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Too many Dead Hards!
It's basically a proven fact at this point that if you have enough meta perks as survivor, you can overcome anything. Specifically Dead Hard gets you out of jams, or puts you in that much more of an advantage, more than the killer can possibly handle. You can't beat 3 health states on 3-4 survivors. It's impossible. Any time you get close to downing them, they can extend the chase by 30 seconds at will. If you're not an instadown killer, you've automatically given yourself a disadvantage, and even if you are, the survivors don't have to heal, so they can keep their 2 health states again (1 Dead Hard then 1 injured). And the perk does has a downside (since people think killer add-ons having downsides makes them balanced) of a mere 40 seconds, which encourages you to commit to downing them after they've Dead Harded to safety, so you won't have to deal with it again when you see them in the next minute. Especially on maps with god loops *ahem* well designed breakable walls, Dead Hard shows its unfairness. You can't bait out someone getting extra distance so they make it to a no-mindgame, no-gameplay loop. You just have to deal with it.
All these strategies and combos people are saying that makes killer "OP", like Pinky Finger Clown, Alchemist's Ring Blight, Cherry Blossom/Ring Spirit, Pain Resonance/Pop, can have their momentum completely ruined by 1 single Dead Hard. Or DS, which they could have on top of Dead Hard. Doesn't matter if they made a mistake. Their perk bails them out, and unlike "killer second chance perks" (not a real thing), it's active instead of passive. The survivors press a button to gain them extra distance, whereas perks like I'm All Ears and PWYF are either inconsequential or come in at times when you don't need them to/don't come in at times when you need them most.
Why do you think we complain about this perk so much? Because we're not skilled enough to beat it? Because we had 1 bad match? No! It's because the perk is broken and takes no skill! Why would 90% of survivors, or at least those who actually know what they're doing, run it?!
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Agreed, even as a survivor main and maybe it's because I never use it, it's still a stupid perk, not to mention a selfish perk that does nothing but extend chases for a tedious amount.
If Dead Hard was not meta there'd be less camping and tunneling. But then again, there's NOED so DH users can make excuses over that.
Wish both perks were nerfed so that we can play DBD normally again.
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Who thought giving arbitrary distance at any given time at their will is a good choice? it's blatantly broken in game of tag like this..
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Too many killers complain to much about survivor perks. If the devs start nerfing survivor perks the game will die faster then it already is.. Still crazy to me how so many people don’t want to take the time to learn and develop mechanical muscle memory and skill with either Nurse, Blight, Huntress, Spirit, Oni or Hillbilly.
Those killers are so strong against good teams especially Blight and Nurse.
I personally think that 95% of survivors that play DBD currently are awful and inexperienced.
Underrated post^^^
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As long as face camping is viable killers will always do it. No amount of changes to discourage it will ever change that.
As for DH I really don't have much sympathy here. If it gets nerfed, killers will move on to the next thing they want nerfed. That's just how this goes.
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Exhaustion on its own is not enough of a drawback, exhaustion is literally just there so that you can't wombo combo them all together
Exhaustion perks need an extra downside
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Same goes for us survivors too by the way.
But instead of playing the whataboutism game, how about actually facing the problem of DH being too prevalent in every game you play and balancing it according to the facts?
Your logic of not nerfing dead hard simply because "killers will cry over another perk" is moot because it holds no objective argument except for opinionated claims.
Post edited by Voodoo_Thirsty on15 -
Usually if killers are asking for it to get nerfed, it really needs a nerf. Survivors asking for killer nerfs is usually the opposite, which leads to some really out there, pandering to noobs kind of nerfs. Pop nerf, Hillbilly nerf, Wraith nerf, Pinhead nerf, just to name a few. I've heard "Cigar Box is OP", "Adrenaline Vial is OP", "Freddy is OP", "Hag is OP". That makes me wonder "Where does it stop?" because unlike the people saying those things, I actually care about killer. I don't use the role simply to score points in arguments and say how good I am at the game. I'm invested, so I actually take offense when killer gets nerfed and survivor appeasement perks, and survivors get more "win more"/bully tools. This game's balance changes, if the past is anything to go off of, will never legitimately provoke survivors into asking "Where does it stop?" They get instaheals (the ones that would instantly heal you from downed to fully healthy) nerfed, they get fast vaults from any direction/momentum nerfed, they get pallets every 5 feet nerfed. Never* is their way of playing the game at a basic and necessary level intruded upon. That would be like Self-Care or TLs getting nerfed. Killers on the other hand have suffered loss after loss in the power of their info tools (All-Seeing Blood, Compound 32), gen regression tools (Pop, Undying), and even quality of life (Deathslinger, Twins, new survivor animations). And I'm sorry, the buffs pale in comparison.
