In your opinion is hug tech an exploit?
Comments
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No, it's not an exploit and should be kept in game
Hug tech was unintended originally, but that doesn't mean it cannot become accepted. Looping was unintended originally, but became accepted. Other such things (such as CJ tech) also takes advantage of there only being one button for pallet break as well as pick up, but it is accepted (to my knowledge). Legion has the tech where they can get blinded mid-vault to be able to exit Frenzy to swing normally which takes advantage of not being able to be stunned mid-vault, but being blinded ending Frenzy. So on and so forth.
Also, hug tech adds depth to what the Blight and survivor in chase can do, because it gives more possibilities from either side. Hug tech is fully counterable via mindgaming (anyone curious can ping/ask me and I can give them explanations), and it means mindgaming as/against Blight is "Are they going to use bump logic? Will they hug?" Rather than just "Where will they bump logic from?" which gives a lot more skill expression because there is more possible complexity in chase.
Without hug tech, some map locations can be hard counters, which is not healthy design. Neither side should have a hard counter to the other in chase. Chases should be won and lost off of player skill, not off mechanical restrictions like the setup of the map location which is out of their control. The closest a chase is to a permanent 50/50 based off mindgames, the healthier it is. You make the right mindgame, you win the trade. You make the wrong mindgame, you lose the trade. So on and so forth. Every tile and location should be an equal back-and-forth chance based off who is more skilled at making the correct mindgame or read in an instance.
Post edited by SuzuKR on7 -
No, it's not an exploit and should be kept in game
It is an exploit, but a fun one and should be kept in the game.
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Yes it's a exploit and should be removed
Blight is already the second best killer in the game without it, and the original creator of Blight has said it's unintended.
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No, it's not an exploit and should be kept in game
He's the second best in part BECAUSE he has it. It gives much more complex back-and-forth in chase in a skillful way for both the survivor and the killer, and allows for more well-designed chase on more tiles instead of having certain areas that are hard counters out of one's control and makes skill irrelevant.
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Yes it's a exploit and should be removed
If it wasn't intended, it's an exploit.
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No, it's not an exploit and should be kept in game
Third*
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Yes it's a exploit and should be removed
I think it's an exploit
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Yes it's a exploit and should be removed
BHVR pretty much confirmed it is an exploit.
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Yes it's a exploit and should be removed
The only issue is - if they remove it, they basically are flipping the bird to killer mains.
It is an exploit and gives an illegitimate advantage to Blight mains. However, this is not how things should go.
There's a reason why Blight and Nurse are so strong. There's a reason why they're also no fun to play against in these circumstances.
Yes, they should patch it so that this exploit is no longer a concern for players. However, they should find a very small way to Buff the blight to balance it out.
If all the top players are only winning matches because of an exploit, make sure you do more than REMOVE the exploit. Or else you're sending a lot of players home empty handed.
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No, it's not an exploit and should be kept in game
And yet… Both Nurse and Blight remains balanced at even the highest levels of play even. It by no means is uncounterable, either. It’s a 50/50 mindgame back and forth that promotes skill, since it means more possible mindgames for both.
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Yes it's a exploit and should be removed
Way to go - you failed at reading comprehension.
Blight has a good balance at high levels. Yes. But high level play involves these exploits. If you remove the exploit, you remove it from the 'balanced' high level play. You're going to have to put something back into the Blight to keep it balanced at higher ranks if the people who use these tactics are yielding 'balanced' results.
And something we've seen a lot from the dev team, generally, is their blatant incapability to understand numbers. According to their statisticians - old DS was fine and balanced (50/50) and needed no change. They also argued that old Object Of Obsession needed no rework, because it did not give any advantage to players.
Just because Behavior is releasing 'conclusive' data doesn't mean diddly. Never rely on their statements.
Logically, though, if you take a strong tool away from a GOOD thing - you're going to have to put something back to keep it GOOD.
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No, it's not an exploit and should be kept in game
Just cause something was originally intended doesn't mean it is unable to become accepted as intended. This is exactly what happened with the early design of DBD way back in 2016. DBD was originally a hide-and-seek oriented game, not a chase-oriented one. That's why infinites existed, because they were never meant to be chased around. People realized looping is possible, and started doing that instead of hiding. Since the community was a fan of it, the game got rebalanced around chases instead of hide-and-seek, and that's why loops were readjusted and made to not be infinites, etc.
