http://dbd.game/killswitch
The only thing the Onryo needs
The green addon which gives a survivor who completed a heal action one condemned as base kit.
The thing that makes her weak is the easy counter to her hit and run gameplay which is just to heal up really quick. Especially since CoH exists its even weaker and gives the Onryo barely any pressure. However if this addon would be baseline to her there would be a point to keep going with the hit and run gameplay cuz you can build up condemned and therefore pressure/slowdown which is imo a really cool mechanic and adds also some kind of strategic teamplay against her, with this you cannot just brain dead heal up every time against her with your team.
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The only thing? Lol no.
However a good step in a right direction? Sure.
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That's not a terrible idea, but doesn't really fix her.
Her issues are:
- Awful 'stealth' that barely even allows to close, combined with no dash and people can just run through you while you demanifest.
- Why does she have a lullaby?
- Absolutely no anti-loop.
- Her height makes for zero visibility in grass - reminding me of Blight on release.
- Survivors have zero reason to interact with TVs until they are very close to max condemn.
- TV spawn logic can put TVs on the wrong floor, facing a wall, under a duck.
- About half her yellow and brown addons should be baked in - as when using them she actually feels 'okay'.
- TV emergence is incredibly telegraphed and it's insanely easy to just go to the nearest safe loop.
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What else does she need?
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Remove Lullaby, lower her TVs cooldowns and buff a bit the condement effect. Bigger / longer speed boost after teleport to a TV wouldn't be bad either.
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Does it increase condemn when they use self-care? if it doesn't, coh still hard counters her.
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I think the no collision is a good thing and should remain. Ye the lullaby is dumb agree but she doesnt need an anti loop, she is not supposed to be an anti loop killer. I dont see any problem with her height hoenstly, also ye with my idea there would be an reason to use TVs. Tv spawn logic is a pretty sure a bug. And the emergence is actually fine imo, atleast idk what to do against that.
Again keep in mind that just like Clown or Doctor her power is not designed to be strong, she is just an stealth killer which you should view more as a fun killer, not a comp killer.
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No but you could also implement that but I feel this could be then abit too strong, not sure though.
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I like your idea of adding an extra way to get condemned that also helps her style of play. If this killer had an anti-loop she would just get nerfed because she would just be to strong. If anything (again it's been barely 2 days so) these small little tweaks I think are a good start. I don't want mori's to be something that happens often but like someone told me yesterday (I don't remember who) they should have to pay attention to it and at least fear it some (like an activated Pig trap, chain hunt, etc).
I kind of messed up with my opinion yesterday not that I think she is weak like everyone says but not everyone has the same experiences which I need to do better to remember that....along with the rest of the community to be honest.
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I agree, this addon is pure fire, the idea of survivors being able to pass condemned to another is very good, it makes this mechanic much more useful, but still the onryō would not be a decent killer.
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Why isn't her power designed to be strong?
Do we need another 'below average' killer? Shouldn't we be trying to get below average killers up to snuff rather than adding more?
The issue isn't just her lack of anti-loop. It's that the rest of her toolkit also sucks. Her stealth sucks and her slowdown mechanic sucks. If her stealth was better and survivors actually had to interact with TVs more, she'd be...honestly still not great but better.
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Yea I am fine with her beeing an non anti loop hit and run killer, but atm atleast with all those fancy heal perks we got its just way too weak (wraith and pig suffer from it alot aswell) so the best way to approuch it is to simply give her a kind of extra "reward" for this playstyle and I think this way it supports it very well.
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Agree she would be better, but still just average and that still isnt what you want. Thats what I mean with she isnt designed to be strong, her power simply doesnt give her enough pressure or lethality, doesnt matter how much you tweak her condemned or TVs, its just the power itsself that lacks which is fine imo. Not every Killer has to be strong. Again look at Doctor, is he that bad? No. Is he good? No. But he is still very well balanced, probably one of the moist balanced killers.
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Doctor is infinitely better than Onryo though. He has an anti-loop, a locator and a passive slowdown that actually works. The only thing that holds him back is the latency issues with his power and an overreliance on addons. If you wanted to use Doctor as a metric for balancing Onryo, she needs a gigantic honking buff to nearly every aspect of her kit.
To the second, I disagree - I think that all killers should be strong. Not Nurse or Blight level, but at least Demo level.
To me, Demogorgon is the gold standard of killer balance Not too strong, not too weak. And comparing Demo to Onryo is like comparing a Dodge Journey to a Dodge Nitro. One is a perfectly fine midrange van, one isn't.
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The Ring Drawing Add-on being basekit would for sure help her, but I personally think she should have shorter TV cooldowns
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Ye compared Doc with Onryo alone he is much better, but tbh every killer except Legion or Clown is much better then her xD Maybe some arguments about myers or ghostface aswell depends I guess.
I dont personally see any possible buffs that would make her on the same level except reworking condemned completly imo.
I agree with demo, hes a good boy <3
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IDK guys I must be high but I don't think Ghostface, Myers, Doc, etc should be mentioned in the same sentence as Ringu. Doc is with out a doubt better than Mike/Ghosty but not better than her IMO. Not obviously my opinion on her is different than a lot of people but regardless of her CD, no anti-loop, etc I would still bring her over Mike, Ghosty, Wraith, Doc, Legion, NOT CLOWN (I really like Clown and also disagree that he is weak....well at least as weak as claimed).
So far in the 2 days I have got to play her I rate her higher because of the map pressure I have been able to apply. I can't apply that same pressure to the map with those characters mentioned. That alone makes her better IMO but yes the condemned should be slightly better and getting down can be rough SOMETIMES.
