People have seem to forgotten what toxic actually means
People say something is "toxic" when mostly it ain't toxic at all. Being toxic is when you are abusing someone (in an intentional manner to get them mad). And do not start to say that tbaging or flashlight clicking or hitting people on the hook is toxic cause it ain't at all. Toxic would be when someone messages you after the game verbally abusing you.
I had a survivor message me (I was her teamate) and I was running killer around whole game and got a flashlight save, eventully got hooked and when she took me off she was running away so I clicked my flashlight at her to tell her to heal me. She messaged me and said that that was toxic and the game dosnt need people like me. That was nothing close to toxicity.
Overall people get butthurt so much these days and it's over a video game💀💀.
We just need to understand that using any in game mechanics is not toxic.
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It's in the eye of the beholder.
Nothing more nothing less.
Some people think clicking and bagging is fine, some people think slugging and bleeding is fine.
Some people think racism is fine, some people think playing a fps with a controller is fine.
The point is what annoys you or is toxic for you may not be for me and vice versa.
Just because you get a kick out of standing at a gate behaving like a child wanting to be chased doesn't mean i get a kick out it. Do i think you're toxic for doing that? No, i just think you're a idiot and a child.
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Sigh.
Okay, looking at the first paragraph here makes me not want to believe the second paragraph. But yes - trying to 'get someone mad' is what toxicity means - you are being nasty in the game to try and make them annoyed IRL in the hopes that they'll be distracted. Is...that really something we should be promoting?
Also - Any in game mechanic...wait, so I can bodyblock someone inside that room on The Game and go AFK...and by your definition, that wouldn't be a problem?
How about we all just manner up?
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Trash talk and taunting used to be a real life thing, something to intentionally throw you off your game by tilting you. "There's no crying in baseball", etc.
Bullying a player is something I'd consider toxic, but a lot of people get upset when being taunted and don't want to play after it happens so from a business standpoint I get why that would be unappealing. I'd still like survivors/killers to get flavor emotes that go beyond "oh no he crouched at me". Imagine running to the exit gate to shoo a survivor out of the trial and he'd just standing there shooting you the bird.
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Weirdly, that 'trash talk is common in sports' thing hasn't been true for a very long time. Mostly, being unsportsmanlike - especially after a match - will get you sanctioned. There are some sports where it happens, but these are at least part show - boxing, MMA and the like - where rivalries are half of the appeal. And even then - you shake hands before and after the bout.
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That would be considered toxic yes. That is abusing the person that is getting blocked. Ok so mostly all in game mechanics are not toxic, but some are, I should of clarified on that.
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"Being toxic is when you are abusing someone (in an intentional manner to get them mad). And do not start to say that tbaging or flashlight clicking or hitting people on the hook is toxic cause it ain't at all. "
^^ wat?
If that is your definition of toxic how is bm'ing not toxic then? In your case you weren't toxic but in some of the other cases people do it intentionally to provoke the killer.
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Shrug.
To me, the mindset is the exact same - all that's different is the execution. In both cases, you are extracting enjoyment out of making another player frustrated IRL.
Can some people be oversensitive, or go out looking for things to complain about? Sure. That's the other side of the issue.
That said - if you are doing something specifically to be annoying, chances are that you know you aren't behaving appropriately and if you persist, that says a lot more about you as a person than it does the person who gets annoyed.
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Sorry bm'ing? Beaming? Like with a flashlight. Sorry I'm not clear on what that means. But if you do mean beaming... it's an in game mechanic that I frustrating towards killers, but it isn't toxic cause flashlights are in the game for a reason
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I've always found ironic how teammates tbaggin each other (most of the time) means politeness, like when u start the game and you spawn with someone and u tbag to say hi or after healing to say thanks, and then there's the same movement against a killer but it has a very different meaning and intention
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I meant bad manners.
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My argument is that you can't be toxic through a game. Like... it's just a game. How are can someone be toxic by crouching up and down? Like how do people think tbaging is toxic I don't understand. But you can be toxic through chat or vc etc. I find taunting me in game hilarious because they are trying to trigger me through a game.
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BM = bad manners. Basically acting in a way to deliberately annoy or frustrate other players. This usually refers to something done in victory (the equivalent of refusing to shake your opponents hand and instead spitting in their face) but can also refer to general nastiness in the game.
Well, yes? All meaning is contextual. That's...how language works :).
If I use a specific word starting with a 'c' when speaking to my friends, and the same word in an argument with a stranger at a bar - it's going to carry a different meaning.
Wow, I totally agree!
I mean, what is a handshake? Just waving a piece of meat up and down. And spitting in someone's face is just projecting moisture from my body to another persons. No idea why everyone was so upset when, rather than shaking hands with the opponent after I won, I spat in their faces. They should have been grateful for my donation!
Hell, yelling racial epithets at that goalie...nothing wrong with that, I was just making the air vibrate a certain way. What's wrong with making the air vibrate? Why was I thrown out of the stadium and fired from my team? No idea why everyone is so 'butthurt'...
