Playing without slowdown
So I've heard alot of people say that you don't really need slowdown perks. Scott jund has even c said downing Survivors is the beat gen regression you can have. So I've been playing demo with no slowdown.
Its been bad unless I'm playing baby Survivors it doesn't matter how fast or frequent I don't Survivors gens still fly.
My last match I was at 5 gens and had 4 hooks with minute 50 it was 1 gen 6 hooks. Now to be fair I did spend 20 seconds at a gen that bbq said there was a survivor but thats including walking there to right before getting back into chase. This was the most extreme chase but they have all been about the same even when adding pressure by downing without some fourm of gen slowdown it doesn't seem to matter how good I do gens are going to finish everytime.
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Downing people is the best slowdown when used in conjunction with other slowdown perks.
If you were to not use any slowdown perks, but down people extremely fast, you'd likely have a similar game to if you ran 4 slowdown's but didn't spread pressure out and had long chases.
You need to do both.
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Generators will be done no matter what it's just an inevitability. If you want to delay that as much as possible I personally recommend gen freezing perks such as Dead Lock, Corrupt Intervention and the new Dead Man's Switch. The new perk from Sadako: "Merciless Storm" will also be quite nice if you fancy gen freeze.
Otherwise your only real options are Ruin Undying which is risky due to Hexes and requires constantly pressuring Survivors off of gens or utilizing regression perks like Pop and whatnot. My personal favorite is Pop and other perks that incentivize you to go after other survivors and rewards you for HOOKING. Pain Resonance is amazing too and the upcoming Brine perk from Sadako is also going to be great especially when paired with Dragon's Grip. I'm telling you all right now, Brine + Dragon's Grip + Pop has some disgusting potential and let's you snowball pressure off of downs / hooks.
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I understand and it went about as well as I thought it would. I find it fun though that people swear you don't need slowdown. Base regression is so bad without 2 slowdown perks it really doesn't matter hoe good you do against decent survivors because gens will get done before you can get 2k. I really don't like the fact that half your build has to be slowdown or the best case scenario is a 2k(not counting baby survivors I shouldn't be playing in the first place)
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You do not need slowdown if you play Bubba. Otherwise, I mean, it couldn't hurt, really.
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I normally run Corrupt,deadlock,pain resonance,DMS. I like it because I don't have to worry to much about gens and can focus on the thing I can actually control chase.
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But that is 1 out of 26 killers and that's playing a different playstyle then the "general" that most people will use.
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Here's the thing. It can work. I've seen enough streamers do it to know that it can in fact be done.
However... no slowdown means 2 things. First, you're probably going to need to do a lot of slugging to make it work. Second, you'll almost always either win big or lose big because you haven't got any sort of safety net. Either you get downs fast enough to slow the Survivor's progress to a crawl and win or you don't and lose terribly with no middle ground.
So... for me personally... I'm gonna... not do that... usually. The closest I've ever gotten to that is running Plague with Corrupt, Infectious, Tinkerer, and Fire Up because the Bloodweb was incredibly unkind to me. Killer is stressful enough as it is... I don't need to bring a build that makes it worse.
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Corrupt is lowkey one of the best slowdown perks in the game, though.
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Fair point. I guess that shows that I'm pretty much always running regression perks. Sometimes several. What can I say... I prefer longer trials.
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What happens when killers play without slowdown against decent survivors can be seen on Otz last stream. He asked the survivors to gen rush and they did exactly that. He got 1 hook before the gates were powered.
It's not a coincidence that 4 out of the top 5 most used killer perks are gen slowdown perks.
Killers shouldn't be forced to dedicate half their build to slowdown.
Devs saw the stats and came to the conclusion, that we need more slowdown perks...
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I play without slowdown, and my games are quite balanced. Sometimes I get gen slammers but most of the time I will end up getting everyone sacrificed by end game. Of course I also get those god survivors that 4 man escape with the classic 4 min gen rush haha.
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I agree as well as one big issue is slowdown perks are balanced around there been multiple in a build which makes a single slowdown practical use which means you have to run at least 2 to have effective slowdown. It's a bad design combined with a 4 perk limit. I've said before slowdown should be limited to 1 and balanced accordingly that way a killer doesn't have to dedicate half there build to slowdown.
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Do you tunnel and slug constantly?
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Depends on the survivors. I dont usually play by the rulebook though so I suppose you can say that lol. I just play to my enjoyment and of course I expect the survivors to do the same.
