Using communication tools isn't cheating?
Hi @Rizzo90
>I'm closing this here.
Why have you closed this thread about SWFs being shown?
Especially as the community is interested and is being talked about, people are after a fix to the game and SWFs should be shown in lobbies.
>We stated multiple times that using communication tools is neither cheating nor it is against the rules, we even have sections in the Official Discord for people to play with their friends.
The thread was not about this, however I am not sure who this we is but 3rd party communication software used by survivors is cheating by one of it's definitions in the dictionary.
Now I'm not sure who this 'we' is but a definition of cheating is to have an unfair advantage over others. If the 'we' represents the game developers/company then they can't say it isn't cheating unless they can remove or redefine this definition of cheating.
"Against the rules", this is acceptable as the makers of the game set the rules. Although it is questionable whether this is right to do so as the game should either be balanced on survivors with this advantage or without.
> Please in the future refer to the game rules, as it's explained we do not punish for using communication apps
I'm not sure people are saying people who cheat with 3rd party communication software should be punished, that seems a little aggressive. It should be up to the game designers to balance the game to make it fairer, add communications in game?
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It's not cheating. Improve at killer
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It's not cheating at all.
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The Community is not interested in even more complaint-Threads about SWF. SWF will always be a part of the game and so will be communication Tools. They are not cheating at all.
Just stop it.
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It’s not cheating
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Correct it isn't, next please 💫
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Sorry I want to talk to my friend and goof around with him, making duo queue more fun than solo
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You'd think this kind of thread would stop getting made after a certain point, right?
Here's my take: Labelling SWF as cheating is pointless. You cannot stop people from doing it, you cannot diminish its effectiveness, and even attempting to do so would be tank the game's reputation irreparably. Either it's not cheating, or it's cheating you have to ignore, and there's no functional difference between those two things.
As for your main complaint, showing SWF wouldn't achieve anything. It's a placebo, and it'll just give misguided killer players more incentive to dodge lobbies they might've had a perfectly fun time playing against because they assume that "SWF = sweaty tactical comms" when that's hardly the case most of the time.
The thread got closed because it devolved into talking about cheating, btw. The responses matter as much as the topic.
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Lets say they deem "communication tools and software" as cheats. Then what? SWFs will just use discord on their phones while playing.
This isnt even an issue. Pick your battles (and pick actual battles)...
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Mimimi SWF ... Mimimi SWF ... its getting old.
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The game is already too survivor sided DH , COH , tool boxes , gen rushing , sabotage , body blocking , flash lights , subtle cheaters and when you play with 4 other players using voice chat killers have no chance at winning because your location is communicated constantly between everyone so they know when to work on gens and when not. They can time body blocks and sabotages efficiently and flashlight saves which makes hooking someone way more difficult especially when someone is on death hook and the 4th survivor is always working on gens and they swap and every gen progress is known to everyone because of voice communication someone can always finish the gen when the killer chases the survivor that was repairing it .
Usually 4 stack swf runs the same perks that will give them a big advantage as a group so if you either slug or do anything else they have solutions plus the 5th perk slot for everyone ( COH ) but solo q everyone runs their own build that doesn't make the whole match impossible for killers like swf does.
This whole thing hurts solo q survivors too so I think nerfing swf is necessary either slow gen speed or limit swf to 2 players max it's easier to deal with 2-2 stacks than a 4 stack.
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No, according to OP you must sit in silence and have no friends to play with. How dare you. For shame.
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I find it very odd that people are unable to read a post and automatically just react to a heading.
You're new to these forums, but you'll get used to it. This is what happens a large percentage of the time. The only thing you can do is try to come up with better thread titles, because clickbait titles that hint at the same thing that has been argued a million times before will get the same responses as have been posted a million times before. For certain topics like "BBQ is OP," "SWF is cheating," "DS should be removed from the game," people won't bother to read the post because they're fed up with seeing it. Your thread title needs to better reflect your message if you're going to talk about tired topics.
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I read your post and your definition of "cheating" is bogus. "Cheating" is doing something against the rules, it's not simply something that gives an advantage. If a game has an inherent balance issue with, say, people being on comms, but comms are an intended part of the game, then using them isn't "cheating" by any reasonable definition of the word.
And that's why your post was closed. Because when you call using comms "cheating" you're implying people who use comms are "cheaters" when it's very clear that they're not.
And as a side note, the devs have already said a few times they're looking into ways to level the playing field between survivors on comms and solo survivors by, for example, adding additional informational icons to the HUD. So it's not like they're unaware of the balance issue they'd like to address.
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People aren't accepting the logic because it's wrong. There are two main ways to define cheating in this context; breaking the rules, or just having an unfair advantage. Neither apply to voice comms; the former because it's been explicitly stated to be not against the rules, and the latter because players using voice comms is a default expectation, not an unfair advantage.
