Legion Doesn't Need a Buff--they need a whole Rework
Ive been sitting on the edge of my seat for about a month the second I caught wind of a Legion update. I really, REALLY thought maybe they'd finally give a real look at the killer, their lore, and make their power and perks MAKE SENSE?
I was hoping for a new ability all together, to fit in with the trailer teaser of "darkness among us", where maybe you can cloak yourself as a survivor from a distance, but as you get closer you're revealed to be the killer--this wouldn't be a big leap, because Onryo gets to be invisible within a certain distance, and once she gets too close she's revealed. Imagine you see Dwight coming towards you to help with a gen--OH MY GOD ITS LEGION.
I even saw a cool idea, what if Legion could occupy lockers? Like changing between the 4 teens by going in and out of lockers, and being able to swap between lockers based on where the other teens are--and the unused teens would REMAIN in the lockers. Oh I'm just gonna hide in this locker--OH MY GOD ITS LEGION.
All of these play in a LOT better to Legion's lore, and their whole shtick of being 4-in-1 killer. Unless ALL four of them were TRACK STARS--I dont see how "running fast" was the brilliant power that they gave them.
THAT BEING SAID....
I am a WEE bit excited for the buff, but I dont think it will raise them above a B. Legion just isn't a big threat. A big enough map is enough to handicap them. They can only get a down after successfully chaining 4 hits. Even with a .2 speed boost between hits the odds of getting to all 4 survivors is so slim, unless they all just have a drum circle near a gen.
Even if you manage to find ONE survivor, all they need is Sprint Burst to almost completely waste your power. Spring burst gives them 150%ms. Thats 20% higher than Legions, and assuming they're already at least 15-20m ahead of you when you activate Feral Frenzy, once they turn on their Sprint Burst you are NOT catching them. Even if you are RIGHT behind them when you activate FF, they move at 150%, FF only moves at 130%. Sprint Burst lasts for a full 3 seconds, and I've timed--FF and it only lasts 10. So with the Feet Per Second a survivor can get between them and you, those extra 7 seconds aren't gonna help much as 3 of them are still gonna be you playing catch up, now you only have 3 seconds to hit this survivor, and pray theres another one close enough to chain a 2nd hit.
The fatigue is FINALLY getting a buff, going from a WHOPPING 4 SECONDS, which is basically a free Decisive Strike in game, multiple times, down to 3 seconds--the length of Nurse's who gets to GO THROUGH WALLS.
With as good as survivors are at looping in this game, a killer being able to run 15% faster just isn't it.
I was really hoping for a legit just rework of this killer. I think they're really wasting what could be a really unique killer power and just did the most BORING power of "run fast". And they aren't even the best as running fast! Hillbilly can run LAPS at 230%, infinitely, until he runs into something. So can Blight! Legion isn't even the fastest runner in the game and their whole power is being able to run fast.
Comments
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Yeah its still weak but it's better than nothing, would you rather wait 10 more years just to see Legion rework happen, They're running on with BHVR schedule where one task takes years to be done.
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I know Legion is never gonna change at this point. if they were ever gonna ACTUALLY rework them, this would have been it. They're doubling down on this "durr go fast" thing they have.
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Mend is probably one of the dumbest mechanics in the game, TO ME. So long as youre running, not even in chase, Mend will remain frozen. So you can literally run across the entire map with no punishment. You can run all game with Deep Wounds on, and nothing will happen so long as you keep sprinting. It doesn't force the survivors to heal like it should. I think deep wounds should start unless youre actively in chase. because honestly running should make a person bleed out even faster, not slower. thats how blood works
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if i'm not mistaken you also won't be able to interrupt your feral frenzy once you activate it (so techincally this is a slightly nerf)
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I didnt see any notes about feral frenzy now being un-exitable. it was just the speed buff, the 5th hit down that were the key points. if by some fault they did make it so i couldnt manually interrupt it, its pretty easy to force a pallet stun---which would result in a 3s stun, the same duration as me ending my frenzy
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I much prefer these changes to a gimmick to be honest. I know that's not a very common opinion, but hey, I play Legion because I like their current power.
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You actually thought that much effort would go into a killer?
They are probably saving legions real power for a new killer.
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Seems you misunderstood something there..
