http://dbd.game/killswitch
Lol if you are low MMR.
I cant stand those baby survivors that loop all game but die, they deserve low mmr
you see, in hockey, it's all about scoring goals. So if you don't score a goal, you're a low mmr baby hockey player. Goal scorers are the best players.
Just LOL at the hockey players who waste their time playing defense or blocking
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Agreed. Skillful play leads to wins, if you didn't win, was it a skillful play in the first place?
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It's a key feature. Taking aggro isn't something I do willingly, it's always a losing battle. Only do it if it's beneficial for your own survival in solo Q.
SWF is a totally different game.
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Exhibit A on why this game is so toxic and completely lost and will never be ready for competitive play. It has no direction. BHVR needs to leave their love of chaos to another game. There is NO "go it alone" .... because Killers are designed to win chases. So if everyone is "go it alone" and you get hooked first, you're dead? Lol at that toxic gameplay.
And notice how the devs don't actually have the fortitude to go through with their "or go it alone" dogma. They do not allow Hatch escapes to count for MMR. Why is this? Because they know how many people would just never do a gen and wait for everyone to die and escape via hatch. So they know how toxic and stupid that "Survive together.. or not" idea is.
This game needs to be "SURVIVE TOGETHER"
All other problems will solve itself once that is the stated goal. Then you can accurately rate players. And increase the factor of fun by several magnitudes. "I died a hero for my team!" instead of the bitter experience we have now.
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Obligatory reminder that the MMR system tracks averages, not individual games.
If you looped the killer for the whole game, regardless of if you die or not, the system doesn't care. It cares if you can replicate that consistently, because it's your consistent skill output that matters.
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Hiding is definitely a SKILL for sure, I know it because I play killer.
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Good loopers can replicate their good looping.
More common sense news at 11.
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It's about as competitive as Mario Kart. Treat it as such and you will have a much better time.
I don't expect anything in a solo Q game. And I am entitled to nothing other than to die screaming.
It's not a game where you always have the capability to carry a bad team. Sometimes the cord needs to be cut.
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Great. Then they'll win more chases than they don't, right?
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And get hooked eventually and die more often than not because the goal scoring hockey players leave them to rot on the hook or escape.
Lol at being a good looper who gives your team time to do the final gen. You eventually get hooked, they do final gen, and surprise, killer has NOED. Now the goal scoring hockey stars just leave match and you die.
This happens so often it's a meme.
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but since it doesnt track chases does it matter? you could win 3 chases as per the emblem system, lose 1, then get facecamped because the killer overcommited and now is desperate for a kill and suddenly you died and you werent at all skillful. add in a healthy dose of solo queue and the more consistent you make your ability to prolonge and extend chases, the less likely you are to actually survive.
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If the game would stop being so edgy and just embrace that all Survivors are a TEAM....
a lot of problems would fix themselves.
A survivor dying would go from :
"omg why did you tunnel me first, man"
would turn into....
"at least I died for my team and got points for helping them escape!"
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The devs don't like facecamping and consider it an issue to address. Similarly, they want to make solo queue more bearable and shrink the difference in escape rates.
The system obviously can't be built around known and acknowledged flaws in the game, because then it would have to be rebuilt once those flaws are fixed. Everything the devs have said about the MMR system is more or less correct, people just don't like hearing it.
...Though I found the hockey analogy a little bit clumsy. Still, what he was getting at with it was sound.
See above.
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Your post does not address all the various ways a good looper will die.
This game has no direction and it needs to embrace the fact that it is a TEAM game. Drop the edgy crap about "go it alone"
This one thing would fix a lot of problems and make the results of matches much more enjoyable, and it would promote HEALTHY gameplay
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No, but my first one does. You're not gonna win every game, sometimes you die. If you are a good looper, then you'll be winning more games than you don't- and excepting for actual flaws that have nothing to do with the MMR system like facecamping, if you're losing more games than you're winning how on earth could you be considered a "good" player?
I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that survivors should be encouraged to act as a team more, though I do think it's only tangentially related to this topic. Thankfully, the devs seem to agree, given their comments on SoloQ improvements.
Though, how does the concept of encouraging team play affect the MMR...? Those two things are pretty separated as far as I can see.
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The devs are fine with facecamping, they've said it over and over. Giving survivors ways to deal with it isn't the same as "we don't like it".
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no theyve actively said by now they dont like facecamping. they are perfectly okay with regular/proxy camping, but facecamping is not something theyre happy with
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I believe the last thing they said about it was something to the effect of "we don't like that it's such an attractive option for a lot of players".
