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Dead Hard for distance.
So we all know bhvr is looking at Dead Hard, and they have said they don't like the distance part. I have seen some content creators trying to push the idea that the i frames are the issue with the perk and not the distance. This may be slightly true for ranged killers, but for everyone else the distance is the most aggravating part about the perk.
I am so tired of making a survivor go to the dead side of a loop or making them hesitate, only for them to just hit the undo key and Dead Hard to the pallet or window without any say from the killer. There is no counter to this and it just feels so bad. I wouldn't be as annoyed if the survivor was able to time the i frames when i swing because that actually takes some effort.
Don't listen to them! the distance is the problem.
If you can convince me otherwise, then have a go.
Comments
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I agree they are, but i also know bhvr will not change the perk to something else. They are only going to change the i frames or the distance.
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both are a problem, but the distance is the MAIN problem. it's completely uncounterable by m1 killers so even if bhvr removes the i frames the distance will still be there and it'll still be uncounterable. And with how much people use dead hard like this it makes bhvr need to make ranged killers or people will not be having fun at all with new m1 killers without feeling ripped off by dead hard. *cough cough onryo*
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I don't play billy or blight so i guess that's why i get more distance users compared to i frame users.
Huntress sees I frame use, but the bad survivors that can't time it use it to get behind cover quickly before i get a chance to use my hatchets. The distance version could still be used to just dodge it at range like nothing has changed.
Oni occasionally gets an i frame user, but most survivors use it to get to a window or pallet and e for distance would still out pace oni's bash like nothing has changed.
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Distance 100% most DH uses are for distance, I dont get the point of removing the i frames tbh.
It's so situational that you'll use the perk to avoid a hit especially a ranged one, I kind of like the idea of DH being used to dodge range/antiloop attacks it gives it a decent purpose.
The distance just screws over every basic attack killer there is, doesnt matter if you outplay them at a tile the DH distance can save them most of the time.
Removing distance makes basic attack killers not so weak, who knows I might actually verse some of them now
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In my opinion, when I play killer I just don’t like the iframes of dead hard. The distance part is not a big deal to me.
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It's a pretty amusing conundrum....
If they remove the distance, most of their stats/balancing data will fly right out the window.
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I think they said they don't like how it can be used both for distance or to correct a mistake, so it's not exactly clear if they are looking the remove the distance part.
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Now it feels even worse that people are trying to convince them that the i frames are the problem...
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It’s still “press E for free health state”. Imagine if killers had a perk where they could press “activate ability” to expose a survivor mid-chase for a short time and then just insta-down them. That would be the equivalent to what survivors have with DH. No way the devs would ever allow a perk like that to exist.
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Another idea: make DH a boon perk
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Well, the distance and the i-frames complement each other perfectly, so many mistakes could not be corrected by pressing 'E' if either one was removed. If they remove distance, you just have to wait and hit after they do it. If they remove the i-frames, then you can just hit them mid animation, unless they're in front of you and use it to make to a pallet/window, but they could no longer lose a mind game and press 'E' in panic to safety. The thing is, all other exhaustion perks already do this, they enable the survivor to get to another safe location they couldn't if the perk wasn't equipped, specially Balanced Landing and Lithe. And both the distance and the i-frames have specific problems against certain types of killers. Sure, for m1 killers it's the distance, but so is lithe, bl, sb, and now even "overcome". But I digress, I'm just saying the answer is not so simple as just "it's this" or "it's that".
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The point is that a perk effect which is already strong (i.e. lunging for distance) doesn’t need a secondary effect that’s also pretty good. So yeah, Dead Hard for distance but without invulnerability would still be useful and popular but it objectively wouldn’t be as good as the current version simply because those instances where the attack evasion was useful can’t happen.
If they remove the invincibility and it turns out the perk is still overpowered, then all they need to do is reduce the distance a bit as well.
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Removing the invincibility seems simpler from a technical POV too. No more DH validation needed.
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If they remove I-frames you wont exactly have to wait for dead hard anymore. You also wouldn't have to worry about them dead Harding through you or fov teching you just to make it to the pallet and keep dh. To me dh is a very iffy topic. Yeah dh for distance sucks but when a player fov techs you just to make yourself seconded guess weather they might dh only to make it to a pallet without using it. I dont know its hard thing to say as I've done this before.
