This game is insane for new players.
They don't have useful perks at beginning., only one maybe. But they need to face many full perks', and rank hacked killers. How can they enjoy the game?
Even worse, new players always lose the match and they only get 3000-5000 bloodpoint.
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takes time lvl character get the parks you want on the character you want to use the most.but it true it hard for new player at first.
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Barbecue & Chilli + Hex: Ruin + A Nurse's Calling= no one can escape.
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This is one of the game's biggest problem. The perk grind. they need to make it easier for people to unlock perks.
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I am glad that more and more people started to talk about this perk grind problem.
Maybe devs realize this problem and start to work on this perk grind to lessen it.
I was kind of expecting that for this mid chapter but they came up with hooks and their placements. I hope for the next chapter or the next mid chapter now.
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@ad19970 said:
This is one of the game's biggest problem. The perk grind. they need to make it easier for people to unlock perks.I need to work on daytime and I just have an hour to play sometime. I don't know when can i collect 4 useful perks. I have already played 50 hours and i just only obtain 1 useful perk. OMG!!! It make me so frustrate and no mood to continue to play.
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@JohnTed said:
They don't have useful perks at beginning., only one maybe. But they need to face many full perks', and rank hacked killers. How can they enjoy the game?You are right.
- Not having access to 4 perk slots in the beginning.
- Having to nearly FULLY level 4 characters to even get your first build going.
- Having to get through 3 tiers of a perk before you get the final perk
is ridiculous and doesn't benefit anyone.
Because all 3 teach-ables are thought at the higher levels, you basically don't have any real build you want, up until you finally levels up 4 characters, and then suddenly you have a lot of builds and gain them more quickly for newer ones. This is anti-beginner.
You wanting to unlock your characters as quick as possible also prevents you from actually picking the add-ons and such that you want, since you only pick the cheapest, making it so that you don't really use the blood-web the way it's intended to FOR THE BIGGEST TIME of you playing this game.
And there is no purpose to Perk tiers. It just causes more writing on the gamepedia explaining the numbers. Not only that but some are so much weaker than their earlier version that the perk just isn't very usable at lower tiers. Whereas Urban only increases about +6% per tier, Premonition increases about a 100% per tier.
Why these ridiculous disparities?There are a bunch of those highly questionable decisions like that in this game.
Similar decision making in games like League of Legends like you having to unlock masteries based on reaching level 30 and having to unlock ruines have both been eliminated and replaced from a system that unlocks everything from the beginning as it should.
And so should we.
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@JohnTed said:
@ad19970 said:
This is one of the game's biggest problem. The perk grind. they need to make it easier for people to unlock perks.I need to work on daytime and I just have an hour to play sometime. I don't know when can i collect 4 useful perks. I have already played 50 hours and i just only obtain 1 useful perk. OMG!!! It make me so frustrate and no mood to continue to play.
Yeah the perk grind needs to be looked at. Pretty sure the devs said that they would try and improve that. But it's a seriousl problem. I started playing the game 5 months ago, and I did struggle because I didn't have the good perks you would need to compete in higher ranks. Obviously I wasn't that good yet as killer as well.
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like I say in another thread
@NekoGamerX said:
after Prestiged you should get to pick 4 of the perks you had to keep also any you had at the high lvl should still be high when you find them again in the bloodwab.1 -
The game does have a very steep learning curve.
It's better to learn the mechanics of the game and get better without perks, you will be a better player in the long run, If you start with the best perks you start to rely on them and will always think you need them.
The thing to always keep in mind is it's a game, never worry about winning whatever means to you and just have fun learning, rank means nothing just play for bloodpoints to lvl up and eventually will get the build you want over time, 50 hours is nothing in terms of learning this game, it is a lot more fun when you dont worry about what you need to do.
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@twistedmonkey said:
It's better to learn the mechanics of the game and get better without perks, you will be a better player in the long run, If you start with the best perks you start to rely on them and will always think you need them.The thing to always keep in mind is it's a game, never worry about winning whatever means to you and just have fun learning, rank means nothing just play for bloodpoints to lvl up and eventually will get the build you want over time, 50 hours is nothing in terms of learning this game, it is a lot more fun when you dont worry about what you need to do.
