Survivors are nothing without dead hard
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To combat the survivors' sweat builds, no doubt.
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If the perk just disappeared, that would be so good. But I'll meet survivors halfway and just demand that the i-frames be removed. That's the cheapest part of the whole perk.
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Actually sprint burst probably has the hight skill ceiling for exhaustion perks. Most people just run around and waste it 90% of the time. 99% sprint burst Actually takes some skill.
If a survivor DH to a pallet or window they can reset the chase almost.
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Crutch perks are supposed to be like unrelenting is your new and not good you'll get tins of value but as you get better and don't miss as much it's value drops. DH is the worst kind of crutch perk there is one that works at low levels and high.
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That has been happening for quite a long time, all the way back to the early days of the game. The first one that comes to my mind is the machine gun build, when the devs nerfed both STBFL and Unrelenting in 1.5.0, because they were used too much.
Another example that comes to mind is Enduring in 3.0.0, when it was nerfed to no longer reduce the stun timer of perk stuns as it was used too much against Decisive Strike.
When you try whataboutism, you really should do your research first. Because clearly, you haven't.
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Whatsaboutism? I just asked someone who claimed it without bringing examples. Which is a form of research. And i didn’t even bring up this topic initially.
i was not around when those changes happened. And i guess you don’t have a source confirming those happened because they were overused?
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Where exactly do you expect people to find such a source 3-5 years later?
The devs, with at most a literal handful of exceptions in 6 years, generally have not said outright that they nerfed something due to overuse and their dev comments in patch notes are a recent thing, it was always the community realizing it as the truth behind the nerf.
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I mean, against a good Nurse or Blight, Dead Hard is practically necessary to have a chance. But yeah, it's overkill vs. other Killers.
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‚It was always the community realizing‘ - nope. Assuming, not realizing. Just because you like the assumption doesn’t make it true.
I am not even denying that it is the case that overuse is a factor in nerfing or reviewing a perk - on both sides. But it certainly is never the only reason.
and i did not expect you to provide a source. Just wanted you to maybe question yourself and admit it might be your assumption. Of course there is no source and there never was.
and just to be clear. Bringing up killer perks at all was whatsboutism here, but you tried to call me out on it when I merely asked questions.
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You can very well deal with those killers without dead hard, they are meant to be dealt after all.
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I don't think DH is really as OP as people like to believe. Any killer with a reasonable amount of hours in the game knows how to bate it. Plus, it has to be timed right in order to make it to the next loop/pallet, otherwise, it buys you an extra couple of seconds at best. I mean, there are countless clips on YouTube of 'Dead Hard fails' where you can see it doesn't always work as intended. I get that it's annoying as someone who plays killer and survivor 50/50, but there are other exhaustion perks that are better in my opinion - Sprint Burst for example.
It's one of those perks that one side complains about as it makes their game harder and puts more pressure on them. It's the same as survivors who play an entire round efficiently while the killer gets little-to-no hooks but then gets a free 2K/3k because of NOED. It's an annoyance, but oh well. This is the thing with a competitive game that has 'sides': each side will complain about the advantages the other has. I agree, DH has become a 'clutch' perk, but so are perks like BBQ, Pop etc. It's just one of those things.
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I disagree. The number of times I see newbies who don't know how to loop and just run out in the open use DH, and it usually just results in one missed attack, and the killer will catch up pretty quickly. It buys them like an extra few seconds at best. I think it takes a good couple hundred hours in the game to really understand loops and tiles. It's only mid-tier/experienced survivors that really know how to use DH properly to connect loops, make the distance in loops, etc, in my opinion. I'd argue DH is the opposite: it's far more effective in higher ranks than lower ranks.
An example of the type of 'crutch' perk you're talking about would be, say, Spine Chill. I used that perk all the time as a newbie as I didn't really understand heartbeats/terror radius etc, and stealth killers used to terrify me. Now I'm more experienced, I never run it because I know how to rotate the camera, look out for moving birds, killer breathing, etc. It's a crutch for beginners, but becomes pretty useless in higher ranks.
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There is countless situation where it can't be baited at all, and in that circumstance you have no reason to use it in "right time".
You have different opinion than many other (and probably different from statistics), there is extremely few survivors who thinks SB is better, and there is a reason for that.
