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DBD is Heading Down the R6S Road
One of the biggest problems with R6S is the community. It is a unique game, with support that has lasted a long time and it is trying its best to improve and keep the game going. What is funny is that it is working. For the serious players of R6S (Rainbow Six Siege) they all really enjoy the changes and new content the devs are doing. The apparent and growing problem, though, is the community. The community has been reaching a "long-time" point of its life where there are senior players that know the game in and out, new players that just got into the game, and average players that haven't been playing for the longest time but aren't new.
The problem exactly is that the community, each demographic, believes they know what the game needs, they know how the game should be, and what the devs should do. Not suprising at all, each of those viewpoints are completely different. Casual players think some of the tryhard things need to stop being pushed, and that "grrrrr the devs only change stuff for pros!!!" while the tryhards that are trying to go pro, but aren't anytime soon lol, say "the devs only change for the casuals, get good bad scrubs grrrrrr!!"
Hence, nothing really feels better if you aren't in a demographic. If you just want to try new things, or try to play serious, or just have fun, or try something the community deems "toxic", you got a bunch of people ruining it for you.
I have played R6S for about 4 to 5 years now and I got to see this growing community problem first hand and now with DBD, another game I've played for the same time-frame.
It really sucks when, despite what people are saying, the devs definitely are making huge improvements. You can't enjoy them though, because you are either a dirty survivor main or an trash baby killer. Playing both sides and wanting to just be good at the game and understand the game at a basic level not possible, never heard of it.
Long-term DBD players are still good at the game, and realize the game isn't that unbalanced but it just takes a lot of skill (but being boring is definitely a different conversation and also subjective), average or casual players usually stick to one side and make up a large of the base, and then newer players that tend to trip or fall into that middle category.
The game isn't horrible, the devs aren't just repeatedly destroying the game, they are making good steps in the right direction. Should some things have happened way faster than they really did? Oh definitely. Is the game perfect? NO and there are still changes that need to happen, but this community feels so separated in what the game actually needs, it is no surprise things aren't being done fast. I don't know how many more "survivor bad killer good" or vice versa this community can take, and I know it definitely isn't a forum problem. The subreddit, twitter, almost everything has this same problem.
DBD is going down the R6S road, where the game isn't even the problem anymore, it is the community.
Nerf Pig
Comments
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I feel that. Well put!
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I miss R6S sometimes. I only really quit because not enough friends were into it and soloing can be awful (there's a similarity the two games have right there)
I was never any good but was proud of my imaginative frost mat placements, made more than a couple of plats ragequit after getting caught in one which is all I can ask for really.
Sadly Ubisoft were always blinded to the one simple change that players of all levels of skill and experience would be able to get behind, which is nerfing pig
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Agree with your sentiments.
But the devs have done nothing to help themselves with some of the attitudes displayed.
I.E colourblind mode video and the go play Civilization video as well.
The attitude just shocks me, as a consumer and as i've gotten older (im 38) i find myself less tolerant of crap behaviour from businesses, to the extent that i won't give them my money anymore. I've walked past stores that have something i want cheaper than another store but i'll refuse to give them any of my money and pay more elsewhere.
It does have to go both ways, yes it is a business and businesses are there to make a profit, so i get the need for content to generate cash, but you'd think for every bit of new content they would look at updating older content to make it relevant.
How many perks are completely rubbish now days compared to the modern ones. Even if it's one a patch just do something with them.
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I agree, but saying DbD takes skill? I get saying it takes game knowledge, but skill? Run around a rock and press space to drop a Pallet or hold W and M1 when close to a Survivor isn't hard. There's Killers like Billy, Blight and Nurse that take skill but those are rare
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R6S is not my kind of game but decided to check it out. I was struck by reviews saying it has a really toxic community. Winning the Steam 2018 Better with Friends award has an irony to it, as someone who mostly plays solo queue/killer in DbD. R6S does look like the kind of game that needs to be played with friends so you know what to expect from your teammates.
Regarding DbD, I tend to filter out all the 'sided' discussion as pointless polemics. I think a number of players really enjoy or are invested in arguing from this perspective. I can imagine similar casual vs sweaty sided conflict in R6S.
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Oh yes! everything is totally fine and dandy. The game is so fine that the drop in players is just a phase and they are talking about introducing incentives to play the side with a low player count just for fun and not because there is an issue.
I hope they don't snap out of it and change because what they are doing is clearly working out splendidly.
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Oh yeah that is definitely a point as well. Again, I do not believe the game is perfect and criticism of the game is something that is always welcome for the improvement of the game, and when the game does questionable things, it makes sense to call them out. I can't wait for the day they actually do that legion buff/rework they talking about.
