What exactly is antiloop and what isn't?
I'm genuinely interested.
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Maaaaybe Pinhead if you are really, really good with the chains and have the right add ons. But that's a reach I admit.
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Logically, antiloop must be killers who fundamentally make looping unsafe. I'd buy Pyramid Head and Nemesis as proper antiloop killers since pallets and windows don't matter to them, but most of the time people use that term to describe just... any power that can be used in chase, seemingly.
I guess I'd buy Nurse and Blight as like, pseudo-antiloop in that they don't have to loop at all, but that seems like a technicality.
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Nurse is definitely an antiloop, but is blight antiloop when he can't do anything against windows/palettes just like other killers?
I'm not sure about spirit, I think theoretically she is an antiloop as nothing matters against a 10.0 killer.
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The ability to shut down loops with there power. So when you can't loop them or cant loop them like normal m1 killers. It's the reason people hate Trickster cuz at certain loops you are dead. Lots of killers have some form of anti-loop just some way more powerful than others. Artist, Nurse, Blight, trickster, Slinger, Huntress, list goes on.
people wouldn't complain so much if only 3 killers were anti-loop.
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Going by other discussions "hold W" anti-loop is any killer that cannot be looped to get away, so the best strategy is to run when you hear terror radius.
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Pinhead can't really deal with truly safe palette even if he hits the chain consistently I think.
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I don't think he can go to the other side of the window in a sec in every situation, survivors can go other windows in that time too.
That sliding tech doesn't work on every tiles neither, there is plenty of maps where he will bump to things while sliding.
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Antiloop killers are those with a power that essentially put you in a lose/lose situation when vaulting a window or using a pallet (the only tools that survivors have against killers) because you will get hit regardless of what you do, and therefore the only "counterplay" is run as soon as you hear the terror radius and just waste as much of the killers time as possible by holding W before you eventually go down
Pyramid head, nemesis, artists are examples. Although weaker, Deathslinger is still an example of antiloop (only at windows though).
Trickster is kind of antiloop as well because he suffers little to no penalty when missing his power (unlike huntress that offers valid counterplay) and it's just a matter of time until you go down. Twins too because victor can hit through pallets and windows and his hitbox is so wide and he's so fast that it can't almost be dodged at all (i.e. if victor misses, it's most likely because the killer ######### up, there was no skill input from the survivor)
Essentially anti loop killers are those killers where the survivors overall skill doesn't count much in the chase: it's either the killer is good at using/faking their power and you go down quickly, or is bad and gives you get a free win.
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To add to this an my post. Would like to mention Clown. His bottles slow you and impair vision but the most important part of his bottles (IMO) is is forces survivors to slow vault which allows some crazy hits you should not get. It would honestly be easy to say who don't have some form of anti loop honestly. Some are just so weak at it so not talked about as much.
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He can't deal with actual safe palette though, but works good with windows.
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It’s kind of subjective but to me anything that helps a killer catch a survivor who tries to loop a tile is anti-loop.
- Doctor blocking the ability to vault or drop a pallet
- Ranged killers that can shoot over pallets and vaults
- Clown and Freddy and Pinhead slowing down survivors at loops
- Blight and Bubba and Victor and to some extent Hillbilly’s hyper speed. Also Pig’s ambush somewhat
- Nurse ignoring obstacles
- Spirit’s speed and invisibility
- Hag or Trapper putting a trap by a vault spot
So most killers have at least some anti-loop capability in varying degrees. Some examples that don’t (mainly stealth killers)
- Ghost Face doesn’t really help stop looping per se, he just ambushes people so they don’t have time to get to a loop in the first place before a hit or down
- Wraith likewise ambushes and gets hits before a loop. The extent of his anti-loop would be maybe blocking off someone using his speed before they can get to a window, etc, but that’s still more just keeping them from reaching a loop before he can attack
- I mentioned Pig above but really her Ambush is kind of meh at anti-looping. Her main strength is really sneaking up and getting a hit before they can get to a loop in the first place and also slowing the game down with her traps.
