The obvious solution to SWF

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  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 8,667
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    We can punish people who want to play with their friends. Just make it a gen speed nerf. Just because you want to play with your friends doesn't mean the killer should have to suffer an unfair advantage against people who actually play the game seriously. We do that because it's impossible to separate the ones who "just want to play with friends" aka those who claim they don't care about winning, and those who play SWF just because it gives them an unfair advantage and they want to win. You can't balance the game around survivors who don't care about winning.

  • Johnny_XMan
    Johnny_XMan Member Posts: 6,424
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    Stop blaming SWF for your own mistakes.

    Solo Queue doesn't suck because they don't have comms, they are often just bad at the game and not very efficient. Stop trying to paint a false picture of what is actually happening.

  • MilManson
    MilManson Member Posts: 939
    edited April 2022
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    I'd be beyond ecstatic if they removed SWF queues or make it KYF only.

    I'd buy as much currency as BHVR wanted if they did that.

  • MikaelaWantsYourBoon
    MikaelaWantsYourBoon Member Posts: 6,564
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    You can balance game without punish anyone. Buff solo-q, make them close to SWF and buff killers. Simple.

    Sure this needs so much work and effort but more healthy than punish people.

  • StarLost
    StarLost Member Posts: 8,077
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    Yes and no.

    The issue is that a killer is matched correctly against a bunch of people at 1350 MMR (hypothetical). They're all solo players, and the match is pretty even.

    Then the killer is matched against the same survivors, at the same MMR, but now they have the advantage of coordinating perks, addons, map offering, sharing information, coordinating unhooks and sabos and all that horrible stuff. Now the killer gets stomped, despite being at the 'right' MMR.

    The issue is that the MMR system does not account for premades, which a lot of other games do better.

    SWF does not need any changes.

    The game as a whole needs to change to account for SWF. Solos need better means to communicate, SWFs need a temporary matchmaking adjustement and the majority of killers need a hefty buff to compensate. Let's do that and see where we land.

    And...if they do, then doesn't that indicate that SWF is a problem?

  • Bladeisbest
    Bladeisbest Member Posts: 308
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    Same. This would make the game a ton more enjoyable. I don't like playing against SWF. Period. It just isn't fun.

  • gentacle
    gentacle Member Posts: 260
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    I don't mind survivors playing with their friends. I just hate the current meta and the vicious cycle that buffing solos indirectly buffs SWFs harder, just as buffing perks buffs blight and nurse. Ever since I started playing last year we've gotten buffs to Borrowed Time, Dead Hard, pallet hit evasion, the crazy boil over meta, Circle of Healing, that whole month of december where snowmen made some killers impossible to play, undying nerf (which i'm fine with), and a slew of changes to killers that made them even weaker while nurse and blight consistently got buffs. No one thought Deathslinger was top tier. Twins nerfs were unjustified. Did Blight really need adrenaline vial to give him everything?

    In return killers got uh, the hatch change. And proposed demo nerfs. And a bunch of addon changes that virtually did nothing but looked like the killers were getting some TLC. And the decisive strike "nerf" that just meant it wasn't a wow style paladin shield for 60 seconds. And none of these changes happened without some sweeping buffs to survivor perks around the same time. DS change led to BT being always on. There's no counterplay to it. Stealth killers now have to deal with deep wounds and body blocking. Teleport characters can't outplay it. Hatch change coincided with a huge announcement around it for survivors to use their keys and Boon: Circle of Healing immediately followed.

    It's like BHVR has two children and one of them is very upset when the other gets a present so they also have to get a present. Speaking as a killer main, I don't feel like we're even asking for much. We would just like to be able to play who we want and not feel like an idiot when RNG/strong metas prevent us from using over 95% of our options. We have limited options to do fun perk synergies while remaining competitive, and almost all of them are doubly busted when used on nurse/blight compared to "normal" killers. While off the top of my head I can think of 3-4 perk combinations that become viable just because you're now on voice comms with your teammate. Flashlight/break out saves. Boil over/sabotage bullying. Circle of healing/body blocking builds. Circle of healing/anything builds.

    So if I pick pinhead, and I get Lery's I'm statistically not going to have a good time because my power won't even work on it half the time. If I'm a survivor and I have 3 friends with me, and on the off chance we're not burning realm addons, if we get Lery's it's not a big deal. In fact I can't even think of a map right now that's tilted anywhere towards Killer advantage.

    The problem isn't SWF. The problem is 75% of the killer roster isn't even viable to begin with and then it keeps getting worse while the two killers who are viable in 99% of scenarios just keep getting buffs to keep up with the survivor buffs.

    Anyway just my two cents, <3

  • JamnJelly
    JamnJelly Member Posts: 139
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    When I, as an Ash III at the time, can be matched with 2 Iris, a Gold II, and a Bronze I, that can present problems. The matchmaking is botched as is.