So you see, there's no agenda for killers here. We never ever think to ourselves, "Now that that's gone, what other strong tools can we take from the survivors? How much more advantage can we gain?" We don't have time, nor are we in the position, to do that. We're just trying, ironically, to survive. Killers have gotten nerfs that would never even be considered under a competent balance team. It feels like we're the ones who are scared, even outside the game because our very ability to have fun with this game is at risk, wondering what will be taken next? What killer/add-on should we go to the forums to plead not to get nerfed? It's beyond parody at this point.
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Thank you!
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Leader of The Big Four
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Beautiful
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You have clearly never played much on these Killers or you are just trolling. A big portion of your muscle memory or skill is getting weighted out by dead hard. You can be the best huntress or oni on the world you will HAVE to waste an demon dash hit or hatched to get rid of dead hard which is a giant advantage. Not to mention that its even more devesatting on the other Killers, dead hard is an free get out of jail card every chase.
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is that nightlight stats??
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The hyperbole echo chamber:
- "you can overcome anything"
- "it's blatantly broken" [...]
- "dead hard is an free get out of jail card every chase."
So, to keep it short. As long as Killers like Nurse or Blight are in the game, Deadhard has a reason for it's existence.
Eh, no. NOED has no place in this discussion. It has nothing to do with Deadhard. You can play play DBD "normally" even with NOED, just cleanse the totem.
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Nurse or Blight has no place in this discussion, it has nothing to do with dead hard, you can play DbD "normally" even with blight or nurse, just play good.
There is a good reason why survivor's movement speed will not be messed around much, and if they do usually very carefully, because it can make killers lose a game just because of that one movement speed.
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What movement speed? Dead Hard is a dash, it's not a "permanent" movement speed modifier (like Hope or NOED).
Are we getting off track?
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Dead Hard IS movement speed, it doesn't matter if it is permanent or not, it allows survivors to gain enough distance to practically gain an additional health state, which will break game.
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At the very least, and if the devs care at all about their killer main community, this perk needs to be nerfed ASAP.
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Most public matches I see DH usually on 3/4 survivors.
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Same. I've never seen such a meta on any perk, even in old ruin days.
Says it all about how broken and OP this perk is really.
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Yeah, yeah its IMPOSSIBLE. Its like this for years and ... OH ... it is POSSIBLE.
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Thanks for your complains. Just type off posts I wish faster finish damn Rift, and never return to this toxic game and community. Players who want just easy wins, always will complain. Damn, it started to be annoying and useless. Why survs should always be nerfed, and killers who have a ton off OP perks and skill in a pocket, complaining about surv (skin + 4 perks) u damn serious???
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We tried buffing survivors to SWF level, then balancing the game. It didn't work. We try it the killer favoring way now: nerfing survivor until all killers can compete and then balancing the game. It's only fair.
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and yet I see no killers saying they shouldn’t get extra speed in a chase when they aren’t skilled to catch a survivor, tell me again why a killer needs even more speed in a chase because they aren’t skilled enough o catch a survivor
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Nm
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We're dead serious. Name 1 perk killers have that's OP. Please don't say NOED.
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It's not that they aren't skilled enough. It's that they physically cannot do it. Take Trapper for example. Survivor runs to a part of the map he has no traps set up at, he plays to TL as well as he could, he plays the jungle gym as well as he could, he plays the rock loop as well as he could, yet he doesn't catch up to them. He could set up a trap at a pallet/window mid-chase to close it off, but then the survivor can just hold forward to the next safe loop. Once the survivor's actually injured, then they Dead Hard right as he's about to get them. Then they get body blocked, lost, and then heal up at CoH for the next chase. Have y'all never had experiences like this or have you only played Nurse/Blight?
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I think the main issue with Dead Hard is that it rewards both using it for arbitrary distance and dodging a swing the same amount. There's really no difference between dead harding a swing or not.
Dead Hard should probably reward dodging the swing more than it rewards using it for distance. I don't think the dash should be removed completely since having the dash does visually tell the killer what just happened, but could be shorten up a lot to give a sprint burst upon the killer swinging and missing nearby.
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is understandable with so many killers with extremely powerfull attacks, ranged attacks, TPS to certain position, extremely fast approaches seems only fair to have something that at least gives u a chance to reach something... other perks arent good enough for the most part so this happens.
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No, other perks are good. Botany/Empathic connection is 40%+ healing speed on someone else. Any Means Necessary let's reset some very strong pallets. Desperate Measures lets you heal faster for each injured person, and unhook faster by the same increase. It's just that those can't be used in chase to give yourself a third health state. That's why people run Dead Hard instead. You shouldn't rely on a perk to react to the killer's actions. You have more than enough time to react baseline.
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Extremely exausthing, dead hard makes the game boring and pathetic for the killer.
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Ahh yes, the (im)famous bloodlust argument. Bloodlust is certainly a relic of a bygone era, but killers should have such advantages. It “forces” chases to end faster, the survivor adapts to the increased speed or dies.
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I probably already said this, but I suck at Dead Hard. I use Overcome, Lithe or other exhaustion perks. Dead Hard timing is just off and it ends up being useless in the long run to escape chases.
