Boons, should be destroyable?
SHOULD BOONS BE DESTROYABLE. I SEE SOME PEOPLE SAY NO, CAUSE IT WOULD MAKE THEM "WORTHLESS" BUT IS THAT NOT JUST THE SAME AS A HEX PERK? IF THE KILLER TAKES A HEX PERK, YOU CAN DESTROY IT, SO WHATS THE DIFFERENCE. IF IM PLAYING SURVIVOR OR KILLERS ALL I SEE IS BOON: CIRCLE OF HEALING, AND I FEEL THE KILLER REALLY HAS NO COUNTER PLAY TO IT. SO MAYBE EITHER LET THEM BE DESTROYABLE OR MAKE HEX PERKS WORK LIKE BOONS, AND THEN THE KILLER AND SURVIVOR CAN JUST TAKE TURNS HEXING AND BOONING.
(SOMEHOW EVERYTHING GOT SWITCHED TO CAPS, AND IM NOT RETYPING IT ALL LOL)
Boons, should be destroyable? 94 votes
46 votes
16 votes
16 votes
16 votes
Comments
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YES
Boons are fundamentally broken.
People are always saying stuff like "boons are fine, it's CoH that's broken," but that's the issue, the others are fine because their effects aren't worth bringing the perk, you only see them if people are using CoH anyway.
You simply cannot make perks on the current boon system without them either being bad or broken. If they're a decent effect they work as a decent perk for 4 players with infinite uptime. It's why we're seeing crap like the new haste one, because if the haste is anywhere close to worth using, it's going to be in every match breaking every chase.
They need some fundamental counterplay that isn't like plugging a leak with your finger, then repeating every time a new leak opens up. Eventually the dam is gonna break no matter how well you plug them.
9 -
NO
just do bones <3
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YES
My problem with COH, is It give self care to the TEAM, which Claudette has a perk that just does that to her. And it speeds up healing, which there is a perk that does that. So its 2 perks in 1, and for the whole team. and cannot be stopped except by "doing bones" that they just put right back up. And this is a part I don't think to many people think about, it also severely hurts all Hex totems, since now all survivors are just running around booning all totems.
The only other thought I had was make it longer to Boon and resurrect them. Like make it 28 seconds, double the time of destroying them?
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NO
I am once again reminding everyone that CoH is not the only boon perk, and any nerfs one thinks of to try and bring CoH in line must consider how that nerf would affect the other boon perks.
Since CoH is so strong mostly because it ignores the way boons normally work (requiring the killer to be nearby), nerfing boons as a concept isn't going to do all that much to fix CoH and it'll ruin the other three. You have to fix the perk, not the mechanic.
3 -
COH, JUST NEEDS MAJOR NERFS
If they can be permanently broken then make their effects map wide. Otherwise they'd be useless.
CoH just needs to have the self care ability removed while reverting to the 100% heal speed boost.
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YES
Yes, if survs can break hexes, killers should be able to break boons.
Or maybe we can let killers re-light their hexes? All is fair, right? lol
But I also agree that CoH is the problem here. It should be nerfed to the point where it can largely be offset by killer perks, or removed entirely. Even after the nerf, it's still busted.
7 -
YES
Saying no is just being a #########
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This is a ridiculous argument because the Killer doesnt have 3 other Killers running around helping to do the bones.
7 -
YES
I agree though, The other boons are not the problem ATM, but more could be. But man COH needs something more drastic done to it. Maybe just pick 1 of its effect, Either self care (I would still not like this) or keep just the team healing faster. Or as I have seen suggested, maybe a cooldown. After someone heals with this boon it deactivated for 60 seconds.
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NO
To be honest, I'm a killer main and now that COH has had a nerf already I think it's fine. Having the ability to put up your boons 1 time as a survivor would make all the boon perks useless and nobody would bring it.
Post edited by TheHunter2529 on0 -
YES
Boons, should probable be global, if they can be destroyed, to balance it out.
I was just thinking though. COH also premotes tunneling in a way. If you know, that an injured person has a 100% chance to just run off and be healed in 10 seconds, Why would you not chase that person down?
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NO
Boons just need a minute cooldown after the killer snuffs the totem.
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MAKE HEX'S WORK LIKE BOONS, AND THEY CAN JUST TAKE TURNS FIGHTING OVER TOTEMS.
I chose last option as I think it could make the game more fun.
4 -
YES
There should be a limited amount of times a boom can be relit or lit, and when those are gone the Boon is destroyed for good.