- Legion has anti-loop against healthy survivors, but basically no anti-loop ability at all against injured ones .
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I would not call clown (and neither Freddy or Pinhead) anti loop though. He's surely got a strong 1v1 kit but he needs to use his power, he cannot fake it and still get a hit unlike antiloopers
Replying to @dugman , most of the killers he mentioned need to use their power to get a hit, otherwise they're just m1s. Anti loopers are those that don't need to use it, but can just fake it too to put the survivors in a lose/lose scenario
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Don't matter. The point of anti-loop is stopping loops. Forcing a survivor to pre-drop is stopping the loop.....loop him normal you get hit. That simple.
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That's zoning. Which Clown can still do. I fake a bottle toss all the time. he can stop a loop and hit you if you don't pre-drop. EZ
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Exactly this.
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In that case, I think game doesn't work without antiloops, right?
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The more I think about it, the more vague it becomes
At first I thought it's a good umbrella term to describe the newer designed killers, the ones who are designed to punish animation locks like windows, dropping pallets and so on. Deathslinger, Pyramid Head, Nemesis, Demogorgon (To a certain extent), Twins (You can't loop victor really).
But then it dawned on me that Huntress has been in the game since early on and her power is basically similar to that of the 'anti-loop' killers. She heavily punishes animation locks but she's not called 'unfair' like some of the others listed above. Perhaps it's because Huntress has to commit to it and can't just spam it for free zoning but at the same time a lot of Huntress players just hold hatchets to achieve the same end. Why do people think Trickster is unfair but not Huntress?
Then you also have movement speed reduction killers - Clown, Freddy & Pinhead. Their powers are techincally 'anti-loop' by design because they hinder survivors, making running tiles harder or forcing pallet drops earlier. You can throw Doctor in here as well, his power doesn't slow you down but it prevents you from doing actions that keep loops going.
Killers like Trapper & Hag can counter loops but their power isn't intentionally designed to counter loops, it's more so that the nature of their power allows them to shut loops down
Then you have Nurse & Blight. I don't really know what to call them. Nurse is techincally unloopable in the traditional sense.
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All killers need something to help them hit survivors one way or another. If a killer has to chase survivors using no ability and only basic attacks and has no stealth to get them quick hits before a chase starts they’re kind of out of luck since survivors have an edge at loops and vaults and pallets. It’s hard to think of a way to make a killer that could kill survivors quickly enough without having any chase related or stealth related ability.
One killer I forgot above is Meyers. He’s kind of an odd one because he has a bit of stealth being Undetectable at Evil 1 and a small terror radius at Evil 2, so his stealth can help him a get close before a chase starts but not quite as much as the other stealth killers (unless you play Jump Scare Meyers). But if he does get a swing it’s often an instant down or even instant death if he’s using Tombstone. So he’s a rare killer with no anti-loop to speak of and isn’t a full stealth killer but who relies on making basic attacks with normal movement speed more deadly.
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Huntress has a loud audible queue when she starts her wind up, which takes a lot of time too, and is substantially slowed down while holding the hatchet. If the hatchet misses, the survivors have again plenty of time to move and adjust their positions. On the other hand, if a knife misses, whatever? Trickster is like spamming them non stop
Clown, Freddy, Pinhead, just like Nurse, need to use their power to get a hit, they cannot fake their power. Blight is either an M1 or offers enough information to the survivors for both parties to make a valid choice on how to move. This is why I wouldn't define them anti loopers.
Trapper & Hag are exactly as you put them.
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A lot of people talk about killers forcing you into lose/lose situations and Huntress can do that, personally I don't think she's unfair but when people call the other killers who do the same thing unfair it bothers me
Pyramid Head's punishment of the damned charge up/cooldown is almost identical to the huntress hatchet windup yet PH is called 'boring' and 'unfun'. Their projectile basically functions identically in practice.