I also did address the rest of your post, to be fair.
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You keep using the word "unfair" but it's not "unfair". It's part of the game.
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If you make a game where players are on a team together, and give those players the ability to form premade groups with their friends, they're going to use third party voice comms. It's a fact of the industry and it's not something you can change. Therefore, using voice comms for any team game is a default expectation, so much of one that many games that support it have simply added in-built voice comms.
That tactic obviously wouldn't work for DBD, but the devs are looking into other, more suitable tactics.
The main difference between "stretched res" and voice comms is that 1: "stretched res" isn't as broadly applicable to all team games and 2: the devs did consider it to be an unfair advantage.
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Are you serious? Killers obviously dont use Coms. Solos obviously dont use Coms. So whats left? Right. SWF.
Post edited by Gcarrara on4 -
it's an unfair advantage to solo so yeah you could call it cheating. The game seriously needs proximity chat for everyone. Would be so much fun and help with solo q.
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I agree with many of the other commenters that SWF and comms are not cheating and it’s pointless to continue making posts trying to argue that it is. If the devs say it’s not cheating, that should be the end of the argument. It’s part of the game design.
HOWEVER….let’s also use this same standard for camping and tunneling, which are frequently complained about on this forum. The devs have stated repeatedly that these are part of the game and are not bannable/unsportmanlike/toxic/etc. Just like survivors have the right to play with their friends on comms, killers have the right to play the game however they want to.
If you tell killer players to stop complaining about SWF/comms and at the same time beg the devs to nerf/remove camping and tunneling from the game, you are a hypocrite.
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Of course it's not cheating, the developers explicitly allow it...
It's just de-facto cheating really.
That being an indisputably imbalanced and unincorporated outside advantage that fundamentally warps basic gameplay assumptions and design/balance restrictions (ie, player information largely being a function of your limited perk selection and strategic decisions normally), constituting an inherent performance enhancer per any given team relative to their own performance in that exact same game minus the communication/coordination booster.
The advantages are easily comparable to other forms of cheating like stretched res or aimbots. Maybe even more impactful. Really, the only material difference--though the most essential one---is developers are just totes cool if you wanna use VC cuz well whatevs. This means voice-coms aren't what I'll differentiate as cheating de jure... that being cheating actually prohibited by the rules and punished, or y'know Cheating with a capital C basically.
It's equivalent to, say, an NFL that doesn't care about steroids and says have at it, though you've still gotta buy them from the black market (ie, go outside the game's provided elements to coordinate over 3rd party communication, and not inherently available to all teams).
The thing posters/devs/mods are afraid of acknowledging here: that criticism is about the advantages/issues, not about the "legal" status. Meanwhile, this game can either be balanced when survivors have total/instant communication or balanced when they rely exclusively on perks, but it cannot ever be both. It's literally impossible. That's the "cheating" impact people turn a blind eye to. And it's been the biggest cross this game has to bare, responsible for a vast number of flaws and limitations by trying to make two incompatible worlds co-exist.
Easy rule of thumb? "Could I, as a solo survivor, at least type the same message/idea to my team during this match?" Well damn near ANY situation where you'd answer "no" is also a situation where voice-communications is still going to constitute de facto cheating in this game for the degree of advantage over build-in gameplay restrictions. As long as they refuse to incorporate ways to overcome the benefits of VA for solo, and TRULY bring "solo up to SWF levels", then VC will always be relative "cheating".
So, when someone casually refers to voice-coms as "cheating", that's typically not an accusation of breaking the rules, it's a condemnation of this performance booster significant enough that it SHOULD be considered cheating DESPITE the current de jure status as allowed. The shorthand is a social judgement, not someone arguing you can/should be banned or saying it's literally against the rules.
But I suspect most people actually know all this already anyhow. Ever acknowledging it is a different matter.
It's damn hard to present even the flimsiest of arguments that VC isn't inherently DE FACTO cheating when such significant and obvious advantages are excluded from default gameplay possibilities. People just play dumb and declare victory by laughing it up "seen discord!?", proving the stupidly obvious de jure status that no one actually disputes or really means when applying "cheating" as a description of VC and its role on the game balance. See also: "already discussed, closing thread."
Thus, this thread.
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It isn't cheating.
It's white listed cheating In the context of the horrific game balance. If they fixed the game then it wouldn't be cheating at all but that requires a solid 8 hours of work and paying someone so it won't happen.
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This conversation is an old fight. It’s worn out and weak. As anyone can see by the responses here from the veterans.
There are things to improve in this game. This isn’t one.
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I'm going to close this one, since it's just a discussion based on wrong premises.
Communications tools are not against the rules and are not considered cheating.
If you suggest on having SWF people visible in-game, then that's a separate and different matter that by all mean you can suggest in the Suggestions and Feedback section of the forum.
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