TBF though again, they HAVE been doing some big things that have been asked about for a while, just not everything people wanted.
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Again, I didn't say the game was perfect. I said there was still things that definitely need addressed and fixed, but even if they get those changes done (and they actually have been doing those type of changes recently) it probably won't matter because the majority of people complaining don't seem to quite understand why they are truly understanding.
Also, again - the game being fun or boring to someone is a subjective statement and not quite a true complaint on the game itself, seeing as how a lot of people find nemesis or bubba boring, but just the same amount see the opposite. It is hard for a dev or game to fix the "i don't like game" complaint when there isn't a true reason.
Also I'm pretty sure the incentive is for queue times. Overwatch has the same thing, and when they added it they certainly weren't dying. Hell just a week or two ago, there was a change in queue where survivors had shorter times then killer, it took me around 4 minutes to find a match as killer. Queue times depend on a lot of factors.
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I agree some people have really bad takes on the game and what it needs,but there's also a lot of constructive criticism from players that just want to have a better experience in the game,and features that would make the game better.
Heck,we still missing basic features like advanced settings,replay mode,practice mode,things like this should have been in the game for a long time now.
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As a fellow older person(36) im finding myself getting fed up with bs practices as well. Its sad that when a game first releases i expect it to break or crash the first week. Part of me is saying "i paid money for a product. It should work right from the start". At times i miss gaming before the internet. Back when game developers had to test everything before their game released because there was no way to patch it once it hit the shelves. Now people release games that arent even finished and say "it'll get better". With dbd my attitude lately has been "theres plenty of other games out there. Why should i buy your new chapter or come back for your anniversary event if its going to break the game?".
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Wth is R6S?
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Though we have to admit R6S has a much better scaling to skill, and it's matchmaking. As someone who took a break from Dead by Daylight and played more R6S it was a very nice breather.
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Rainbow Six Siege by Ubisoft.
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Actually the civilization thing was apologized for not too long after in a blog post on steam.
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I've played both sides for over 4k hours now and I want to see the game improve on both sides
I personally tend to get really irritated by people on the forums, reddit or facebook groups that carry themselves as bigger fans of the game/community than even me (when I have way more experience/playtime than a lot of them) but then they have terribly biased perspectives that leans too far in either direction. I can admit I personally have less respect for the opinions of people that only play Killer or Survivor instead of mastering both which might be harsh on my end. IMO though how can you truly know a game if you only play 50% of it? That doesn't make you a bad person or player but I don't see how you can really debate balance or game health with people that play a lot of both at the medium-highest level.
This makes balance discussions an endless circle of pointlessness because people with limited information and perspectives are trying to speak down on people that have played in tournaments, stream DBD for a living or just have a legitimate amount of experience required to form objective thoughts on the state of the game. On the flipside, there's a lot of disgruntled vets like me that don't fully remember how to put ourselves in the shoes of brand new players that don't have the well of knowledge that we do. We lost touch because we've been around so long that we can't see not everybody knows the history. This forms a roadblock in communication and we gotta do better
I think both sides of the coin (myself included) should do better to bridge the gap and try to make discussions or debates more of a universal thing instead of an echo chamber for either side. If I had to pick which side is a bit more frustrating and harder to work with though I'd say casual/low-skilled players are harder to communicate with
Example: I recently saw a DBD FB group post about how Ghostface is unfair and OP because he can turn his terror radius off. According to the OP and a few dozen commenters he's broken because he can be silent and also one-shot people with his stalk. I explained in an extremely polite way that its more of a lack of experience than him being broken and even left great advice on how to counter him considering I mained him for over a year...
I got met with multiple laugh reacts, taunting and insults from literal rookies that are convinced they know more on the topic and that I'M the one being biased towards Killer because I don't see the issue with him. Its kinda hard to take the community serious when this happens on both sides on a daily basis... This is literally the only PvP community I've seen in my life where people at the lowest rating with less than several hundred hours will legit speak down in nasty ways to players with 2-15,000 hours that have mastered most or all aspects of macro/micro
I don't think we're gods for playing a video game for a long time or mastering it, We're also wrong on a lot of topics too but yeah. I don't see how a community can get anywhere where people at the entry level view themselves as equal to those who have been here from the start 5 years ago to see all the ups and downs. Its kind of insulting in a way, however we also shouldn't forget that newer players should be welcomed and encouraged to get better at their craft so they too can reach the point where they can be considered a vet. We should all do better and I personally have to try harder at being more patient. Its admittedly hard though with some people that are desperate to be a victim or too whiny
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I never thought I’d be using the term victim-blaming in regards to DbD. But here we are. DbD players are victims of dev indifference, inaction, and incompetence - not the other way around.
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My post is all based on personal experience, so take what you will from it.