The trailer was not adapted well from Legion. The lore, ability and characters fit all perfectly together.. except the trailer.
The name Legion comes from the GRP of the 4 friends that always stick together no matter what. They are Teenagers who have a strong desire of freedom and want to do what they want without consequenses. Thats basicly what Legion IS atm and I dont see why a full rework is necessary here.
I love the FF, Legion is arguably pretty fun to play but just weak thats why Legion got buffs not a rework.
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I'd go with your initial feelings. This won't do crap for Legion in the long run. This is the type of "update" that is normal from DBD devs. They never really go above and beyond tbh, unless they are working on some map like RPD that nobody but the RE fans ended up enjoying anyway. Honestly I wish the Killers in this game felt more like the Champions in LoL. Way more love, passion, blood, sweat, and tears go into those characters. The Survivors in this game are all the same. No uniqueness at all. And the Killers are pretty close to that as well with minor differences between powers.... Very minor.... Plague makes you cough.... Nemesis makes you cough.... etc...etc...
I have trained myself to expect "bare minimum" from the DBD devs, because expecting even just a slight bit more is too much.
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Legion and Ghost Face got nothing. They needed reworks, and they got small buffs.
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You expected them to put in effort? At that point you already beat yourself mentally.
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One of the worst killer designs in the game, pretty sad because they a lot of potential: disguise as survivors, hide in lockers, the 3 other legion members going around the map as bots, etc...
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They'll never do a full fledged Freddy level rework again. Not only is it very resource expensive, requiring countless hours of thinking of a power concept, coding, testing, and approving it, but there's also the issue that Legion IS a popular killer.
Legion has a surprisingly above average pick rate, which means that despite their shortcomings, they have a fanbase. There is a niche Legion fills that others cannot substitute. Reworking them would create another group of players begging for old Legion back, similar to Freddy.
And let's be honest, most of the ideas thrown around are unrealistic.
"Let's teleport through lockers!" Doesn't help in chase, Legion's weakness.
"Have all Legion members as bots!" I've played Nemesis. I'm not interested in my allies getting stuck on a tree.
"Allow us to switch members mid-game!" That'd require reworking the entire customization system simply for Legion. Never gonna happen.
That's how it used to be. People exploited the chase mechanics of the game by moonwalking, preventing a chase from starting and guaranteeing a down with 0 skill required.
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Well before the patch a survivor could just genuinely ignore the legions power, now you have to be careful.
Also i think they wanted to go a direction similar to what youre suggesting, but sadly from a profit perspective, its better to just design a killer from the ground up and sell him instead of fixing a killer by essentially removing him from the game.
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No thanks, I like playing Legion.
Full reworks should never happen again. Adding to their current power is good but what they did to Freddy was imo the single worst thing that happened in this game.
Cloaking as survivors or locker teleporting are good powers to give to future killers. No need to delete something people are enjoying for it
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I like playing Legion for fun, but their power is essentially useless is almost all cases against good survivors. The second you realize you are facing a Legion, you split up, at which point Feral Frenzy becomes a non-factor. It's fundamental flaw.
The new buffs are significant in their own way, and welcome, but do nothing to lessen the effect of the "split up" counterplay. There will be occasions where you can lure/trick multiple survs into proximity, but not nearly often enough for the new buffs (mostly the down on the fifth hit) to consistently useful.
It'll absolutely wreck noobs who herd together in terror, though.
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Man, people really got tripped up by the very basic symbolism and metaphor in Legion's trailer. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't very good, but it was also pretty easy to follow?
Regardless, I disagree with your assessment. Legion's core power functions absolutely fine, it's just too weak; too punishing with its fatigue, too easy to counter by splitting up, too lacking in lethality. The buffs they're getting are going to cover all of Legion's actual weaknesses, and then they'll be a perfectly serviceable killer.
They already have quite a lot of fans. Legion are very popular, so clearly the core concept of their power and the way it ties into their actual concept and vibe as characters aren't fundamentally broken.
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I fundamentally agree.
There is tons of creative potential for this killer that can make a truly interesting gameplay dynamic.
However, they are in a very, very awkward place.
On one hand, to survivors, their power can seem exceedingly unfair - it removes health states extremely quick and forces survivors to take more time to deal with their mending timers than what it's worth...