I have played perkless survivor and killer and both of them were so boring.
This game becomes interesting when you have all of the perks and try different things. It gives you unique experience every time you play with another different build.
The perk grind should definitely be lessened.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape said:
@JohnTed said:
They don't have useful perks at beginning., only one maybe. But they need to face many full perks', and rank hacked killers. How can they enjoy the game?You are right.
- Not having access to 4 perk slots in the beginning.
- Having to nearly FULLY level 4 characters to even get your first build going.
- Having to get through 3 tiers of a perk before you get the final perk
is ridiculous and doesn't benefit anyone.
Because all 3 teach-ables are thought at the higher levels, you basically don't have any real build you want, up until you finally levels up 4 characters, and then suddenly you have a lot of builds and gain them more quickly for newer ones. This is anti-beginner.
You wanting to unlock your characters as quick as possible also prevents you from actually picking the add-ons and such that you want, since you only pick the cheapest, making it so that you don't really use the blood-web the way it's intended to FOR THE BIGGEST TIME of you playing this game.
And there is no purpose to Perk tiers. It just causes more writing on the gamepedia explaining the numbers. Not only that but some are so much weaker than their earlier version that the perk just isn't very usable at lower tiers. Whereas Urban only increases about +6% per tier, Premonition increases about a 100% per tier.
Why these ridiculous disparities?There are a bunch of those highly questionable decisions like that in this game.
Similar decision making in games like League of Legends like you having to unlock masteries based on reaching level 30 and having to unlock ruines have both been eliminated and replaced from a system that unlocks everything from the beginning as it should.
And so should we.
And when you completed 4 perks, you just started the game, not mention that different perks' combination
are for different strategies. It would just make every players unlock the same perks and play in the same way.Just image that you need to spend time to unlock weapon in CSGO and you started with USP-C. It will be so ridiculous.
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Lol that you say they face "ranks hacked killers"...
I remember when i first played in beta against "rank hacked" survivors....lol quit the game for a good six months.
A new player wanting to play ki!ler? Lol good luck.
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When I first started playing, i was playing with my friends who were also new and we kinda started hating the game cuz one of us got camped every game. It was bad since we were new to DBD. I started watching streamers like Tru3 and Noob3 and I learned more about the game. The more you play and learn the more fun you will have. Sadly my buddies dont play anymore cuz of their first expirence.JohnTed said:They don't have useful perks at beginning., only one maybe. But they need to face many full perks', and rank hacked killers. How can they enjoy the game?
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@ad19970 said:
This is one of the game's biggest problem. The perk grind. they need to make it easier for people to unlock perks.This is not even a grind anymore, it could be called a grindfest before the legacy release, now its so easy to lv up and get all the perks in the game that its getting boring to the point i have to wait for a new chapter just to have a reason to play and progress in some way.
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Actually, I gave up this games 4 times. Every time I played again I felt very disappointed. All of those problems were not solved. Killer perks are overpower. Suck in connection.
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I suppose to enjoy playing this game, but i need to unlock the perks like working. No one want to work in all day.
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I don't have time to main both side.
Sometime, i and my 3 friends played together and some perks are so OP and made us cannot even fix 1 generator.0 -
@Tsulan he means the ones that derank on purpose. At low ranks, they're everywhere and the low ranks got no chance against them. Therefore making killers seem completely overpowered to them.
Deranking needs to be sorted out.
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The devs went the lazy way to create noob ranks. Instead the noob ranks should actually be a completely seperated thing. Where players are asked if they really want to leave them.
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The same can be said for survivors who derank , I think both sides need to have that sorted out moving forward, you know it's an issue when you majority run into the same people all the time at high ranks , why arent the new players commiting to the game ? Well you've got fully stacked would be high rank killers and survivors at the very bottom mixed in with these guys just salivating to make them DC or ruin the whole game for someonePoweas said:@Tsulan he means the ones that derank on purpose. At low ranks, they're everywhere and the low ranks got no chance against them. Therefore making killers seem completely overpowered to them.