1 -
COH, JUST NEEDS MAJOR NERFS
Again, absolutely agree ^
The idea that you can balance Boon totems exactly like you balance Hex: Totems is absolutely ridiculous on a multitude of levels. Not only would you be gutting the boons which are reasonably balanced right now (Shadow Step, Exponential, I hear Dark Theory isn't too crazy right now in PTB but we'll see when that goes live, etc.), but you're also treating Boons disproportionately to Hex: Totems.
Think about how Boons are balanced. They were created with multiple Visual and Audio cues in mind so as to PURPOSEFULLY make them easier to discover during a match, as opposed to their darker, hidden, and sinister Hex counterparts. Boon totems are meant to be bright, and attract attention, and the hope that they bring can be snuffed out but relit again. So not only does this idea not work balance wise but it fundamentally contrasts the thematic intentions of the perk.
Not only that, but Boons also have a limited range, whether or not that range is too large or just right is up to plenty debate but the fact of the matter is they are LIMITED.
If boons are going to be treated exactly like hex's I FULLY EXPECT them to be treated like Hex's in EVERY RESPECT. That means zero audio cues, zero visual cues, and zero range limitations. If you aren't willing to commit to your own ideology in this way, then I would say such rhetoric absolutely mistreats boons and only seeks to nerf them into the ground purely out of an intense and thoughtless bias; rather than engage with the mechanic on an intellectually equal playing field as a valid and interesting mechanic.
COH is unbalanced, I absolutely agree. But this is NOT a reference point to say "all boons are therefore unbalanced" that line of logic just doesn't hold up under any kind of actual scrutiny. You cannot possibly convince me that Boon: Exponential is a powerful, much less broken and overpowered perk, and yet you somehow need to justify this in order to push the idea that all boons including exponential should be one-time activation perks.
A widespread change like this does not work because boons do not have suffer from widespread problems, which is what necessitates such a broad brushstrokes change. COH is the ONLY perk anyone ever remotely complains about, and there are PLENTY of solutions to solve that issue that also maintain the integrity of what boons as a whole are meant to be as unique mechanics in their own right.
2 -
COH, JUST NEEDS MAJOR NERFS
No, because a hex covers the entire map like NOED, or Ruin affecting all gens. Boon totems only cover the specific area they are set up in.
I do think the boons need more nerfs though or something like a token system.
. Have to do something to gain tokens (maybe like you have to do altruistic actions for COH tokens or something)
. Only so many tokens per match (that way people wouldn't be able to constantly relight a totem once the killer snuffs it out. They would have to use their tokens wisely.
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YES
That would a great way to fix them!
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Mclean said that boons are an alternative objective for survivors that can hinder or help. Its healthy for the game, the issue is circle of healing might be too oppressive. Its not as oppressive as before but there can still be work added.
I personally believe the totem snuff speed should be a little faster, and killers can also see the blue subtle flame effects just like survivors.
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YES
I personally believe that boons not have their own 'blessing' action - but will automatically bless the first totem that you 'cleanse' - which prevents it from breaking. When the totem is snuffed by the killer, it is destroyed and turned into bones - as usual.
For this, the totem must not be made visible to all survivors. It must have greatly reduced audio and perhaps a complete change to the sound it emanates within its shortened range.
I fully believe that survivors should hold powerful perks that, like hex perks, can be destroyed as a gambling addition to the game.
That CoH perk can be super strong and grant multiple health states to the team, but one the killer takes the time to find and snuff it - it's gone. Survivors will have to be more deliberate with their placement and timing to maximize their benefit.
In addition, making it so that boon totems automatically apply blessing on the first complete cleansing will allow the perks to best synergize with other perks that increase cleansing speed.
There is no killer main that would feel bad if someone went a boon build so long as they could snuff out that totem if they should find it without a loud audio sound.
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YES
The gains that NOED or RUIN bring, while having potential, are nowhere near the potential of CoH specifically. Especially when used across 4 survivors.
Killers have 1 perk slot, survivors have 4. There is no map in the game that will not be covered if all survivors have active boon totems at the same time.
In addition - each killer has about a 40% of their perk being adjacent to a survivor spawn point at the start of a match. Especially at high ranks, many hex perks are cleansed before they can be of any effectual use, this is the gamble. Survivors, however, can pick and choose when and where their blessings are placed - which can be costly to killers to an extreme degree. If you place the boon on the third floor of the library in RPD, the killer simply cannot afford to travel the distance to snuff it - especially if you re-boon it once more. By choosing where and when with discretion - survivors harbor an extreme benefit that can all but guarantee value - unlike Hex totems which are at a profound risk at all times of the game.
1 -
YES
Very true.
