experience as a survivor against 1 killer doesnt necessarily carry over against the 2nd killer).
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Yes, of course I'd like that. That's absolutely what this post and my comment suggests. Thanks for your comment.
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The only change I wish Nurse has, is nerfing her cooldown reduction addons. Its pretty much equal to having Alchemist Ring on Blight when played together, and after dodging both blinks on a Nurse should reward the survivor, rather than having a Nurse fully close the gap with 1 more blink.
Either that, or fatigue while being in chase(+ the 5 second chase cooldown where picking up a chase would still make it the same chase) should be different from fatigue out of chase, which I wouldnt mind. I think Nurse could easily do with a static 1 second fatigue with 0.25 second increment per blink outside chase(so, 1.75 second fatigue with 3 blinks, imagine the distance you can make) and a 2.5 second basekit fatigue with a 0.75 second increment per blink while in chase(aka, 4 seconds of fatigue with 3 blinks). A good Nurse would quickly stalk upon a survivor and gets rewarded to close the gap quickly, where a good survivor would be encouraged to keep the Nurse in chase at all costs. Chases already get cut off super quickly as a Nurse, so I think it should be fine.
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Okay, but if we're talking about going back to old mechanics I also want the 7 blinks back and no blink recharge mechanic to compensate.
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Um. This is literally part of the mindgaming involved in playing as and against a Nurse. Learn to mindgame. Why would it be removed? She doesn't even need a nerf in the first place, other than to Torn Bookmark.
Post edited by SuzuKR on0 -
Biased survivor main here and even I have to say no. Nurse players who can use her effectively deserve to be able to break the game over their knee. That's just how this works, she's the most difficult to learn killer for a reason. While I understand your points, this would be a step backwards for a killer. Imagine if they reverted Hag's teleport mechanic to how she was at launch when she couldn't instantly teleport and get a hit with perfect timing like she can do now? It would just be unnecessary going back and making killers less fun and more archaic and clunky.
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Hyperbole? Otherwise, that's utterly false. Or the survivors overstated their skill.
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It's not needed, because nurse can't hit realistically with those "adjustment"... the seconds it takes to blink is still same.
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It's not about adding counter-play. It's literally about nerfing Nurse. You might want to recheck the title of the thread.
Nurse already has counter-play here:
a) Once she starts her charge, she HAS to blink (and then suffer fatigue). Your options are to either maintain course, or turn (even back toward her) to force her to misblink
b) On maps with floors, e.g. The Game, you can run back to the Nurse to force her to blink down to the lower floor... win!
c) You can also abuse obstacles that require her to blink short distances accurately, e.g. rocks and walls (remember, your hitbox also blocks her blinks)
d) Nurse's movement speed is also slower than survivors, you can literally outrun her (blinks aside).
e) After a blink, she suffers fatigue and has vision obscured... perfect time to make a getaway. And I hate to say it, but Shadow Step + Iron Will essentially allows you to disappear when this happens because she can't track after a hit.
Seriously, how much more counter-play do you want??
The problem I see over and over again is that survivors refuse to step up and learn how to counter-play the killers. They just want every killer to work in the same way, and when they don't, they cry "there's no counter-play!!! waaaah!!!" instead of actually looking for it.
Play Nurse. Get good with her. Get to a level where you're getting 4K's vs survivors with 1000's of hours and then you can let us know whether she's already got enough counters, or whether she's too easy.
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Thing is Nurse really isnt all that hard to learn compared to the other killers, I think the reason why so many people struggle with her at first is because of the numerous misconceptions that have been floating around, a big one being shes a killer all about guessing/reading your opponent.
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It is a fair nerf, but not enough. They should nerf her 3 blink addon too and they should make her blink recharge speed slower.
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Maybe not hard to learn, but definitely more punishing for mistakes than almost any other killer. I would say Twins is actually the most punishing for missing Victor, but Nurse has so many more opportunities to mess things up.
And she is all about guessing/reading depending on the map, especially some of the newer ones like Eye where there are LoS blockers every 5 feet.
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It wouldn't be a fair nerf at all. The survivor isn't double backing correctly if the Nurse can distance cancel and still hit them. That means the survivor is overcommitting to the double back way too much. You don't need to be all the way in her lunge range when you double back. That puts you in the danger zone. You just need to double back to the point that you're inside of her max 1st blink range. Then she has to cancel and give you a ton of distance, overblink, or backpedal until you're at max range again.
Survivors have way more tools/control against a Nurse than they think. They just get no practice against good Nurses.
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They aren't the best survivors if they can't beat a mediocre Nurse.
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Is it nonsensical-nerf week or something?
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Nurse really isn't that hard, and at the same time she really isn't that hard to counter.