(if survivors can reliably loop a killer for 15 seconds before getting hit, sprinting over to a survivor for a free Rush hit is a free 30 seconds for the Legion on each survivor hit. It can take 10 seconds or less to hit 3 grouped survivors, gaining 90 seconds of value, if not more relatively)
... There isn't a lot of counterplay from this perspective - you just have to take the health states and mend up, God forbid you actually heal and waste precious time. Its frustrating to newer players and annoying to seasoned ones.
On the other hand, the Legion is extremely weak. Very low kill potential, low mobility outside of chase, low map pressure, and can be countered by either a strong healing team, objective rush, or great chasers - all of which can be found in spades at higher skill levels.
With the new precedent of granting 5% speed on consecutive Lethal Rush survivor hits - it will become easier to use the killer's power more effectively and spread survivors out. (Spread them out*)
With the ability to down a survivor after hitting all 4, the Legion gains a lethality buff that's much needed to make them competitive as a killer - albeit in very particular circumstances - but this can also feel veritably unfair to a survivor that's minding their own business, gets chased down by a 145% movement speed Legion only to instantly get hit again by a 150% Legion and get pushed to the ground instantly without any REAL ability to avoid it at that stage of the encounter.
This can feel very unfun and cheap to survivors - and can especially be frustrating to those who know better, but cannot escape the speed range of the killer once they begin to chain together hits.
On the other hand, without this 'cheapshot' reward for chaining together 4 hits - the Legion sits in C tier for the rest of their lives.
Really, what it comes down to is the misconception from the developer team about how their game is played.
(Spread them out*)
Legion's power thrives on grouped survivors, which is why Discordance and Mad Grit is also part of their base kit - it keeps survivors separate and unwilling to stick their necks out for each other.
The problem is, this is NOT what you want as a killer.
Having the survivors spread out across multiple generators, tackling areas of the map that you are too busy to patrol - this is the opposite of what you want as a killer. You want survivors to group up on one or two generators that you can patrol and harass, you want to chain together hits while chasing multiple survivors in a corner, you WANT to have 4 survivors trading health states so that they can all 4 rush down a single generator. But you NEVER WANT to see all 4 survivors spread to the corners of the map and start sitting on generators - because once you chase one of them, the other 3 will get popped soon enough.
The fundamental problem with the Legion is that, while lacking in creativity, the method behind the killer is completely impractical.
Each Killer has a sort of mission statement that they capitalize on.
Plague: "Stay injured, or give me momentum."
Oni: "Heal up or I will become stronger."
Trapper: "Mind your step."
Cannibal: "DC."
Artist: "Don't try and loop me."
Doctor: "Play safe or die."
Legion: "Separate from your team or I will gain value"
That's a bad core to build on.
The Legion's current design philosophy is the greatest weakness that the killer has. It incentivizes survivors to separate and tackle objectives simultaneously.
Either they will buff the killer until Survivors leave the game out of frustration, or they will let the killer stay in the dust. But the Legion will always feel unfun and uninspired so long as this core philosophy continues to be followed by the development team without new direction being injected into the killer.
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i think its pretty funny how People complain about these Buffs, when the People who are known to be good at legion actually really like it. Take Tatariu for example. Hes a Legion God. Not just by looking at his Gameplay. His Stats on Steam aswell. He thinks those are the Buffs that legion needed. And i agree.
Dont get me Wrong. I've had many ideas how you could rework the Legion. Some of those ideas actually ended up on the Forums. But what they did rn with Legion is actually much better then i expected and im super excited to play as them once the PTB drops.
I just hope the duration Addons stay the same and we get some Speed Addons aswell. That would make getting the 5th Hit so much easier,
(also your Math isnt correct. Legion is going to get a Speedbuff after every Hit. So they are not gonna stay at 130% but instead go up to 135%, 140%, 145% etc.)
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I’m looking forward to the changes. They are smallish in design. I agree. They also look really clever cause buffing Ghostface was a real conundrum and they found a way. Looking forward to it.
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instead i think that's funny that people didn't whine about the buffs... this won't change NOTHING, they improved legion in the wrong parts of his kit... no antiloop power, no lethality (good luck to stack 5 hits of FF aganist competent survivors who knows how to effectively counter the legion's power) and no map pressure... they made him more powerful only aganist newcomers (aka noobstomper), experienced survivors will laugh at him, as always
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Seeing how freddy got his rework, makes me wonder , nah am okay with current legion.