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Then how would you rework Dead Hard? I frames and the small distance leap is all the perk has.
The I frames themself I do not see as a problem. It's already very unlikely to time a Dead Hard against a killer who knows you have Dead Hard.
If they only removed the distance part of Dead Hard, I doubt many people would still use that perk anyways. Dead Hard just for I-frames won't be very viable.
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Regardless of what salty streamers attempt to push, the devs are aware that distance IS the main issue.
Dead Hard was originally just used for the i-frames, the dash was a secondary benefit, especially as it was often used out in the open, not near loops. Then when the devs changed the game from P2P to dedicated servers and hit validations weren't a thing yet after changing to dedicated servers, most Dead Hard users considered it unusable for the invincibility effect.
This led to the realization that the secondary effect, the dash, could still be used to gain distance, which when done close to pallets or windows, would allow one to reach them. Since Dead Hard's i-frames remained iffy for quite a while, that eventually became the perk's main use.
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This is a ridiculous statement. If this statement were true then every endurance perk is a problem because they all give you distance.
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This game would be much better without the streamersplaining. Im tired of being told Im just simply wrong about the game in a smug way.
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Removing I frames is the worse choice tbh, it just makes stronger killers stronger and weaker ones weaker.
I dont want that, I'd rather the distance gone so I can verse a bigger range of killers. But the devs mentioned distance so I'm very hopeful
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The perk shouldn't be overnerfed, for me it would be enough to remove the invincibility and leave the distance factor anyway, because removing both would result in a terrible perk that no one would use anymore.
We want to balance a perk, not killing it.
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Why would distance from Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced Landing or Overcome any different than distance from Dead Hard. I play both sides and it amazes me that Killer-mains are so hung up on Dead Hard. As a Killer, Dead Hard is a none issue for me. You can literally bait it out. Heck, if you don't bait it out, it's still a much shorter speed burst than any of the other endurance perks. As a survivor, I just don't use it, I find Sprint Burst just a much better endurance perk. Or Overcome.
I guess your "survivor bias" strawman fell apart pretty quickly.
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I hate the distance and when DH eats the killers power, if I'm playing Huntress than I should get my hatchet back.
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Distance is the issue yes, Iframes can be annoying but not as much as the distance.
Another issue is also how the perk still bricks the game and causes freezes/stutters on some systems and maps.
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The dh for distance is uncounterable. If the perk just gave you i frames then you would need to time it correctly, which would require skill to use.
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I love playing as killer sometimes, and I admit DeadHard is stressing sometimes, but I don't think it should need a rework, other killers just cry a lot about this perk, and I think this is ridiculous.
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When I play Killer, I don't have issues with Dead Hard. I don't know why you do but if you want me to watch your game play, I can probably help you figure it out.
Since the developers have said that the kills to escape ratio for killers is hovering around 50%, I assume that you are getting much lower than a 50% kill ratio because of your inexperience with Dead Hard, which could definitely cause frustration. There's a lot of good videos that inexperienced killer players can watch to help them learn more of the simplistic aspects of the game.
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The more you start to nerf survivors the faster the game will die. Wish people would keep that in mind.
There are killers like Nurse, Blight, Huntress, Oni, Spirit and Hillbilly when put enough time a practice into you can 4k almost every game just through raw mechanical skill. This isint mentioning running 4 slowdowns either.
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100% the distance is the problem.
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Survivor mains: “the way to deal with DH is just use S-tier killers!”
Also survivor mains: “we’re sick of facing the same S-tier killers every match!”
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They will not do this.
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They won't do this. They are only choosing between they greater of two evils. Distance or i frames.
if they remove the i frames then deadhard will remain the same for probably 80-90% of interactions and still be complained about because there is no counter for distance.
If they remove the distance the the killer is rewarded for pulling off a mind game or zoning a survivor and then it becomes a game of reactions. Can the killer bait out the i frames or can the survivor guess correctly. If the survivor succeeds then they get the swing cooldown to make it to the pallet or window and it doesn't feel as bad for the killer because you actually had a chance.