Basically, she is pretty balanced good killer.
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I'd say they aren't even mediocre survivors if they can't beat a mediocre nurse.
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Play Nurse. Then think up nerfs.
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I don’t have a problem with nurses blinking into the ground.
I do think the stun + fatigue on a pallet stun should be brought back though.
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Again, you're putting words in my mouth when you suggest I want "every killer to work in the same way" and I'm not sure where I'm crying (as you say) about how there's no counter-play? I never said that.
All I suggest is that there is more counter-play, not that some counter-play doesn't already exist. And I'm talking from a perspective of counter-play at the highest levels where Nurses are insanely good.
Thanks for your comment although I disagree somewhat about how survivors can overcommit to a doubleback. Survivors can double back to a point where she is a few meters away (not in the danger zone) but she can still blink on top of them anyway with a fully charged blink. Now although there's more travel time with that blink, she can quickly secure the hit with her second blink when the survivor starts running off again.
This nerf would aim to remove that possibility when a Nurse has a well charged blink. Post-nerf, if the Nurse expects the doubleback, she would commit to a short range blink. Currently Nurses don't really have to commit and can instead re-adjust their blink distance depending on what the survivor does.
Anyway thanks for your comments everyone. It's clear no one agrees with this nerf. I know that Nurse has a special place in terms of balance in this game (understandably!), so this post would always be controversial. I've never seen anyone suggest this kind of nerf before so it's interesting to see everyone's replies. Feel free to comment more but I'm done with this post now.
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If you’re curious, feel free to watch tournament VODs. While competitive DBD is drastically different from regular DBD, they still have chases in comp too and you can watch how the survivors mindgame back.
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That thing got removed to fit in with Blight's & Legions "get stun = no fatigue"
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Yeah figured as much, but I feel that for her the double stun is more than fair considering how strong her power is. If you stun a nurse mid-blink there should be a substantial reward for it.
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The stun and avoiding the hit isn't rewarding enough?
I mean sure hitting her mid-blink is hard but there's always the pallet to prevent the hit.
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i dunno man, the nerf would be nice, but it's funny as hell seeing them blink down into the basement/bottom floor 😂
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Le sigh...
Again, you're putting words in my mouth when you suggest I want "every killer to work in the same way" and I'm not sure where I'm crying (as you say) about how there's no counter-play? I never said that.
What I actually said was "The problem I see over and over again is that survivors refuse to step up and learn how to counter-play the killers. They just want every killer to work in the same way, and when they don't, they cry "there's no counter-play!!! waaaah!!!" instead of actually looking for it."
If you're going to quote me... quote me properly. Don't selectively quote to make out like I said something I clearly didn't.
The comment I made is clearly a general comment related to survivors as a whole. You can argue it doesn't apply to you, fine. But you can't argue that I said that's what you said.
All I suggest is that there is more counter-play, not that some counter-play doesn't already exist.
Your "counter-play" is literally just a Nurse nerf (on top of all the other issues she faces). That's exactly how you phrased it. You're not arguing to take something she has and tweaking it to provide something additional for survivors (e.g. like Spirit's phasing sound). You're literally asking to take what she has, i.e. her core mechanic, and preventing her from being able to use it properly. That's not counter-play, that's just a straight-up nerf. Her core mechanic already has counter-play (fatigue, blinks to straight lines, blinks have to be recharged, slower than survivor movement speed, inability to cancel blinks once starting to charge, etc).
One has to wonder, at what point will survivors agree that they've already got enough...?
And I'm talking from a perspective of counter-play at the highest levels where Nurses are insanely good.
When you reach that level, then come back to us and let us know about this proposal. Until then, perhaps leave it to the players at that level to determine from their own experience whether it's warranted or not. I'm sure you'll find that the players on that level think Nurse is fine where she is. She's incredibly hard to learn and use, has loads of bugs and other vulnerabilities already, and plenty of counter-play, some of which I've already described. You don't need more, because that takes away the very essence of playing vs her.
You're not supposed to win against a Nurse, or any killer. DBD isn't a 1v1 game. You're supposed to distract them long enough for the rest of your team working together to complete the objectives on you all. If you think that any one killer has to go against 4 survivors, each of whom have full capacity to thwart the killer indefinitely, then how on earth can you possibly regard that as game with any sense of balance???
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no fatigue after getting stunned is such a monkey brain move by the devs... if the nurse plays sweaty and has double recharge addons, you literally make zero distance from the stun. guess that's why people play blight/nurse/huntresses, they have received nothing but buffs the past year.
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If anything, I'd say it gonna help newbie nurses to realized this is NOT the right way to blink if it was impossible.
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