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Dead Hard´s issue is that it´s a win-win perk unlike the other exhaust perks.
You get extra distance by pressing E, you´re invincible against everything even beartraps & projectiles.
There´s nothing about timing it, you move forwards no matter what
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I agree with you on DH being strong.
I personally don't run exhaustion perks.
But with the God damn stacked gen slowdowns , I can understand why people might want/need a bit of help to prolong chase.
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But that's not how it was intended I'm pretty sure the DH for distance was an unforseen effect. Dh would only work to dodge hit it probably be less effective at higher level just my opinion.
I still love stealth killers they always show up during a skill checks or the moment I rotate my camera.
Spine chill also works in the vault speed build but I would agree it's mostly that it's used as a crutch.
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So survivors need buffs? Since they “are nothing” without one perk not all of them use?
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What logic is this.
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Standard.
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And these forums are nothing without lazy threads like this.
Please get better.
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If forums are nothing without threads like this, don't we need more thread like this.
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Definitely not. I play Nurse without a sweat build and do just find against survivors sweat builds.
I'm sure Blight can do the same, if he's good.
And a lot of survivors don't always go full on sweat. Blights literally always do.
I don't think dead hard is an issue for him. He's an insanely powerful killer almost always ran by people running insanely powerful perks (because let's be real- who plays blight except the most tryhards 90%+ of the time) and on top of that he has busted addons that are ran pretty frequently too. AND a good number of them tend to abuse "techs" (aka bugs), and by a good number I mean it's always the sweatiest of the sweats who do.
Even if you don't sweat as blight and verse a somewhat sweaty survivor team, you'll do fine. Unless you are a potato.
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I have exactly zero reason to question anything here. If that was your goal, call it a failed attempt.
I stand by what I said: the devs have a history of nerfing stuff purely because they see it as being overused, the most recent examples being the Twins add-ons. The add-ons weren't overpowered, they merely fixed a lackluster base-kit, there was no reason not to use them. Since nearly everyone ran them to fix a clunky killer, they got nerfed.
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yeah I see you don’t reflect your own views. Great.
sure those nerfs were probably not the best call - but then again. Maybe they should fix the clunky killer instead of having addons for that.
and no, they don’t just nerf stuff because it’s overused.they have other statistics and metrics they use. They are certainly not always doing what’s best for the games balance and health, but spreading lies won’t help here…
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Agreed, obviously survivors have to run Dead Hard to compete as shown by the OP, survivors obviously need to be buffed.
I think the best way to buff survivors and remove Dead Hard is to get rid of all the one-hit downs killers have, Nurse and Blight.
It does seem like there's been a lot of survivor nerfs lately, DS then CoH and Boil Over. I don't think there's been any Killer perk nerfs in between all those survivor perk nerfs. Maybe it's time to nerf 3 killer perks. Maybe Ruin, Corrupt Intervention and Undying.
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Post edited by DangerScouse on0
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They’ll probably make it where you can only dodge a hit and not use it for distance.
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They are nothing with it. Survivors need massively buffed.
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Couldn't the other argument be that killers are nothing without No end, slow down perks and BBQ and Chili?
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Absolutely disagree, yes it's powerful but if you are not good at looping it's worthless, you need to use it at the right time to actually get any value. Also it's one time per chase usage.
I personally am a DH user but lately I have been using SB paired with windows of opportunity and actually I would say I have been having better games overall since even killers are not that used to sb and just commit to chasing me when I already got to the strong tile with sb so it makes chases longer
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Reads the title
How dare you accuse me of using dh I prefer balanced landing as my exhaustion perk
On a serious note I'm expecting it dh to be changed in someway I'm also expecting it not to be changed much or not at all lol
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Dead hard... is not that good at the end of the day against a killer with patience. Like as far as I see it, as killer; I know what play you want to happen, if you're running a field in a chase with me. You have DH, I'll just wait to get a wee bit closer to scare it out of you; even if I could've knocked you hours ago with the end buffer of my attack. DH can be strong in some loops, but it's a one time use thing. Wait for them to pop it before you commit to a loop you won't win. Vise versa: as survivor, DH is really fun to use. Especially to spin a killer to get to a pallet. Is it stupid I can just do that, yes. Does the killer really need to go after me, nah. They can drop it or commit. Just having self control makes DH a lot weaker. It's kind of like boil over, really "strong" but just a slight inconvenience for the killer in practice.