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Depends, some perks (I.e Ruin, Tinkerer) can be OP on killers like Blight but trash on killers like Slinger who have poor map pressure.
Perks that are universally good (NOED) are most commonly complained about for a reason.
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But you can break Ruin and NOED, and clearly hear the Blight rushing with Tinkerer.
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I hate that self care is higher than COH
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The Hex’s are all prayers to the RNG gods.
Using tinkerer for the Undetectable is like using Undying for the Aura reading.
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Lol. So you're using it to stop the generator from being done? Gen defence is pointless. If it's already that far along, it's already gone anyway. Either the survivors will finish it in your face, or you'll push them off, and they'll come back and finish as soon as you go away.
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Wait - when did we buff solo survivors to SWF level? I missed that patch
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SWF can deal with any killer of any caliber. Good solos can deal with almost anything. Bad solos can't deal with much. So we've been getting god awful balance changes targeted towards bad solos, so that maybe if they're only a little incompetent, they can win any killer. Wraith's lunge nerf, Pinhead's add-on nerfs, Clown's add-on nerfs. Did good players have any problems dealing with those killers, even with their strongest stuff? Absolutely not. But did disorganized solos have problems? Oh yeah. So that's the mentality the devs have chosen for nerfing killers, so that bad solos can beat, not just SWF.
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jajajajajaja really? or it was just a joke? i will take it as a joke. a bad one but funny
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I was thinking about this all day, a way to keep dead-hard for what it's meant for and at the same time make it fairer, rewarding proper use rather than just awarding distance.
I think I might have an Idea, please let me know what you thi k. What if dead-hard worked like this:
When injured, after hitting the action button, for 0.4 seconds, if struck, any attack that would down you is ignored and you gain a small amount of distance.
Basically it would be on command i frames with a speed boost it the killer hits you. This way it keeps both properties, but you must properly predict the hit to use it as the window is tight. I thought about how it would affect certain killers, but I think in most cases it's alot more fair. It would also be more interesting against killers like Deathslinger, since instead of just dogging his well placed, well earned shot, it would be something he could counter uniquely (granted they are within a range where he doesn't have to lunge, which also balances it out imo).
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No, it wasn't a joke. Do you even play killer? At what point do you ask yourself, "Could I have done anything to win that match?" You can make basically no mistakes as killer, but the survivors have too many second chances which take up too much time, and so they all get out regardless. Doesn't ring any bells, or you just haven't hit that level yet?
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Yeah, it's called play a better killer / build. Your mistake is typically at the killer selection screen.
Can you really expect to go into games with a weaker killer and off meta builds and beat full meta survivors?
There's plenty of ridiculously strong killer builds to choose from. One's that basically take a full meta SWF on comms to beat. Nurse? Hello? You pick that character and auto-win against solo Q. If you don't have dead hard against her you basically just die in 2 seconds if she is really good.
Same thing with any other top tier killer running meta builds. Auto wins against any survivors NOT running full meta. And they are basically auto wins against solo Q teams even if they do have the meta. Worst case they are typically still 2king. All it takes is one survivor getting tunneled and not having DS and the entire team dies.
Overall the game is pretty killer sided outside of SWFs. Solo Q is typically a slaughter. What other game are people going on 50+ winstreaks at their real MMR? It's unheard of in a game like League if you are not smurfing.
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Solo survivors problem is the majority of survivors lack any game sense what so ever.
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No, I'm pretty sure you've got that backwards. Survivors can win perkless if they're coordinated enough. I've had perkless survivors escape me multiple times, because guess what? I was playing around a DS and an Unbreakable they didn't even have. That's how game changing those survivor perks are, that just the threat of them causes you to play safe, which is sometimes a misplay. We can destroy many of the survivors we go against if we had enough time, but the gens go too fast no matter what perks we bring, so they destroy us instead. The depip squad would still win today.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
But that's not how the game should be. I shouldn't have to pick from 2 different killers to compete. You're talking about playing smart in the current meta. I'm talking about trying to change it, so killers don't have to bring best build or lose. And really? Of course solos are gonna lose to killers. Most of them are stupid, and it wouldn't matter if they did have meta perks, because they don't even know what their objective is. But they aren't like that all the time. The higher MMR you go, the survivors aren't as stupid, and meta perks or not, they will beat you with gen rush alone. So when you actually get a competent team with meta perks who know how to rush gens, that's an auto loss.
Tunneling is absolutely not as effective as y'all say it is. You'd have to wait near hook both times they got unhooked, hope they don't have BT, DS, or body blockers, and hook them again. Meanwhile the gens could all get done. And 50 win streaks are absolutely dead as killer, if the MMR system is working correctly. All you need is to go against 1 good team, and they take your streak away. No amount of skill or advantage is gonna change that outcome for you.
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With blight and nurse, dead hard needs to stay as is.
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Maybe they can change the Title of The Game to "Dead by Deadhard"
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That’s what ruin is for?
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The old do you even player killer ploy. Come on try harder
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