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Still doing this on last gen? I gave the game a go on my launch day xbox one and ps4 just for fun when they launched nemesis... it was awful.
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Depends what killer you play and the survivors you face. I agree that bad survivors make dead hard look useless. Its always fun watching them face plant a wall or E out into open space for no reason.
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That is certainly possible. But who knows? 🤷♂️
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They actually said they don't like how survivors are using DH for distance and that's what they are looking into. More than likely they will keep the Iframes and remove the distance. Probably will change the animation making It look like they are doing like a bullet dodge or something.
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People crying about the perk is justified. You have to do absolutely nothing to use the perk other than being injured. Then you get to press the funny button for distance and add another 30 seconds at least to the chase which is enough to complete a gen before the killer gets there after you get hooked. Meanwhile if you went down before that the killer could have at least pressured that gen and gotten another down for it.
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true and like all endurance perks you have to do something to get that distance
Sprint Burst don't run till needed
Lithe performing a rushed vault
Balanced Landing When falling from great heights
Overcome getting hit by the killer
but Dead hard it just a press of the button oh and you got to be injured🙄
so yea Dead hard for distance need to go or be shortened by a lot.
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So each endurance perk, including Dead Hard, need to be activated somehow. This means Dead Hard needs to be nerfed.
I'm so glad the developers don't listen to these forums except to amuse themselves, some of the most over-the-top things are said on here. I would have sworn this post was satire it's so self-unaware.
This post, and other posts like it on this threat, is the reason Dead Hard isn't going to be nerfed. No one who wants it nerfed can articulate why they want it nerfed.
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"No one who wants it nerfed can articulate why they want it nerfed."
*rolls eyes into space*
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You can kinda counter I-frame, you can't counter distance.
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People want it nerfed because:
-it grants a free Health State, which no other Exhaustion Perk grants
-it can be activated whenever, unlike any other Exhaustion Perk
-Dead Hard Validation straight up denies Killer Powers (confirmed to be a bug)
-it probably has the lowest risk-highest reward among Exhaustion Perks
-renders mindgames useless, unlike any other Exhaustion Perk
-using Dead Hard for distance is uncounterable
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No idea why you're blatantly spreading misinformation as "No one who wants it nerfed can articulate why they want it nerfed."
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How am I spreading misinformation? What'd I say
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If there is sound logic to your arguments, I am willing to change my opinion and even more so if there was data (which I think would be easy enough to gather).
I want you to understand where I'm coming from. I play both sides but tend to play survivor slightly more than killer because my friends generally want to play, otherwise I would play more killer. When I play survivor, I don't use Dead Hard because I think Sprint Burst and Overcome are superior because they give more speed burst time and you can control the direction of your speed burst, unlike Dead Hard.
When I make these counter statements to your arguments, I'm not making them to be mean or because I care about Dead Hard being nerfed. I am making them because I don't understand the logic behind these arguments. I also doubt anything I say on these forums will do anything to what the developers are planning. I doubt they even read these forums, judging by how bad the game design is right now.
-it grants a free Health State, which no other Exhaustion Perk grants
Dead Hard is different from a free health state. When you are hit and lose a health state, you get a 2 or 3 second speed boost and have maneuverability during that speed boost. When you exaggerate, the people on the other-side of the argument see this as an exaggeration and tend to ignore the argument because they feel as if you really don't have anything backing your statements since you resorted to exaggerating.
-it can be activated whenever, unlike any other Exhaustion Perk
Sort of. Lithe, Balanced Landing and Sprint Burst can also be activated by specific player input. Sprint Burst is exactly like Dead Hard in this aspect because it requires you to press a button (The shift button) just like Dead Hard (The active button). However, I don't see how this is a problem in the first place, different perks are activated differently. Just because 2 of the exhaustion perks require an activation key doesn't make them better or worse than other perks. It only makes them different.
-Dead Hard Validation straight up denies Killer Powers (confirmed to be a bug)
So this is a bug that will be hopefully be fixed at some point. I don't understand how this matters in an argument for buffing or nerfing anything.
-it probably has the lowest risk-highest reward among Exhaustion Perks
This is an opinion, there's really no way to measure this. For me, Sprint Burst and Overcome and much less risky and much higher rewards because they cannot be baited out or missed. They always work.