But I will remind you that multiple people will run the perk. If you make the boons global - you will run into issues of their perceived benefits becoming redundant. If someone wants to bless a totem at that point, it would be a waste. In addition - it would become all the more difficult for killers to extrapolate the location of the totem through map awareness.
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YES
There's not 3 other killers looking around the map to find the boons while you're in chase like survivors have for hexes, nor are there perks to help find totems on the killer side. A killer can search the map at roughly 1/4 the speed the survivors can and during that time they will be doing nothing else. Meanwhile survivors can split between chase, gens, and totem search. Killers were already on a time crunch before boons let alone after. Survivors have numbers and time on their side.
Its an asym game, the survivor perks should be weaker than a killer perk, not on the same level. Boons should not be as strong as hexes. For 1/16 perk slots you effect the entire team, meanwhile the killer uses 1/4th.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
COH, JUST NEEDS MAJOR NERFS
Exactly. That is what makes "treating boons like Hex's" so dumb, my point was to illustrate how foolish the idea was and you just reiterated that point perfectly. Boons shouldn't be treated like Hex's in any respect whatsoever.
1 -
YES
Feel's bad as Legion lol.
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MAKE HEX'S WORK LIKE BOONS, AND THEY CAN JUST TAKE TURNS FIGHTING OVER TOTEMS.
Can’t, bones come back
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YES
It would not make it worthless, they can find another totem and very rarely the killer will have time to break 5 totems (which would be enough usage anyway).
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NO
The only issue I have with Boons currently is positioning yourself to snuff them is sometimes a bit fiddly. Occasionally the totem is squished between a couple of objects and you have to get yourself just-so to be able to look at it the right way to get the prompt to snuff it out.
Beyond that though the general system is fine. CoH is overpowered, though maybe a bit less so than before its nerf (hard to tell since there’s no data publicly available). The other Boons so far range from ok to kind of meh.
Also I think the devs are missing out right now on exploring the design space of killer perks that interact with Boons and totems. For instance, perks that
- Let you hear a Boon noise much further away and/or see a totem’s aura if you’re in a short range of it.
- Block all totems for X seconds when you snuff a Boon
- Give a killer tokens that build up stackable bonuses to movement speed and action speed every time they snuff a Boon
- Shows the killer the aura or killer instinct of the survivor who placed a Boon for a while, or shows all survivor auras for a somewhat shorter time
- Allows a killer to interact with any dull or hex totem to block it for X seconds
That’s just off the top of my head, the main thing is there’s probably a bunch of perks that could be fun for killers to try that make snuffing Boons or interacting with totems a bit more interesting for them.
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YES
I think it'd be fine if killers destroy boon totems BUT with perks like Pentimento killers shouldn't be able to then rebuild it - killer destroying it should be considered the same as 2nd cleanse by survivor.
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YES
It's got to be one of the most used perks, I see it every game.
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YES
The fix is pretty simple. Just make them function exactly like Hex Totems.
- Make Boon Totems breakable
- Make Boon Totem effects global (map wide)
- Remove the audio from Boon Totems (so they are just as easy/difficult to find as Hex Totems)
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YES
Survivor perks shouldn't be as strong as killer perks. The killer can't have 4 ruins and 4 undying and 4 people to split the work between. Boons should not be equal to hexes.
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YES
I mean... isn't the current sentiment that Boons are actually BETTER than Hex Perks? At least those changes would actually bring them in line with each other.
Also, the break would be as fast as the snuff and even the slow Killers move much faster than survivors. It's not like you can't learn totem spawns.
And, one more again... lmao. It may be 4 players searching for the Hex, but only one of them can actually break it.
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YES
yes they are better, thats part of the problem. Sure that action would be technically better, but we should be aiming to solve the issue not just slightly improve it. CoH got nerfed, is it better? Yes. Is it still a problem? Also yes.
Moving 10-15% faster doesnt make up for up to 4 survivors searching, which would be 400% (100 x 4 survivors). Even just 2 is 200%, way faster than a killer.
Sure 1 can break it while 2 get on gens and the other is running the killer, if the killer searches for the hex thats literally all their side is doing.
Boons should be weaker than hexes, not equal or better.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
YES
We're on the same side of the argument. I agree that B:CoH can be a little problematic (especially when it's combined w/ other healing items/perks.
I'm just trying to be reasonable and suggest some functionality that already exists, and it better than the way it currently functions. Copy/paste is kind of how they roll for 9 months out of the year.
If it makes you feel any better, I just bring Botany Knowledge and a brown med-kit. It's a faster heal and I don't have to walk across the map for 90s to be in range of the stupid thing.
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YES
Alright that's understandable. It just sucks we have to settle for copy/paste to even maybe potentially see something a little better :(
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YES
Agreed!
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