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The main slowdown perk I use is corrupt. I've matches where I don't use it and a majority of the time i lose 2-3 gens, even if I have an amazing chase where I down very quickly. I used to take corrupt pop, but then I realized how little value I was actually getting from pop because I kicked gens maybe twice a match at most.
A majority of my slowdown came from applying pressure. To multiple survivors.
I actually had one build I used on Freddy today that was corrupt, furtive chase, make your choice, and dark devotion. It worked extremely well and I got the 4k without having to sweat. And they had even gotten 3 gens done.
But corrupt is one perk that I won't take off. It's the difference between getting 2-3 hooks in before the first gen pops, and walking across the map and watching two gens pop before you can even make it to them.
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The issue with several slowdown perks is, that survivors see it a auto win for the killer, if he dedicates his full build to slowdown.
However, not dedicating the build to slowdown is a auto loss.
Which leads to frustrated players that start to camp, tunnel and slug in order to have a chance. Which leads to even more frustrated players.
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I seem to have the complete opposite effect. I don't have much down time in between chases, chases are ending pretty quick around 20 seconds average(love STBFL) I'm kicking and defending when necessary not much kicking though. Yet I haven't had better then a 2k unless I'm playing against survivors I could probably no perk.
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You're kidding yourself if you think killers don't need slowdown, which is why it's bad that survivors that believe that are coming up with all the balance decisions.
P.S. The variety of slowdown perks in the game now does not translate to killers getting "more slowdown". You have 4 perk slots, as always; To add 1 new perk, you have to remove another.
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It's on the survivors to poorly position themselves, otherwise for every one you down three have free reign on gens. Comms can also negate time that actions would normally grant against solos.
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Right and there's even the possibility that the new slowdown could not work with the current meta.
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I play Demo (And Nemesis) with BBQ, Tinkerer, Discordance and Save the Best since I find information perks are really useful although with the new perks might use brine and merciless.
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Brine can still be one tapped to stop and merciless I'm not to sure about since it's just normal skill checks and they aren't hard to hit but it might be worth a try
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Just down people within 15seconds 4head
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With a low mobility M1 killer playing without slowdown is a lost game unless you're playing against bad survivors, and low mobility ones with good chase potential or good powers (Nemesis, Artist, Plague, Pyramid Head, Pinhead and Bubba mostly) will have a hard time without slowdowns but still can win (sometimes).
I tried sometimes with M1 killers and when you achieve the third hook there are only 2 generators remaining usually, or 3 generators remaining with one of them quite advanced in progression. The only more or less viable build without regression is one with a lot of information perks (aura reading and perks like Discordance, Tinkerer, Surveillance,...) and it doesn't work most of the times specially if you're playing a bad map for killers.
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PR + DMS is pretty good combo for slowdown. And last 2 perks i am using for information or anti-loop. Full slowdown builds are failing usually because if you can not end chases fastly, your perks will not help you.
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I play the strongest killers without slowdowns, and I rarely lose (nurse and spirit, I don't play blight), and by that I mean 3-4man outed. I don't slug and don't tunnel intentionally (in the sense that if I encounter the same survivor again that's on them, but I don't look specifically for them).
Some slowdown on weaker killers is ok, but I don't want a whole build around it and I usually perform decently anyway. Personally I find slowdowns really dull and I'd be bored to death on the survivors. I prefer faster paced games, whether I win or lose, and personally I find chase perks or information perks much more fun
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Yeah. I was excited for Eruption. Don't know why. It sees no play.
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No slow downperks means you should be a strong chaser / down people fast, so that you can slug the hell out of every one. If you can down someone and immediately chase a 2nd survivor and get them down before/a little after they pick up the 1st survivor, that's a fantastic slow down.
If you can consistently do this in most of your games, you don't need slowdowns. Otherwise, view slowdowns as practice for not needing slowdowns. I'd say most killers need slowdowns just to keep up just because the level of skill required for this is very high.
I wouldn't trust Scott's opinion on this. Sure, he plays the game a lot so he knows a lot. But this also keeps him disconnected with the average player. He doesn't really understand (or consider) the average skill level when he says things like this. 90%+ of killers won't be able to play without slowdown (, unless they're a highly mobile killer and good with that killer, too).
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imo what scott said is kinda ignorant. of course you don't need slowdown perks if you're decent at blight/nurse/spirit with MDR + DCB, and it also depends on the map. to say that a trapper/deathslinger/wraith dont need slowdown perks is just silly at this point.
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There was a Dev quote from early on in this game's life that essentially stated: 'if Generator Slowdown becomes mandatory, then that is a problem and we need to make some changes.'