Injustice, I say! Nothing has meaning absent context, so there is no such thing as rudeness!
(In all seriousness - yes, we assign commonly understood meaning to things, be they words or actions, based on context and a vaguely Jungian shared understanding. Let's get real here - you know that teabagging the killer, especially after the game is being unsportsmanlike).
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Oh then in that case... having bad or good manners in a game matters? No offense but that sounds ridiculous. In game actions should not correspond to real life. You can't have good or bad manners is a video game. Especially in a game where you are tying to mest hook people. (No means to sound disrespectful towards you btw. My wording isn't amazing)
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No worries. But to me trying to provoke someone is bad manners and toxic. It is just how I view it. While not every instance of clicking is meant to annoy like in your case, some are.
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In a PvP game?
Yes, absolutely.
Because there are real people behind those avatars, trying to enjoy a hobby to take their mind off all the unpleasant people they had to deal with at work that day.
Games with good communities tend to get new players to stick around, and the paradigm of 'oh it's just the internet, if you don't enjoy 12 year olds screaming slurs into your ears at 4am there must be something wrong with you' is decades out of date.
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I mean, generally, a game is to have fun and bad mannerism clearly affects that.
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I feel like the generation of today wouldn't last a second in COD MW2 lobbies. Those were toxic but is also why it made it so damn funny. That was free speech at its finest.
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As someone who's been gaming since the days when having the high score at the local arcade was a big deal in terms of nerd cred - it's the 'generations of today' that make COD lobbies so unpleasant.
I also have never understood the idea of 'I get to be really unpleasant to other people in situations where they have zero recourse' is in any way a free speech defense. This is the stuff that people who want to suppress free speech tend to reach for as justification.
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This game is meant to push survivors and killers to their limit and you complain that there is toxicity? what highly competitive multiplayer game does not produce toxicity?
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You haven't played Dota and Valorant at all?! Do people even get banned for sheet they say in chat? No one cares when its a competitive game, this isn't a fair sport this is DBD we aren't playing Hockey here.
Post edited by Rizzo on0 -
Basically all of them - which is where moderation comes into play.
LoL is my best example - the addition of the Tribunal saw what was, at the time, probably the most unpleasant gaming community in mainstream gaming become actually pretty tolerable - and one of the reasons why LoL will likely always be *the* MOBA.
DOTA absolutely bans players. As does Valorant.
Unless you mean the original DOTA...which would never survive now.
Also:
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DOTA is the real MOBA, don't push your anime waifu bs on me, we got tougher than nails competition than your overhyped cartoon smash bros. except the only thing you smash is the recall button.
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I play Heroes of the Storm, when I feel a hankering for a MOBA (although in fairness that's because I like to duo with the missus and it's the MOBA she enjoys most).
That said - if by 'real MOBA', you mean a janky mod for a 20 year old game that nobody but a few weird, crusty vetarans plays anymore then...sure?
If you're talking about DOTA 2, Valve absolutely bans people for being nasty, so I'm not sure what your point is.
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Cause clearly you haven't played DOTA 2
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I've played it a bit. Never really grabbed me. And I played the original DOTA to death. It just felt...flat.
You can basically Google 'DOTA 2 banned toxicity' and find hundreds and hundreds of threads.
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Uh. Also, it's just words. Have you ever heard of sticks and stones? If you got someone that mad, have a laugh. Getting so offended by what someone says does nothing. No trophy, no recourse. It's only you that are affected besides the person you pissed off.
So in older terms. Get over it? Being so sensitive to words from a person you don't even know should have no effect on your life. It's kind of part of being an adult. You grow up.
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Okay, do you think that it should be acceptable to yell racial slurs at the other team in sports?
How about just refusing to shake their hands after the game?
If not, then all you're doing is quibbling over price.
It's all good and well to say 'sticks and stones'...but people don't work like that. And as you get older, you come to realize that more. If anything, recognizing that language is the primary method by which we understand the world and thus has the power to both cause pain and impart happiness...that's something you learn as you get older.
I also know that I deal with enough frustrating parents and students every day to not want to deal with them in my hobbies too - and I see no benefit in being an apologist for people acting like butts in basically any context.
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I'm only teabagging and clicking my flashlight in the exit gates so I can give the killer a hit and some extra bloodpoints!!! ::dead hards out the gate::
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I'm not saying it's acceptable. I'm saying get over it. Who cares what some random online person has said? It's different in the context you use if it was a close friend or a loved one. Then, yes words can hurt allot. But you don't even know these people, so who gives a rip what they say?
I mean in my younger years I learned not to care what others said. Isn't that something you learn when you are older? Not to care what people say or think? If you let people get to you that much then either stop playing or grow a spine so to say.
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Yeah man just learn not to care about people intentionally trying to make you feel bad all the time. Let's all be stoic unemotional pin cushions. That certainly won't lead to any issues later on
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If people need to just learn how to take it and shrug it off then give me back my Leatherface masks already
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Not really. It sounds like, if anything, you've probably gotten numb to it (which isn't uncommon, sadly). And that's not a good thing.