Also, that's kind of splitting hairs? The point of them wanting to make it a weaker tactic by giving survivors more ways to deal with it is functionally identical to them not liking it at all for the purposes of my argument.
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Step 1 - Drop the edgy nonsense about "go it alone" and declare that Survivors are a TEAM that depend on each other to survive the horrific killing ground, and all game design choices will take this into account.
Step 2 - Due to this change, we are now able to develop an accurate MMR ranking system. Because we now have direction in how players SHOULD be playing, we can now accurately rank their performances. Players can now be given scores and cool match titles for their team oriented gameplay that leads to escapes. Looping aka total time being chased, unhooks, heals, curses cleansed, protection hits, etc.
Step 3 - Change the results screen to reflect these changes. Add Survivor titles to match a player's performance in that match. For example, someone who was never chased by the killer, but helped repair 4 generators and destroyed a cursed totem, is given the match title "Tactical Genius"...... someone who looped the killer for 3 generators combined total time, and did 2 unhooks and helped heal 3 survivor states, but DIES is given the match title "Heroic Martyr"...... someone who crouched around and was too scared to do gens, barely repaired 1 generator, did no totem cleanses, did 0 unhooks, and was chased once would be given title "Scaredy Cat".. someone who was chased 3 times for a combined chase time of 26 seconds (terrible) and was hooked 3x (dead) and did not help repair even 1 generator or heal or unhook anyone, would be given title "Hook Meat"......... these titles would be just for the ONE match result ending screen...
Step 4 - This will promote healthy gameplay.
Step 5 - This will promote positive attitudes with the match results.
Step 6 - The community will see a drastic change in bitterness.
Step 7 - Game design choices would have much more clarity.
Post edited by SilentShepherd on0 -
Right, so, I agree that the things you're trying to promote in the playerbase would be a healthy change for the game, but why are you highlighting the MMR system for that? Wouldn't it be a better idea to change the Emblem system to reflect the things you want to achieve here?
The MMR system isn't a progression system, it's not going to show the players anything regardless of how well they did. What you're looking at there is the emblem/grade system, and your proposed changes would be a fantastic change to that system! I'd love to see players incentivised to play more altruistically, it's more engaging for everyone involved, even the killer.
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And once again instead of asking WHY it is an attractive option they instead look for ways to "fix" the issue that cause even more problems.
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Where are you getting that from? They have said literally nothing about how they're approaching this, from the angle of what questions they're asking OR what kind of approach they're going to take to fix it.
I'm sure you're implying that killers only facecamp because of the balance of the game, but that's obviously not true. Some killers, maybe, but certainly not all.
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This. They want to do something about it but it's a very tricky thing to fix.
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Considering how they tried to fix facecamping through multiple method and retracted it because those were abusable, I think they aren't doing something stupid.
Well.. I hope so...
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Because AFTER we fix these problems, then the game will be ready for a real Ranking system with competitive play and ranked games, with division placements.
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...Why on earth would we want that?
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If you don't know the answer to that....
are you new to online gaming?
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Not at all, and that's exactly why I know trying to make your game as e-sports friendly as possible isn't always the right call.
There's no reason to assume that DBD would be ready for a competitive mode even after the changes you promoted, there are still a lot of balance issues that make DBD played competitively very, very boring. At its core, the game just isn't designed for it.
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Dying does not feel as bad anymore. You died for your team, and the game takes it into account, rewards you, and displays your score and a cool title so every player in the lobby know what you did for the team.
This alone would increase survivor morale in every game and dying would not be such a bitter experience anymore. Fun would increase, and healthy gameplay would increase.
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That's called playing in a SWF.
Solo Q is more like a battle royal. Especially if the killer turns out to be really skilled. You do whatever it takes to survive. If it involves stabbing your team in the back, well that's the game.
It's just like real life, the team starts out cooperating and then as people start dying it usually takes a turn for the dark side. I would say I kill a fair amount of survivors as a survivor regularly. And the game literally encourages me to do it, go read the perk descriptions for Yun-Jin Lee.
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Rome wasn't built in a day. I cannot allow negative people like you to dampen my positive, forward thinking and visions.
Dead by Daylight can be a competitive game where players can have Ranked games and division placements, e-sports, etc.
This alone would replace the horrific bloodpoint grinding method that they have in place right now.
The game's playerbase would grow tremendously, and thus more skin sales and DLC sales, and BHVR would have more and more resources to pour into the game.
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Solo queue is usually the MOST popular attraction in any multiplayer game. There are many, many, many players who play Solo queue. I am one of them. We don't all have multiple friends to play SWF with all day. People come home from school, or work, or whatever, and are able to fire up a game and not wait on anyone.