Hug tech adds mindgaming depth to a chase, because it allows for more options for both sides in an interactive manner. Without it, there are some things that can be hard counters, which is not good gameplay design. Chases should come down to whoever is more skilled, not things out of one's control like map/object generation RNG. And succeeding at mindgaming/baiting false reads is the expression of exactly that. It comes down to whoever is better at adapting to and reading the opponent. It makes more chases and areas a 50/50, based off whoever makes the right read/play. Everything about hug tech can be countered via mindgames. Just make the right read. This is exactly what experienced players do versus experienced Blights.
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Yes it's a exploit and should be removed
I think you're getting way too far into the philosophical element of meta evolution.
In truth, Blight gliding around corners because he's looking down isn't some form of meta strategy like looping or chasing that is a core part of player interaction - it's just a failure to validate collision.
Blight was not intended for this, not because Behavior wasn't creative enough to think about it (Like loops and such) but moreover, it's because the Blight was designed to run in straight lines and use bumping to flick around and change trajectory. By using collision validation against the system, people are running around corners, and that is not what the killer is about - not in design, nor in practice. Survivors should know if they are safe by running around a corner from a blight, because it is part of his Kit. Allowing such an inconsistency into the kit is not professional for any developer. If they wanted to make Hugging a strategy element, they could add code to make it possible - but less difficult with more tokens expended - you can't hug for the first 2 dashes, but the latter 3 are increasingly more 'huggable'.
Right there. That's how you bring something into the meta and make it clear to both sides the rules of engagement.
As is, saying that an exploit is a feature because 'look at looping and Bloodlust! it's exactly the same!' is not a valid argument to be made.
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No, it's not an exploit and should be kept in game
Uh. First of all, sliding was LITERALLY an intended mechanic developed by his creator, explicitly attached to his camera angle for that reason. The only unintended thing was removing collision by starting hugging the object already, not the sliding by looking down. Blight’s Lethal Rush has two collision components. One is his model direction itself. The other is attached to his camera and can thus be intentionally shrunk by looking down. You are literally not intended to be safe just cause you turn a corner. That would be an incredibly dumb hard counter that has no relation to actual skill input. Hard counters are bad design, because something out of one’s control takes precedence over player vs player mindgame skill.
Second of all, any exact item will ALWAYS have the same collision as itself. For instance, Yamaoka’s shack. It will ALWAYS be the same collision (unless BHVR updates the map itself entirely). For instance, a tractor on Coldwind. It will ALWAYS have the same collision as all exact tractors like that (ie, the exact same truck model regardless where it’s copy pasted by RNG generation on Coldwind). The Blight and survivors both learn that and thus they know what each can do around any given object/tile. Collision is always consistent to its own specific object.
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Yes it's a exploit and should be removed
Yes.
Are you on a roll with proving my point?
And just because the mechanic is CREATED by the devs does not mean that its use was INTENDED. That's akin to saying 'There's an eyewash station in the bathroom, thus my employers must have INTENDED for me to use it as a urinal.
If someone is using ushu-wushu logic to justify an inexplicable and niche outcome that is being exploited by the top players as 'intentional' - it's a backwards argument.
In no way in Blights forward facing design was he intended to run around corners - he was given several rushes to encourage him to use angles to maneuver corners. If players have him running around corners, then you got yourself a confliction.
(Also, I never at any point said that collision itself is random, but that what does and doesn't allow for slides is seemingly random. It's trial and error that only seasoned players will find through unclear experience. This is not a design choice - it is a fluke. There is NO game mechanic that has ever been intended by developers that works in CERTAIN circumstances that are only discoverable through sheer trial and error. So yeah, thanks for disproving your first point in the second?)
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Yes it's a exploit and should be removed
*Cough Cough*
Hug tech users: 💁🏼♀️
So you see? It is an exploit no matter what you use it for.
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No, it's not an exploit and should be kept in game
You mean, like Blight’s creator literally talking about how one of his collision components is intentionally attached to his camera? And talking about how BHVR explicitly made a sliding mechanic for him so he could do so, and improving sensitivity so console could do it easier as well? The analogy would be the eye wash sink was put there to wash eyes. And explicitly said it’s for that reason.
What allows and doesn’t allow sliding is fairly consistent with only a few map specific exceptions (eg, Yamaoka shack). All of it can be memorized, and the general rule is if it hits your feet before it hits your face/body, you will slide. For example, a snow pile that starts low (closer to your feet) in a kind of pyramid like way. In comparison, most shacks (a completely flat vertical for most part, you hit with face unless you look down).
You should research what you’re talking about first.
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No, it's not an exploit and should be kept in game
I'm not sure whether or not to class it as an exploit, but I think it's a really cool trick. The counter is to simply run away from the loop when you see it coming or stay closer to one side of a loop if it's not hug teachable (whilst the other side is).
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