Deranking needs to be sorted out.
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@JohnTed said:
I don't have time to main both side.
Sometime, i and my 3 friends played together and some perks are so OP and made us cannot even fix 1 generator.are the perks OP or are you just not good at the game?
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You'de not new here Tsulan. Why are you still surprised when people think killer is easy?
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BBQ - Hide behind gens, hide in lockers, keep moving, lead in a direction then double back, many ways to counter.JohnTed said:Barbecue & Chilli + Hex: Ruin + A Nurse's Calling= no one can escape.
Ruin - Get better at great SC's, Learn the totem spawns, gen tap (touchy subject lol)
Nurse's - Dont heal in the killers TR dummy!! Lol
All this brought to you by a Nea main
I make it out quite often against those perks, so....1 -
@JohnTed said:
They don't have useful perks at beginning., only one maybe. But they need to face many full perks', and rank hacked killers. How can they enjoy the game?Please back in the day you didn't even have access to your 3 character perks and you had to get to level 25 to unlock 4 slots. Things have gotten a little easier for new comers in terms of learning the game.
Now I will say that new players have it rough since by this point a lot more people know the game and are getting matched against you. Just keep playing and remember the #1 thing that will boost your ability to survive/ get kills is learning the map layouts.
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I had to farm with my killer friend to get points for perks. It took insanely long, thank goodness I started the game during a double bp event. I don't even have a devotion 1 yet and I would rather use shards to buy costumes than money. Practically costs 10usd for one whole outfit and they focus more on claudette and nea since they're probably the most popular.
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That's why I asked him if he tried killer.Bbbrian2013 said:You'de not new here Tsulan. Why are you still surprised when people think killer is easy?
Bbbrian2013 said:You'de not new here Tsulan. Why are you still surprised when people think killer is easy?
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The perk grind in this game has become a real problem that sorely needs to be addressed. The devs still continue to release new killers and survivors every 3 months and they have not stated when they plan to stop so its only going to get worse and worse. The ideal solution would be to remove perk tiers. Perk tiers are redundant and needlessly triples the grind.
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@SadonicShadow said:
The perk grind in this game has become a real problem that sorely needs to be addressed. The devs still continue to release new killers and survivors every 3 months and they have not stated when they plan to stop so its only going to get worse and worse. The ideal solution would be to remove perk tiers. Perk tiers are redundant and needlessly triples the grind.Not only triples the grind. It influences perk design as well. I mean every perk needs to be scalable on some level. They can't design a perk which only does one thing only.
On the other hand getting rid of the Tiers would need another Bloodweb overhaul. Survivors have 14, Killers 12 general perks. So if you start leveling your first character you only have 17/15 Perks available right from the start. The rest needs to be unlocked first.
I personally think a newcomer should be able to gain 17 perks plus unlocking 3 teachables with their first leveling to 50. It might require to introduce two additional general killer perks, to make the leveling survivor and killer experience more the same. But you are right, that we could lessen the grind that way, if it's done right.1 -
Yeah, the people that enjoy going after newbies and making their trial, nevermind blood point gains suck.
Worse is the newbies are precisely in the position to be targeted.
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The perk grind is necessary. The game would lose people's interest really fast if there were no perk grind.
People like to work towards something. A big part of the addictive quality of DbD is grinding for bloodpoints to unlock perks so I can get the build I want. Take that away and the game loses a sense of purpose,
The solution isn't to remove the perk grind, it's to ensure that new players stay matched up against new killers. The matchmaking and begginer rank systems need to be improved, and killer balance needs to be looked at a little because baby survivors have the absolute worst experience in this game.