I would like a rework for mending instead , because mending is not interesting.
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So, if Legion gets a down in the fifth hit, what happens when there's less than 4 survivors? Does FF only have full power against 4 players?
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You clearly have no idea. Again, look at yesterdays Stream from Tatariu. He stomped all kinds of Survivors. From Noobs to high Level Players.
Play some more Legion before you try to say whats needed for them.
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Have you tried running Dead Man's Switch, Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance, Sloppy Butcher, and Thanatophobia?
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It's better than nothing, but it is pretty minor. At least the addons are actually decent now.
To be honest I'd just like to them to increase the potential for mind games since in the end he's still just an m1 killer. Like adding Defeaned to the Deep Wounds effect would add a extra layer of depth to the game play. Now you'd be scared to Mend if you weren't positive of his location. They may assume you're running off to spread the Deep Wounds around when in reality the killer doubles back out of line of sight and sneaks up on you from the Deafened status.
Simple change that would add so much extra depth to Legion and make Deep wounds actually matter.
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Its just bad concept for a killer period. Legion isnt particularly strong. The mend action just tends to result in a tedious drawn out boring m1 game.
Playing against legion is just flat out boring.
The main counterplay is to split up which benefits the survivors more and makes it harder for the killer.
It becomes a game of constant mending with legion just respecting pallets to then once again m1 in frenzy with no real value other than to once again start mending simulator and continue the loop as a normal m1.
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Yeah it's weird to me how people get hung up on a trailer from years ago. It's over. It's dead. What op is proposing is just a new killer named legion. Where's that leave everybody that likes their current gameplay and simply wants to see it refined and improved? Foolish to not consider that.
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At this point, a full blown rework (as in an entirely new power) is very unlikely for The Legion. I'll never say never, of course, but the chances are slim.
Legion's in an interesting spot where in spite of not being the strongest, they're very popular. All these years later and they're still consistently played more than a lot of other Killers. If so many people are playing them even though they're leaning towards the weaker side, that's a good indicator that a lot of people like the way they work as is (even if they'd appreciate some buffs).
We're at a point now where we have 27 Killers in the game. If one of those 27 Killers isn't for you, that's totally okay, there's still 26 others to choose from. But we're not exactly looking to radically change a Killer that a lot of people like just to make it appealing to folks who aren't a fan. To use the example you gave, changing their ability to allow them to disguise may make them more fun to you, but it would destroy a lot of people's favourite Killer.
A full on rework is something we'd save for extreme circumstances, where the power is either very unpopular or creates a major gameplay issue (old Legion, for instance).
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Mind if I refer you to this? https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/318063/regarding-the-hits-needed-with-frenzy
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This thread is pretending that Legion has tiny buffs. A downing 5th hit and gradual speed increases aren't small. Those can add into the overall pressure Legion can impose on a team. Don't forget the add-on changes also. Otzdarva made a video laying out some interesting combinations you can make with them now.
Overall, I'm excited with this direction of Legion. They needed it.
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How about this: Deep Wound would indeed tick down while moving and being chased UNLESS the survivor is withing a certain radius of another survivor, essentially letting them seek out other survivors, maybe even ferretting them out, just so that they don't go down while being chased. This would counter Legions weakness of "spread out! Weeeeeeee" and I like the subtle "traitor" flavor of leading Legion to your friends, just so that they will leave you alone so that you can mend yourself in the dark and cold.
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i've more than 2400 hours, prestiged ALL killers to p3 and have all the perks on them... i think that i'm knowing what i'm talking about... just because you like a streamer doesn't mean that his matches are the absolute truth about the game... it's like saying that the game is killer side because you saw otzarva winning as a perkless killer aganist a swf team... without taking into account the map, the offerings, the survivor's perks, the items, the used killer and mostly the skill of the survivors faced... at high level plays legion simply sucks, everyone with a modicum of brain will tell you this... you get the 1st hit easily with FF... and then what? you are a simple m1 killer for the rest of the trial without a real threatening power that could aid you in chases... as i said before it's pure logic what i used here. you are free to don't believe me but i'm right about this (try to use legion in a map like the game for example: you'll change your idea).