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They really don’t
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and the dead hard circle jerk continues, keep it up everyone!
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its the strongest survivor perk in the game. it just recently got buffed with validation hits. They did mention in the livestream that it will see changes, who knows when. I've also hear an ex dev say "I wouldn't be surprised if they changed dead hard". which means they know its an issue and plan to do something in the future.
I personally find dead hard to be a very cringey and annoying perk. I don't run it personally because it feels like bullshit on the killer side.
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what about when 4 people use dh for distance pretty incomplete take. maybe when you play killer people use it poorly but alot of us have 4 survivors using it correctly, for distance, and it becomes an issue. extending chases by a minute or more.
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I won't discredit that, like there is a chance I could have the biggest throw survivors of human history. BUT, the distance is not the hardest to close, reminder the ability itself adds a few seconds worth of distance. The only problem after that is loops. They can't use it multiple times in a chase. At that point it's about playing loops better. And if you feel you're spending to long on a chase, you probably are. Just find a better chase if you know you're wasting time.
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Undying waves hello.
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You will not find a better chase when there is four people using dead hard and actually is good.
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I have 2.3k hours in this game and in my opinion, dead hard is the worst exhaustion perk. You get very little out of the exhaustion status. I started using lithe and it's far superior to dead hard and even better when paired with quick and quite after breaking LOS of the killer. Only time it sucks is if you get a map like Midwich that only has like 4 vaults on the entire map.
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Seems like you learnt nothing from 2.3k hours.
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No, you do have to sweat with Blight. You need favorable conditions with him. If you're sliding off everything or constantly bumping into things you don't want to, you're gonna have a hard game, because then you can't use your ability that holds all of the killer's strength. A map can even be too open, with nothing to slide or bump off of, like Rotten fields.
Nurse doesn't have to run meta sometimes because she can just do that. Obstacles, walls, windows, and pallets mean nothing to her. And that is something that cannot be said about any other killer, not even Blight.
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it's a fact... until survivors keep doing m1 on gen without troubles (you can't be in 4 places at once) and they have a good map (there are actually FEW maps bad for survivors right now), you have to play scummy if you want win as killer... doing mixed hooks will lead to your defeat if you are playing with a killer that isn't meta... it's even more easy when you are in a sfw: "the killer is chasing me, do gens". it's like doing the adept for a killer when you don't have slowdown perks: you must PRAY that the survivors that you are facing are bad or they are memeing around, otherwise you'll be stomped for good
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survivor main uses dead hard
tries to bait killer into hitting them with dead hard
fails and falls down
gets mori'd or hooked
simple story of a dumb dead hard user
actual survivor main uses dead hard to get another loop around it
gets a window vault and gets more distance
killer is far behind
escapes over to heal or do gen
its all about how smart a person is,most dead hard users arent really that smart though,you should just learn to wait abit before attacking them :)
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Play as you want, but don't call it a fact that you "have to i order to win" because that's far from true
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It makes no difference to me, I don't use it.
I'm still nothing without it, cause I'm a potato, but I try to learn by not using exhaustion perks at all.
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Yep too much people rely on it that i think if the day of a DH nerf comes, they will go down so fast without it.. Its such a crutch.
And besides that it really makes the game boring. Its like "a ######### here we go again" every time someone DH to reach a pallet, and there is literally nothing a killer can do about that.
But personally i don't bother myself anymore, dbd became really boring for me, i don't like the way the game is going so i just go play something else. And its not like the game will change anytime soon, the devs always had a clear view of want they want and they always promoted survivor more than killer, specially swf, they prioritize what gives the most money like a company without a heart, and that won't change unless their pockets are threatened. And yet everybody buys without hesitation all their dlc and skins..
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The virgin survivor: DEAD ARD
Chad Survivor: Up the ante
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yes, it's ridiculous that survivors basically have to run that perk to stand a chance and win against top tier killers. nerfing it would 100% break the game
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No,I think for a lot of survivors,it will motivate them to improve at the game instead of relying on overpowered perks.
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