Years later, some reshuffling in the Dev team, and suddenly: mandatory gen slow down isn't all the much of a concern to the people in charge.
When you ask how things like Boons, Validation, and terrible Map redesigns happen; just remember that. Priorities have changed, and in a fairly obvious direction.
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Ah yes, the very mean devs fixing killers getting undeserved hits by adding that horrible thing called hit validation, which is present in every single multiplayer game and backs up who actually did the action first, without giving preference to a party or the other
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They added Hit Validation to Dead Hard and Pallets. Both of these things are Survivor-only features.
Where's the hit validation for killer powers? For Plague's puke? For Doctor's shock?
The complaint is not that Validation exists. The complaint is that it exists for SURVIVORS and not for killers.
That'd be like adding Validation for Ryu but not for Ken. It's an embarrassment.
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The thing is I was getting extremely fast downs. I had almost no down time in-between chases but survivors weren't instant unhooking and working through gens I even had multiple people on hooks in multiple games yet they where still 3-4 man outing more 3s became I would normally get at least 1k.
Omg thank you. I feel like alot of people don't realize how out of touch most streamers are to your average player. Don't get me wrong I still value there opinions but there's something that they say that as an average I find bs. Imo you should always take there opinion with a grain of salt. I just said Scott because I know he's vocal about chase been the ultimate slowdown. The man's only played for 6 years and has over 5k hrs. I should have no problem with my 2+ years and 800hrs replicating his results right.
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I notice you didn't say anything about the busted boon or bad map design. Plus hit validation was implemented half a$$ it was about as good as BF 4022 hit validation.
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I played against a plague yesterday and watched her puck hit my upper body from left to right I mean I could tell it clearly hit me and it didn't infect me. It wasn't at a pallet or window I was out in the dead a$$ open and it just didn't count.
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I think you weren't doing as good as you think you were doing, if that was the case. If you are getting extremely fast downs and have multiple people on the hook, you have insane pressure. Something about your story is off.
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Is Agitation,Starstruck,Speedcola & BBQ/Lightborn a good slowdown build for Trickster?
(Can someone make a perk edit that changes Iron Maiden to Speed Cola?)
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Not really survivors can leave teammates on hook and finish gens before they get to the next stage and without regression an gen progress is going to stay.
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Don't use merciless storm lmao it's 10x worse than tinkerer
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If you're going to use Merciless Storm I'd recommend using it with Tinkerer that way you can force people off the Gen to guarantee the stall. I still think it has great stall potential since it can potentially trigger on all gens at least once.
I'll admit though, I'll probably only use this combination on Artist who can actually interrupt survivors from across the map/through walls to force Merciless Storm in these scenarios
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So you're letting them get a gen to 90% after a tinkerer proc to maybe block the gen for 20s? You know DMS is a thing right this perk is just awful
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I dont use slowdown the majority of the time so I can use perks I actually enjoy like Blood Warden or Shadowborn
And just like if I were to use slowdown, I win some and I lose some.
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While I agree with Scott in most of the things he said, he also should've mentioned that you need either to be really good or fast killers like billy, blight, nurse, other killers will struggle.
Also no slowdown means that you need to know when to slug and when to tunnel(sometimes not always).
There is not a reason not to use at least 1 slowdown perk, maybe corrupt by itself, bbq and chase perks.
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I only run Oppression as a slowdown perk and it does me fine, one kick every 80 or so seconds.
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But kicking gens is such a waste of time it takes like 2 seconds to kick a gen and the regression rate is 1/4 a charge per second. It takes a survivor .2 of a second to undo that 2 seconds of work and I find that most the time survivors will hit the difficult skill check.
On a positive note the new perk call of brine sounds right up your ally.
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I think whatever chase perk or even hex perk would work better than oppression.
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It's just an idea for possible synergies. I'll just stop suggesting anything since everyone is a buzzkill around here.
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I've had a lot of gen rushers lately. I normally use corrupt invention and Pop. I could go all 4 perks for slowdowns but i've noticed it doesnt really matter anymore.
Survivors have even started letting their teammates go to second stage so they can rush the gens faster and sadly it works since i dont tunnel. Though ive had so many rough matches lately playing fair im starting to change my mind about tunneling.
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The only perk I use that is technically a slowdown perk is Corrupt Intervention. But I don't use it because of the slowdown, I use it to force survivors towards me so I can have a strong early game Because that's how put pressure on the survivors. Combine it with Lethal Pursuer and I usually have 5 hooks before the first Gen Pop.
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