I'm a solo queue survivor most of the time. I started this game right around the time Stranger Things came out. This was before a lot of changes, but significantly, before SBMM. It's my belief that "S"BMM (it requires no skill whatsoever) is the reason that the community has become worse.
The need to play like a "tryhard" is directly proportionate to the implementation of SBMM. Because of how rudimentary the requirements are for your skill rank, most people have to play in completely different ways than they would have previously. This has made the game fundamentally less enjoyable overall for everyone other than the best SWFs. You "rank" up in skill, you face tryhard squads and sweaty killers. You "rank" down in skill, you face baby killers AND baby teammates who don't know what they're doing to help the team.
To be fair, there are a lot of issues besides this one, of course. But nothing is as glaringly detrimental to the game in my eyes as SBMM. I haven't played in months because of it, and I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of players who feel the same.
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I've never seen "game is balancing around pros grrrr", if anything, plenty of people mocked BHVR for changing twins based on so called "high MMR" when pretty much everything is balanced around "average" players.
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If you rank up in skill, you are tryhard player and should be matched with them (because otherwise it will be bullying baby killers/squads) and if you rank down in skill, you should face baby survs and killers because you are baby player.
I don't see what's wrong with it, really.
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Yeah sure, if the requirements for ranking weren't so laughably basic, which was the entire first thing I said in my post.
I can be camped to death on first hook multiple matches in a row, and because I died every time, start facing baby killers. I have 3k hours in the game. I have no business looping a baby killer for 5 gens without getting hit once. That isn't an accurate skill based ranking.
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Your situation only tells that this system is working perfectly.
So you can't win against good players and can win against bad players, I don't see what's wrong with it.
Any games does work like that, you will win till you can't, you will lose till you can't.
Your skill is somewhere between those campers and those babies.
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I hear what you're saying. The game is by no means "perfect", but this community isn't any better.
While I don't believe everyone is this way, there is a segment of this community (the bad apples) that (for whatever reason) they continue to be present and negative no matter what good or bad comes out.
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In an asymmetrical game with luck, random generating, and people who can dictate the outcome FOR you, this is not sensible.
Being camped to death on first hook, whether you run a killer for one gen or all 5, does not mean you have no skill and should face people new to the game. This kind of thinking is irrational and unhelpful to the game health, so I'm glad you don't have any say on balancing lol.
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What is R6S?
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It's possible no matter what as this is PvP games.
There can be "skill gap" to the point you can win regardless of luck, random generating(isn't it luck), and people who can dictate the outcome for you, then you won't match (often) against them, that's good thing.
Being camped to death on first hook after 5 gens DOES mean you have less skill than that killer, there is plenty of chance to get out of sight, there is a way to not be caught in first place too.
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Rainbow 6 Siege a pretty popular tactical FPS with the exact same content schedule as DBD for the most part.
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The majority of stuff in this game is balanced and most complaints are just skill issue.
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We can't do anything except crying about it. Devs will never fix matchmaking for example. This game gon die like every other game
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Me with 13 k hours i can straight up tell mmr killed dbd bc everyone sees now how hardcore survivor sided that game is it dosent matter which killer you play if they all play dead hard bt unbreakable ds you will not win if they literally only want to win normal swfs would try to save the teammate but since mmr is out every round feels like the round before dh and keep W dosent matter what killer you play four mans will win against every kiler since they killed nurse sbd spirit obe dh cost both killers the whole round that is just sad to see how the game is now dying
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As someone who plays rainbow activly I can say that dbd is really mmr based
The problem is more likely whith the perks and the devs balancing..
Maybe make it so if 4 frends are in the same lobby EVEN if they joined 2 sepreat lobby and got into the match by accident they get a rebuff like 20% slower repair speed
And the effect applies to every surviver that is frends whith the other thru steam, ps or Xbox live
Or overall make it so gens take a little longer
Im a surviver main.. A pretty bad one at that but I do play killer and I know for sure that when I see a swf group I'm dead...
The game is team work based and perks used in combinations are too op
They should also separate the game to a non ranked and ranked matchmaking
Both with different mmr
In siege for example casual also has an mmr rank and for me it's silver 3 so the game pair me up whith players the same casual mmr rank or close if possible so it checks kills deaths assists points survival rate and so on.
Include that into dbd like for killer the time between hooks, the time it takes to end a chase time between gen repairs and kills that match
And for survivers
Time between gens, gens helped to repair chases escaped whitout switching from healthy to injured state, escapes, hook saves and so on
And now whith the debuff pro swf have to actually try, killers don't feel like they are getting bullied and the match making is fixed whith pros who want a higher rank for a special cosmetic for the x and Y surviver every 1-3 months can just play ranked
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