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despite he was weak, i still miss the old freddy... he was more fun than the actual one cause he was unique😔
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This actually sounds nice. I mean survivor would go through the roof because of it but I like the theme and I think it has some vibes of the legion trailer. I get why it's not working to act as an survivor but this idea goes in a similar direction
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I enjoy running at the speed of light and just vaulting palettes it's enjoyable
Like I suck at playing killer but Legions the only one I feel good playing at all. IF YOUR scared to play killer pick them its really fun. Plus the music slaps.
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Could this be interpreted as a rework for the Twins? Haha, when it comes to unpopular power, I can only think of them.
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I personally like the way Legion plays, though I don't see these changes as a big deal. They are the QoL changes that have been asked about for a while. While that's a good thing, it's simply going to make Legions normal game plan a bit stronger, but doesn't really address Legions plethora of weaknesses.
The insta down doesn't matter that much, and only shortens the time Legion spends focusing the last person they hit with FF. It also, from what I understand, doesn't work when there is less than 4 survivors, so it's another scenario where Legions power only really works at the beginning of the trial. On top of this, it is going to be a set way Legion gets a down, and survivors are going to hate how predictable and inevitable it is.
As silly as it sounds, the best way to avoid the insta down is to run to Legion when they pop FF so you aren't the last person they hit.
The addon reworks are honestly good.
Going back to the actual topic, I don't want a Legion rework. I just want their power to be iterated on the be more interactive and flexible, with some bite. It also needs to be constitution viable throughout the entire trial. The changes don't really address that.
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The Question is: Who Cares about high Level Games ?
Most of the Playerbase isnt high Level. And we dont need every Killer to be high Level.
Against normal Survivors you will get an Insta down every few Games. And apart from that the Legion still got some other buffs.
We dont need another Nurse or Spirit. We already got strong Killer for high Level.
Legion is fun. And with the Update they're gonna be even more fun. And thats what matters in the end. Afterall, we bought this Game to have fun, not because our Lifes depend on winning.
Try taking a solid break from DbD. You seem to care to much about being able to Win rather then having fun. And in a Game that can be so unfair and Random thats not a healthy Mindset.
(Also 2400 Hours in this Game aint even that much. I got roughly the same and i would still say i can only play a few Killers on a good Level. So if you dont Focused on being good as Legion, why should you be ?)
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Yeah. Changing them now would ruin my favourite Killer for sure. Instead. You Guys can keep that idea and try using it for a new Killer. So everybody is happy. :3
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no? i barely know anyone whos happy with legions original design. it literally makes no sense and they completely underutilized the entire point of a killer being 4 different people. every time i ever see a legion rework/buff discussion it always has their power being completely changed to actually make sense of their story. imagine if The Plague just hit us with a baseball bat instead of vomitting on us
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Thats actually an insanely good point, once ONE survivor is dead Legion legit just reverts back to their old selves again :/ damn this buff is even lamer than i thought. killers like Hillbilly get to endlessly sprint across the map for as long as they want, and can get an insta down as many times as they want--then theres Legion lol.
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speed of light? Sprint Burst is literally faster lol but, I mean... OK?
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you said it yourself, theyre a group of kids that stick together and do what they want--how does that translate too "they run fast". like.. literally dont see how that became their power. the plagues story has to do with sickness and the curse of an infection spreading to EVERYONE. whats her power? infecting EVERYTHING.
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How does "running fast" tie into their lore--at all?
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Yes I thought so but hey they proved me wrong
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yo...i love this. even as a survivor id legit be OK with this. like... yo. tiny stuff man. i dont want Legion to be an S tier god but just make em make sense and this makes sense! i love this
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They're a gang of college kid delinquents chasing you down with a knife. The point of them is that they're not a big, hulking slasher villain or a bestial monster, they're just people. They're not Friday the 13th, they're The Purge.
It's why they can vault pallets and vault windows faster than other killers, too. They're closer to the survivors they're hunting or the small-town regular people of Ormond than to most other killer concepts, which was the actual point of their trailer; Darkness is Among Us, not only in the obviously monstrous. It could be anyone.
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Thank-you for protecting my fast stabby family
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You do know that "do what they want" doesnt mean they can do what they want outside of their power. They are literally kids with knife's, what do you would suggest instead then? xD I dont see a issue with that tbh.
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