As for Trickster, i agree the spammability of his power is what makes him shine but he has to land way more hits to do the same amount of damage as a Huntress. An animation lock for Trickster is like 3/4 knives, an animation lock for Huntress is basically guaranteed damage
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Pyramid Head is 4.6 and when holding his power is 4.4, huntress slows down to something like 3.2 when holding the hatchet. That's a huge difference
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You have a point, there is a diff in movement speeds when charging their powers which makes a difference but In practice, both killers can wind up and get hits during animation locks at roughly the same time making the slower movement speed not really a big deal since again - animation lock. The survivor can't do anything
Huntress also has windup & cooldown addons to make this even easier, PH only has distance increasing addons.
The movement speed can be a deal breaker in many instances, I'm not saying otherwise.
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I understand what you mean but I'm not fully convinced yet. I still think that between "equally skilled" players, huntress offers enough information for both players to be able to make choices that will eventually lead to one having the upper hand on the other.
I don't think this is equally possible with pyramid head, for the speed reason. There are so many nuances at this point that it really becomes subjective, I gave my pov up in my first comment where anti loop essentially means that survivors skill doesn't matter that much, it's more like "does the killer ######### up or not", but others expressed different ideas too (like including clown, doc, Freddy etc in the category, while i wouldn't)
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That's a totally respectable opinion to hold!
Like I said I don't find huntress unfair or fun to face, I just find it odd that people often complain about the lose/lose situations from the newer killers while not acknowledging the ones that came before them.
A lot of it is subjective and down to experience of course, face a killer enough times you'll figure out things you can do against em.
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- Offensive anti-loop (They counter loops and down survivors without using the basic attack. Counter pre-droped pallet): Pyramid, Artist, Huntress, Trickster
- Semi-offensive anti-loop (They counter loops and can take the first health state but needs the basic attack or a secondary ability to down survivors. Can play around pre-droped pallet): Legion, Slinger, Plague
- Slowdown anti-loop (They slow survivor's mouvement speed, prevent them from vaulting or at least fast-vaulting. Cannot damage without M1 attack. Can struggle against pre-droped pallet): Doctor, Clown, Freddy, Cenobite
My personal definition ☺️
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Like I said, the definition is subjective, that’s not how I define it.
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That's an interesting take too
Don't forget nemesis in the first category
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When I think of anti-loop I think of killers that have some kind of attack or ability that hits across loops/over pallets (eg. Artist, Pyramid Head, Huntress especially if it's a short loop that's basically worthless against her) or killers that can deny pallets or windows like Doctor's shock or Pinhead's chains.
Nurse technically is anti-loop? But she kinda gets her own category anyway.
I don't really consider killers like Blight and Spirit anti-loop, Blight just has high mobility around loops (and across the map) which makes him really good and Spirit is basically the same except you can't see her doing it.
This isn't a comprehensive list of every killer but that's just some examples.
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A lot of killers in this game have anti-loop, just not amazing ones.
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Anti-loop killers are the ones who can't be countered by mindgaming at pallets and windows. Only way to win against them is to hold w and hope your teammates to gen rush.
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I think there's a difference between Anti-Loop killers and Hard-Loop killers. I've seen a few people calling Huntress, Triangle Head and Huntress Anti-Loop killers, but I don't think they are. I think they are only Hard-Loop. Real Anti-Loop killers in my opinion are killers that are specifically designed to make looping more difficult, just like these. Except for Artist. But I don't think she was intended to be an Anti-Loop killer, she just happened to be a really good one.
- Doctor: Prevents you from vaulting and dropping pallets,
- Freddy: Slows you down.
- Clown: Slows you down.
- Pinhead: Slows you down.
- Artist: Literally punishing you for looping.
I know Nurse is a thing, but honestly, I don't think she's an anti-loop killer. But she's not a loop killer either so... idk what type of killer she is. Let's just call her The Floaty Zoom Zoom Lady xd
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