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@SadonicShadow said:
The perk grind in this game has become a real problem that sorely needs to be addressed. The devs still continue to release new killers and survivors every 3 months and they have not stated when they plan to stop so its only going to get worse and worse. The ideal solution would be to remove perk tiers. Perk tiers are redundant and needlessly triples the grind.I would actually be fine with this. There's no real reason to need to play the game this much to get competitive perks.
It just pads out the gameplay time more than it should.
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Getting the "competitive" perks doesn't take long at all. Self Care is right there, you can unlock it in 10 hours or less. My friend ground Claudette to 40 in like 15 hours. Self Care is also 100% competitive at Tier 1. You don't even need to max it out.
The game is also perfectly playable without perks. They are nice but what gets you through a match is knowledge and skill, not perks. At least on the survivor side. I think Killers are more dependent on perks because they are so used to all the aura-reading and detection that goes on nowadays.
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You could still grind to Prestige characters and unlock cosmetics with Iridescent Shards.Mochan said:The perk grind is necessary. The game would lose people's interest really fast if there were no perk grind.
People like to work towards something. A big part of the addictive quality of DbD is grinding for bloodpoints to unlock perks so I can get the build I want. Take that away and the game loses a sense of purpose,
The solution isn't to remove the perk grind, it's to ensure that new players stay matched up against new killers. The matchmaking and begginer rank systems need to be improved, and killer balance needs to be looked at a little because baby survivors have the absolute worst experience in this game.
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In my opinion the devs need to take care of the perkgrind before everything else.
Yes there are some mechanic that could be fixed, DS, hatch, more objectives for survivors, snowbally games ect. But the perk grind builds an artificial wall for new players and with each chapter the gap between the veteran players and beginners widens.
I know they are aware of it and one idea they had was get rid of the perks ranks. No more rank 1 or 2 only the final perk at level 3.
But what I have heard they not just want to hotfix the perks, they are about to overhaul the entire bloodweb. But this takes it's time.
I really hope they will put this at their top priority, so more players can face each other on similar ground and not be at a perk disadvantage.1 -
@KillerRaccoon said:
Mochan said:The perk grind is necessary. The game would lose people's interest really fast if there were no perk grind.
People like to work towards something. A big part of the addictive quality of DbD is grinding for bloodpoints to unlock perks so I can get the build I want. Take that away and the game loses a sense of purpose,
The solution isn't to remove the perk grind, it's to ensure that new players stay matched up against new killers. The matchmaking and begginer rank systems need to be improved, and killer balance needs to be looked at a little because baby survivors have the absolute worst experience in this game.
You could still grind to Prestige characters and unlock cosmetics with Iridescent Shards.
I believe that much much more players give up before they get enough bloodpoint to level up a character to 50.
This game has already faced insufficient players. I still need to wait a bit of long time for one match. Ever worse, the game is quite easy to crash during connection.
I don't understand why they would adopt this stupid system.
LOL would not need to speed time to unlock items or character skills to make you play longer. They make new characters instead.0 -
It has been known since forever that the new player experience of DbD is absolute garbage.
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I remember making the same point about half a year ago. Except back then I got a lot of abuse from people deny that a perk grind exists. I hate to jump to conclusions but...dbd is getting slightly less toxic. Or maybe the idiots haven't had their say yet.0
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The grind was worse in the past cause of the sizes and costs of the bloodweb.
But yeah with each new chapter you're looking at 3 new perks per side.
They should consider removing a level in the perk rankings or just make them 1 rank only and make it so you only get 1 per web instead of two after level 25. That might lessen the grind.
But they should then compensate others who've spent loads of points in getting all those perks. This is probably why we haven't seen much of a change in the grind over the past year.
However new players do get the first 3 perks for each character now, even though they are rank 1. Having rank 1 self care on claud or meg is a pretty good start now.
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@TheBean said:
The grind was worse in the past cause of the sizes and costs of the bloodweb.But yeah with each new chapter you're looking at 3 new perks per side.
They should consider removing a level in the perk rankings or just make them 1 rank only and make it so you only get 1 per web instead of two after level 25. That might lessen the grind.