Besides, DBD does not have to go full Solo queue. It could allow a maximum of 2 SWF's to enter the Solo queue. So matchmaking would pair 2 SWF's with 2 solo queues... or 4 solo queues together. in a "Solo/SWF queue"
And your point about Yun-Jun Lee's perk was already addressed in my previous posts.
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Right, but- why.
What would be achieved by having DBD be a competitive, e-sport game? What is the benefit of that kind of approach towards the game?
You're skipping a step by just saying it can be, you haven't really laid any foundation for why it should be.
The game's playerbase wouldn't inherently grow at all just because it has a competitive mode, and certainly not tremendously. I also don't see the connection between a competitive mode and the bloodpoint grind, those two things would be completely separate...?
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The benefits of a game having e-sport tournaments is self-evident.
You ask why? Don't you want DBD to be a better game? to have more money to fund more staff and take DBD to levels never seen before? DBD can be a lot more than what we have now. A lot more.
And a ranked system with division placements would replace the bloodpoint grinding method. What I mean by this, is, once you already have your chosen Survivor with every perk, and even P3. Now what? What is the point of keeping players to grind more DBD? Aside from the "Gotta catch em all" mindset and wanting to turn every Survivor into P3.... which let's face it, the grind is horrific and I don't see myself doing that. I have my one or two survivors who are P3 and have every Survivor Perk, and that's it.
At that point, people will only play when they feel like a game or two or three. But, if you introduce a ranking system with division placements, now BHVR will have a lot more players play a lot more DBD because they are trying to grind into a higher division. More active playerbase. Lower queue times. More attractive game. Playerbase will grow as a result. More skin and DLC sales. BHVR grows. DBD is funded better. Etc.
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Well it doesn't really address that DBD is not a game where you can carry. You can only carry if the killer decides to commit to you the entire game. They can decide to leave you to generators and find someone less capable at looping, and then you are powerless. Your team can be murdered with no meaningful input from you whatsoever.
I play as a team when it's beneficial. I have had games where at 5 gens left, with me starting the match off by holding W to the nearest gen, all 3 of my teammates are downed and hooked. I just let them die, no way we are winning that game and it's going to be musical chairs for who gets the hatch. So I will ensure it's me in that scenario. And I think even the killer commented on how cold blooded that was because it was a TTV but then he said "that was the correct play" after I got out.
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E-sports events only bring in viewers and players if they're popular, and they tend to get popular if they're exciting to watch. DBD played optimally isn't- that's why tournaments have to put so many custom rules in place, to try and force players to actually interact in a manner that's fun to watch. DBD would have to change dramatically on a fundamental level before it'd be ready for that on its own.
Of course I want DBD to be a better game. A ranked mode doesn't inherently equal "better", that's my point. Instead of pouring time and effort and resources into that, they could actually improve the game in a myriad of ways.
That... doesn't replace the bloodpoint grinding method, it just caps the bloodpoint grinding method. You still have to go through the horrific grind in order to get there in the first place, and that only applies to survivors; killers actually do have to grind on every single killer they want to actually play.
As for people wanting to grind into a higher division... grades. That's what grades are for. If you want to argue that getting a higher grade should be more impactful, I totally agree, but that's a million miles away from a ranked mode.
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If a Killer respects your looping and decides not to chase you... now you can do free gens. Whenever killer comes back to stop you, he has to chase you. Or, he can kick the gen, and walk away. At which point, you go back to fixing it.
You can help your team either way.
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Except NO ONE WANTS THIS TO BE SEEN AS A COMPETITIVE GAME! The difference between your visions and the building of Rome is that Rome was built by competent people. You're just making this game everything its not supposed to be.
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From what we have seen, that would not matter to BHVR.
They can have a thousand resources, endless pages of feedback and suggestions...it doesn't matter. They will still mess things up and do things that obviously should not be done.
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Not implementing the changes shepard's suggesting is going to be one of the few things BHVR could do right.
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And the changes I suggested would make DBD more exciting. It would banish the toxic selfish gameplay of "hiding and wait for team to die".
It would promote heroic, highlight reel plays.
Picture this. An e-sports announcer is commentating a match.
"Oh no, SilentShepherd is in trouble here. He is injured, and he's been hooked twice already.... oh no it looks like he is going to go down here..... but wait, jesterkind!! Jesterkind swoops in and takes the protection hit!!! WOW!! WHAT A PLAY!! Shepherd is getting away!! What a fantastic play by jesterkind!!! The killer is chasing him now! And jester hasn't been hooked yet, so he can sacrifice a hook to save his fellow survivor, wow!!