I'd probably respond by saying that if the only way you can get enjoyment is by trying to make sure others don't...you're the one at fault and probably need to do some introspection, as this behavior tends to grow out of a deep insecurity on your behalf.
Now, I'm not saying that this describes you, directly. But you are certainly being an apologist for this sort of behavior, which does get my noggin' joggin'.
'Caring what others say'...it's not that intellectualized. It's more just how human brains work (we can get into the actual psychobiological/neurochemical effects of bullying, if you'd like - and how depression works). It's not something people can really just turn off - and if you try to force it (as certain militaries do), you often end up with pretty serious mental health issues later on. Because all you're actually doing is repression.
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This person gets it
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Eh. I have a background is psychology and education, and my wife is a neuroscientist - so I can wax poetic on how our brains work and how physically damaging sustained abuse and bullying can be.
I also do tend to get annoyed at people who will basically tell people with these issues to 'toughen up' and 'sticks and stones' and all that, because what they are actually doing is shifting the blame to the person being wronged, and away from the person doing wrong.
What is also interesting is that I've spent a lot of time with your sort of classically liberal free speech types, and they tend to be some of the nicest people around. Because they understand the importance of free speech, and part of this comes from understanding just how important and impactful our speech can be.
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Numb to it? No. It's a part of being in the real world. It isn't sunshine and rainbows. People will be S#####. That's just human nature. Whether it has to do with previous trauma, deep seeded issues. Idk. I'm no psychologist.
I dont trash talk anyone, I don't see the point. I just don't let it get to me. Regardless of how people choose to play. Guess what? If I really got that worked up over it can you guess what I can do? Press the power button, and bam. Problems gone. If they were to show up at your house and berate you? That's an entirely different issue. You can't go through life wanting people to cater to YOUR needs. That's not how it works. In a perfect world? Eh, maybe. But the world doesn't and will never world like that. You get over it. You can either laugh or cry about it. I choose to laugh.
Sure, people can have depression. But compartmentalizing and repressing are two very different things. "Turn off" is a broad term. Compartmentalizing Isn't repressing. It's putting your emotions aside at the moment to think about it later. Which is exactly what people should do if they are that worked up over what a keyboard warrior says.
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Compartmentalizing is an intellectual exercise. Very few people can do it, and even fewer can do it well (which is why police officers tend towards substance abuse and mental health issues). Repression is instinctive, and generally what most people who claim to be compartmentalizing are doing.
It's less about getting 'worked up' and more humans being a social species that relies on social cues to interact, and a very instinctive reaction when these cues are misused.
But okay, let me see if I can explain.
In competitive sports, it's expected for both teams to shake hands before and after the match, no matter how heated the rivalry. This is common across multiple cultures and basically all sports.
Why do you think that is?
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Very few can do it? I beg to differ. It's a weak psyche if you cannot. True, it's something that is taught not typically born with being able to do.
Yes humans are social, but if everyone got so offended by what another person has said we would be dead. Either through mass suicides, worse wars then we have ever seen, etc.
Yes I understand the value in shaking hands or saying good game after a sporting match. Though it does not change someone on either team will resent you for how you played. You just. Don't. Let. It. Get. To. You. Simply put we can argue semantics all night. The point is, if you let what another person on a video games says about you. You need to evaluate your own psyche and emotions. Instead if getting mad or depressed over a video game, have a laugh. It's more fun that way.
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Hahaha lol look at this survivor teabagging me saying f you cause the whole map is safe pallets. So funny yay this is a great experience! We're just having fun guys!!
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That's not what I've learned, or what the data indicates. Unless you want to go the 'the vast majority of humans have a weak psyche' route, in which case...yeah. Lots to unpack there.
I'm...not sure what you mean by 'semantics'. We aren't arguing over the meaning of words - actually, if I'm not mistaken, the sentence I just typed was the first example of me arguing semantics in this thread.
This is about ethics. Ethics and pragmatism. Because, speaking pragmatically, I really like this game and want it to continue to grow. And that means encouraging sportsmanship and fostering a good ingame community.
Once again, I'm not sure if you're really grasping this. People can't just choose to 'have a laugh', because that's...just not how our brains work. I can get as technical as you like on this one, but in essence, you're talking about areas of the brain which control sophisticated processes, and that's not where the processes I'm talking about happen. Serotonin, dopamine and adrenaline. It would be so much easier if we could control these three substances.
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All this people defending bad manners because "get over it" "just ignore it" you know you are the reason so many gamers prefer solo games. There are many people in the world that fight with toxic asshats on a daily basis and would just like to relax in there favorite game but you work on making it a miserable place.
Speaking for myself I can't play more then 3 games when I get very toxic survivor that bm like it gives BP. And there is no get over it for me because I am literally disabled and I have a hard time controlling my emotions especially frustration and anger. So I play mostly single player games because people insist that it's part of gaming to act like an idiot and be mean to people
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"Being toxic is when you are abusing someone (in an intentional manner to get them mad)."
U mean, like T-bagging and Flashlights clicks??
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