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Thats actually a pretty good idea that would give her condemned an actual threat and give her a solid direction to go with for her gameplay. Which at the moment is what she's lacking. She has the skillset, but doesn't have the direction.
For example, you pick up say Myers, he has a clear direction in gameplay, you roll up stalk people build meter, stab them.
Pig: Crouch>stab people>cage them
Trapper: Run loops>set traps>hit
She needs a gameplay loop thats more clear than what she currently has. And theres parts of her kit that prohibit that.
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I'm seeing this trend of "She isn't strong enough" like do some of you only play killers who are solid A tier+?
Is there something wrong with having killers who aren't immediately incredibly powerful/broken and people being excited for a character just because they like them and want to play as them regardless of their power level
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Doctor is better than Onryo because his gameplay is just solid, functional, and fluid. He has a clear gameplay loop that is effective no matter what.
You walk around>shock people>reap the benefits of the shock>hit people.
His power is intuitive.
Onyro's power is not intuitive and 100% based on guess work unless you carry stacks of tracking perks. <----In which case you could have done that on any other killer making your decision to subsidize her power even more unintuitive.
They didn't give this chapter enough respect imo. They didn't even give her face something more akin to the movie.
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We want killers that are viable all the way around. You may enjoy a killer, but when you keep getting smashed because of that killers inherent weaknesses in higher level play, it can ruin the fun of said killer.
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Eh, demo is kinda underwhelming imo, i don't think he should be the standard of "balanced" I don't know who should, but I don't think it should be demo
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And is there something wrong with not wanting another C tier killer that's gonna sit at the bottom for like a year until the devs actually glance at her again?
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I wrote like 2 comments above that it is fine for her beeing weak since she isnt designed to be strong. But this doesnt mean that a whole mechanic of her should be so weak that you can literally ignore it the entire game.
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honestly she is pretty strong if she can get her game plan to work. The problem is there is a lot that the survivor's can to to just stop her from getting pressure. One of the biggest problems is CoH if its up you have to get rid of it and its not always easy but the one that im starting to see the most is just w key away and there isn't anything she can do.
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The only thing the onryo need is anti loop power.
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no she doesnt
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I disagree.
The only thing Sadako needs is the ability to see each survivors condemned stage. That would allow her to target survivors more strategically. Otherwise, I think she's in a decent spot.
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I'd disagree, I'd rather old newspaper base than that addon.
She could do with a few tweaks for sure but damn do I love that old newspaper addon lol. By far one of her best
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How do you want to target specific condemned survivors if they dont even get to a higher stage of it? Its really hard to condemned survivors, the addon I mentioned does it easier but it is not okey that a addon makes a very underwhelming mechanic playable.
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What does it do again if you dont mind explaining?
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Basically when you demanifest the time you're invisible is longer, it creates some antiloop and mindgame potential at basic loops.
Best addon imo and it's only a brown, it makes her have abit better 1v1 when you hold the pallet etc.
If I was greedy I'd ask for the old newspaper and telephone addons as base, I'd be a very happy man.
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its a cool addon ye but I dont know if that is important enough to be in base kit. I think her "demanifest" is okey enough atm, I think she needs more adjustments on the condemned since it basicly does nothing without addons.
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She needs soooooo much it's unreal. Kinda embarrassing anyone thought she was a good idea for a viable killer.
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I agree with the Ring Drawing. I also think there should be a base kit passive increase to Condemnation if the survivors spend x seconds (20? 30? 40?) within so many meters of a powered TV. It's lore appropriate and would make survivors interact with TVs. Sit on a gen by a powered TV? Get two Condemn stacks and now it's a decision to make.
Right now, the best thing to do against her Condemned just seems to be ignore TVs unless you actually get forced to interact with one. Then just keep an eye on the TV. As soon as you see her emerge run like hell and just go back to the gen once she's out looped.
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No one said she is a viable killer, Killers are not created to be the new top tier Killer. Especially for license chapters they dont have that much freedome, they have to stick to the character of the Killer and the source material.
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But she should be at the very least viable. Viable doesn’t mean tip tier, but she shouldn't be this poor, no way
And she'd be 100% better if they stuck to source.
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she is definatly viable, maybe we just have different views on what is viable but imo it is an exaggeration calling her "not viable". She is easily mid tier which are the majority of Killers.
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Remove the lullaby, improve her stealth, make condemned something to think about, tv placement and mechanic.
Improve any of these and I would call her viable. Otherwise she is an M1 killer with basically no powers.
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I should add, I respect your opinion, though it differs from my own.
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Eh, condemned is a gimmick and while its be nice to encourage survivors to do it more the last thing I want is more TVs off and not useable. That old newspaper on the other hand is giving me alot of hits at basic loops or early pallet drops.
Each to their own though, but the devs dont want you to get kills remember and the more they interact with tvs the worse your map mobility and pressure goes
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Even with all your suggestions she will remain an M1 killer without powers xD
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Nah, she'd at least have actual stealth.
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Fun killer? Not a comp killer?
Then "just for fun" killers should have their SBMM rating capped to keep them away from competitive survivors if they're not going to balance them.
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Agreed. Survivors can just turn off your TVs and work on gens without worrying about the condemned mechanic. It's just too weak right now. I love Sadako but she's just not that good.
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Exactly, her condemned itsself is a great idea and I am pretty sure she will jump high in the tier list if it will become actually a threat.
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I killed 3 people with condemned last Sadako game I had. It's not as weak as you think it is.
Admittedly, I usually only get 1 person every other game. I consider it more of a generator slow down ability than something I'm going to get consistently. However, being able to target survivors would make it much stronger.
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