-renders mindgames useless, unlike any other Exhaustion Perk
I believe you are saying that if a survivor makes a mistake during a chase, they have the option to use Dead Hard. I agree. Yes a survivor would have 1 chance to correct a mistake made in a chase. It doesn't render mind-games useless, because the survivor still needs to use Dead Hard, so your mind-game draws out a Dead Hard.
If you refine this argument more to show why this means Dead Hard needs to be nerfed maybe gather data.
-using Dead Hard for distance is uncounterable
I just don't understood this argument. No exhaustion perk use for distance is able to be countered.
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Again, I'm trying to understand why Dead Hard out of the other exhaustion perks is in need of a nerf. None of the arguments I've seen against Dead Hard hold much weight as an argument.
To me personally, it seems like there are some killer-players that are bothered by Dead Hard because it is such an in-your-face perk. I think killer-players are noticing Dead Hard because it's similar to a big-flashing-sign; you "see" it because it's used in close chases. If these killer-players took a step back and analyzed it compared to other exhaustion perks, I think they would be surprised at home much more chase times are extended with the other exhaustion perks.
This is only my opinion from what I'm seeing on the forums because I'm not seeing compelling evidence or arguments that suggest otherwise.
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I presented an argument that close-proximity-camping is rewarded in game. A lot of people disagreed, so I did 40 games close-proximity-camping and presented the evidence on the boards. It feels as if this is something that people are so polarized on, that it would be worthwhile to do testing on.
Instead of the daily "Dead Hard" forum post with arguments that don't really hold any weight, why not actually do something that someone will pay attention to.
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What's the downside of deadhard?
Sprintburst limits your mobility around the map or risk being caught without it. The killer can also force you to use it and come back later when they assume you are back at the gen and you won't have it any more. Sprintburst can also be hit through with killer powers.
Lithe, More freedom than sb but you need to think ahead and set it up. There is a chance you are caught in a dead zone with no pallets or windows nearby making it risky. it can also be hit though with killer powers.
Overcome, not much a killer can do about it but follow the survivor and it is quite punishing to slow killers. I hate it, but it is what it is. Probably not complained about because everyone runs dead hard instead and still has weaknesses to killer powers if they get lucky.
Balanced landing... obvious downsides
smash hit, requires skill and a killer that doesn't respect every single pallet.
What's dead hard's weakness? You can have zero awareness and be caught out in the open while injured for some reason with nowhere to E button to?
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Dead Hard for distance is the most OP thing in this game. It's because of the time crunch the killer is on. With gens able to go as fast as they can one dead hard to safety taking away a down can cost you the entire match.
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It was sarcasm, given that you had done the impossible.
"Instead of the daily "Dead Hard" forum post with arguments that don't really hold any weight, why not actually do something that someone will pay attention to."
Given that the devs have said they're looking into it + the fact that you, yourself, wrote a wall of text that you'd like someone to pay attention to, this quote is particularly amusing.
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The thing is, when you take the other exhaustion perks' boosts, they either:
1: require something that's not everywhere (drops, windows, pallets)
2: are only relevant near or at the start of a chase, which can then be reassessed by the killer whether it's worth taking at all
Dead Hard becomes relevant the moment the killer will get the pay-off for investing the time into the chase. That's what sets DH apart from the other exhaustion perks. A sprint burst can be baited, and said chase can be abandoned immediately without much time loss. Lithe, BL and Smash Hit require a specific tile/structure and once seen, can be anticipated. Chases involving the survivors using those perks are then played differently.
Unless the killer has an instadown, DH must be eaten through to achieve the same result. Whether it's a plain dodge of a hit, or a pre-emptive burst of speed, it happens just before the killer would land the hit. To get to that point, the killer has spent a long time chasing the survivor, which is instantly invalidated at the inevitable press of a single button. When pressing the "funny button", the killer just wasted all that time they could better have spent defending pressuring gens. Chases require 3 "hit distance" moments when DH is in play. No other perk does that.
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Another fine purveyor of impossible tasks!
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Very confused what you mean with this. I'm assuming it's in reference to the "spreading misinformation" thing but cba to figure out why you said that.
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