All game design choices would be based around turning DBD into this type of team oriented gameplay. etc.
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Unfortunately, that philosophy of "screw your opinion, we will ruin that thing anyway" applies to every single member of this community, including those who share actual good and deserving ideas.
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Its true
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Except none of the changes you've suggested actually affected the win condition. It's a good idea to promote active, altruistic, heroic plays for everyday matches because that's more fun and engaging, but if players are playing to win, which is what a competitive mode and e-sports tournaments would be, they're going to ignore all of that and play efficiently.
Split up on gens, always bring the strongest tools for speeding them up, run away from the killer immediately to delay getting into chase, predrop pallets and continue holding W... those are the most efficient ways to play the game and they're boring. Obviously it's a good idea to incentivise doing other things regularly, but in a competitive setting the only incentive is to win. You'd have to change huge swaths of the game to make it any different, far beyond the scope of anything you've mentioned so far.
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And what do you want to tell us now with this post? That players with higher MMR are something better? Since no one can see their MMR, I would suggest focusing on the fun and not the MMR. Because, high MMR or low MMR.... it won't do you any good in the end and posts like this don't do anything.
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I think SBMM testing were there and at that time game just broke due to killer/survivor ratio.
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Of course it affected the win condition. Although we should define what a win is. But let's use the current standard of kills/escapes.
In the scenario earlier, as the game stands today, where I was injured and on death hook... nobody is taking that protection hit for me (barring Tome challenges or WGLF farming). I am going to be downed and dead. That is almost a certainty. So that's a +1K for killer.
However, with these suggestions, jesterkind swooped in and took the protection hit for me. This type of gameplay would be designed and encouraged by BHVR. So that +1K for Killer, is now 0K for killer. Jesterkind is now being chased, and he's never been hooked this match so he can take the hook if caught.
This affected the Kills/Escapes for the match. This affects the win conditions.
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I agree that your changes would help for regular gameplay, since people like being rewarded and people generally are more interested in having fun than playing optimally. So, with your changes, yes! A player will swoop in to take a protection hit so that their teammate can hopefully escape and the game will reward them for that with a cool title at the endgame, more BP, maybe some other incentives we can brainstorm.
But none of those rewards are there for a competitive mode. The goal there isn't to have fun, or to maximise BP, or play to a points system. The goal there is to win. Your emblem score doesn't matter in an e-sports match, after all, the only thing that matters is whether you win or not. With an actual win-based incentive system, the kind that people wrongly assume MMR currently is, there's no reason to play it flashy- if you go for a cocky play and fail, you're actually punished for it by losing rank in the ladder.
So you'll play it optimally. Trust me, I've been in ranked ladder systems, it is not the place that flashy and interesting things happen- you play the meta, and you play optimally, or you get flamed by your team.
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Ranked divisions and e-sports can have two separate win parameters.
Remember, BHVR decides what is or is not a win condition. Decisions can be made to get where we need to go.
Solo queue players grinding ranked, can have their personal performance judged to climb or descend ranks. But an e-sports situation, we would create separate parameters on what is or is not a win, because it would be a 4 man SWF correct? So in that case, a win would be defined by K/E
But again, if we define a win based on kills/escapes in the current meta of DBD... then a 3 escape, 1 death survivor team is a win, yes?
so.. affecting how many of your teammates escape IS a win. Is it not? If your heroic highlight reel play caused 3 survivors to escape instead of only 2.... is that not a competitive play that affected the win condition for your team? And would entirely be reasonable to do in a competitive/ranked environment??
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The win condition has been the same throughout the entirety of the game's existence. The win condition for the survivor is to escape, the win condition for the killer is either a 3K or a 4K, that's the only ambiguity.
As for your point about the highlight reel play: "If". If it doesn't, you messed up and everyone's chance at winning just plummeted due to how much pressure the killer got.
Compare that to playing it safe and optimal, which has a much lower chance of messing up that badly. Even if you go down, you're away from your teammates, who are all on generators advancing their objective.
If your only goal is to win because you're in a competitive mode, which of those two tactics are you going to pick?
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Ranked divisions and e-sports can have two separate win parameters.
Ranked players grinding ranked, can have their personal performance judged to climb or descend ranks.
But an e-sports situation, we would create separate parameters on what is or is not a win, because it would be a 4 man SWF correct? So in the case of e-sports and organized competition, a win would be defined by K/E. Thus problem solved.
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