But they should then compensate others who've spent loads of points in getting all those perks. This is probably why we haven't seen much of a change in the grind over the past year.
However new players do get the first 3 perks for each character now, even though they are rank 1. Having rank 1 self care on claud or meg is a pretty good start now.
So, you mean it would be unfair to old players?
It should not be a reason to stop advance. If we use this logic to employ to other things, it will be very terrible. For example, free education should not be implemented because it wold be unfair to those who paid for education.0 -
I think as a new player, you simply need thick skin, especially as new killer and dealing with SWF. Like me, you will lose so many games at the start (sacrificed as survivor or no kills as killer).
You need to have the mindset of treating all early games as practice and seeing people play, learning etc.
Painful early on but you will get there1 -
@JohnTed said:
So, you mean it would be unfair to old players?
It should not be a reason to stop advance. If we use this logic to employ to other things, it will be very terrible. For example, free education should not be implemented because it wold be unfair to those who paid for education.It would be unfair to old players cause of the time and effort put in. However I didn't suggest they didn't change it though did I?... I think I even offered a suggestion on it. They could just offer up a reward like the legacy was offered up when the grind was changed.
One thing though...
I see what you were trying to do, but comparing education to a video game isn't a fair comparison. You can apply logic however you want, but the first logical question you should ask yourself is... "Is this a valid comparison?" Then you might not have even mentioned what you did.
Generally subjects can be far more complex with many nuances then simply applying one generalize logical statement as a blanket statement across a range of different subjects. Education is a far more complex subject then a "grind" in a video game.
Please use logic if you are trying to apply it. First thing you might want to ask yourself next time is, "Is this comparison a valid comparison?"
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Many games are hard for new players; look at Rainbow Six Siege, it's extremely difficult to be good at that game. As far as the perks go you just need to be patient, and playing without perks makes the game a bit more tense
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Less complaining, more gitting gud like us Veterans had to do too back in the days. You guys already have it much easier than we had. We didn't have any Perks unlocked from the start and had massive Bloodwebs to complete, without any Offerings to boost our point gain other than the Sachets and the Wreaths, which also gave 25% fewer points back then.JohnTed said:They don't have useful perks at beginning., only one maybe. But they need to face many full perks', and rank hacked killers. How can they enjoy the game?
Even worse, new players always lose the match and they only get 3000-5000 bloodpoint.
Also, playing the Killer and the Survivor Tutorial gives a neat little Bloodpoint bonus to get you started.0 -
@JohnTed said:
Killer perks are overpower.No. You are new and just unskilled atm.
Take the time you have levelling characters to learn core mechanics and counter plays. There is 100s of guides and videos out there to help. Instead of complaining, do what the rest of us have done....use the time to learn.
To the people saying this game should be less grindy, agreed it is a pain, but it is how games like this keep longevity.0 -
@TheBean said:
@JohnTed said:
So, you mean it would be unfair to old players?
It should not be a reason to stop advance. If we use this logic to employ to other things, it will be very terrible. For example, free education should not be implemented because it wold be unfair to those who paid for education.It would be unfair to old players cause of the time and effort put in. However I didn't suggest they didn't change it though did I?... I think I even offered a suggestion on it. They could just offer up a reward like the legacy was offered up when the grind was changed.
One thing though...
I see what you were trying to do, but comparing education to a video game isn't a fair comparison. You can apply logic however you want, but the first logical question you should ask yourself is... "Is this a valid comparison?" Then you might not have even mentioned what you did.
Generally subjects can be far more complex with many nuances then simply applying one generalize logical statement as a blanket statement across a range of different subjects. Education is a far more complex subject then a "grind" in a video game.
Please use logic if you are trying to apply it. First thing you might want to ask yourself next time is, "Is this comparison a valid comparison?"
Of cause, i know. This is just a game and it is not a necessary in our life. I just want to point out that being unfair to someone is not a good reason to forbid any reform.
There are so many way to make new player have a friendly environment to play, such as give some bloodpoints when they play the first match every day. They can fix the derank bug.0