  • EvilBarney666
    EvilBarney666 Member Posts: 323
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    No one lol. Cause they know it's useless against swf. 🤣

  • DoritoHead
    DoritoHead Member Posts: 3,546
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    Look, the best they could ever do is buff solo queue to have more communication with teammates (in-game voice chat, ping system, etc.) and then balance the killers around SWF.

  • KingFieldShipper
    KingFieldShipper Member Posts: 612
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    Wait wait wait are you trying to say Billy is weak and powerless to swf? Do you even play billy, and if so, how many hours do you have with him? What style of billy do you play? Do you go for curves only (ie double engravings), primarily a m1lly, or are you more of a doom + lopro kinda person, or something else? Why do you think he is massively affected by swf? He isn't affected by swf any more so than blight or nurse is. I main billy, I play double engravings and 90% chance I go against swfs every day and I do just fine. There are many issues with billy right now, namely collision, but swf is really the least a billy should be concerned with.

    I will defend my billy boy until the day I die.

  • ArcaneCypher
    ArcaneCypher Member Posts: 5
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    There is a power imbalance with SWF against killers and the main thing that creates this is the ability to communicate freely and plan ahead/ in the moment. I don't really like pulling peeks into the equation to fix any gameplay related issue because forcing or requiring a meta of perks to fight against something that's usually hard to realize before hand isn't fair on any party. People should be able to play in the styles they want with out forcing a meta.

    Having seperate queues is a good idea but I think it would just add to the problem of even longer queue times than we already have to suffer and could end up alienating SWF as killers will be more inclined to choose solo queues for easier gameplay, some enjoy the challenge but I think most do not.

    I think there should be an in game voice communication, both mic and what was suggested in the Player Satisfaction Survey in the form of a ping wheel of sorts. Although this will ultimately create an influx of reports due to toxic behaviour, communication bans would be easy to implement anyway. I've always found the idea for proximity chat to be a fun addition for both the survivors and killers to have banter etc but some would just take it too far and I think that's probably the main reason we don't see it.

    If we gave all survivors the chance to have fair communication it would ultimately lead to killers needing to adapt to be more on top of things and to become more unpredictable.

    SWF won't go away as it's such a big part of the community now but creating some sort of communication I find would even it out in the essence of survivors

    As for killers it's abit harder, depending on MMR the higher you are the more likely you should be placed against these as you should be capable at a high MMR to cope with such things imo, maybe extra rewards for it would encourage killers to try hard but idk. It's hard to judge a good and fair system when you're a player rather than a developer who can see it from a coding perspective

  • Magicalclawz
    Magicalclawz Member Posts: 14
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    I think he struggles way more, especially against experienced swf, im not taking about swf that are actually garbage players but are only winning cause of communication im talking about swf where every individual player knows how to counter me even when i play to the best of my abillity. buff billy clown and wraith against swf now!

  • KingFieldShipper
    KingFieldShipper Member Posts: 612
    edited April 2022
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    Is this not true of any killer, though? SWF or not. Most killers have clear counterplay. For instance, while hard, you can give a good nurse a good run for their money and force them into predicting where you go by being unpredictable in your movements and constantly breaking line of sight. Me, who has tons of hours into billy, can run a double engravings billy too while my team might go down in a matter of seconds, doesn't make him not good though against swf.

    I don't think billy needs buffs. Adjustments, sure, but he's completely viable. I'd rate him mid a tier, no where near clown or wraith. He is one of the hardest, if not THE hardest killer to master. His chainsaw is incredibly tough to master. Again, if you are having issues with him vs a swf I'd be happy to analyze some gameplay or something, and honestly recommend watching someone like gtVel (one of the best billies around, and he is always down to give people tips or advice)

  • Hawk81584
    Hawk81584 Member Posts: 405
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    I honestly don’t know how people come here so often, this is by far the most depressing forums I’ve ever seen in any game I’ve went to forums on. I think the reality is killers want easy mode, where they don’t have to learn to get better at the game. You remove swfs the game won’t last another month, I firmly believe that

  • ThiccBudhha
    ThiccBudhha Member Posts: 6,988
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    You should check out the Overwatch forums. This place is sunshine and rainbows where the happiness doesn't stop relative to that hellhole. I come HERE for the cheer. If I am in an edgy depressed move, OW is the way to go.

  • Gorgonia
    Gorgonia Member Posts: 1,607
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    If you are SWF in a group of 2, you get 3 perks each. A group of 3, 2 each. A group of 4, 1 each.

    Solo Qs still get their 4 perks :D

  • Tryharder
    Tryharder Member Posts: 173
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    Tbh survivors kinda remind me of support mains. People think Brigitte was fair but she literally killed overwatch. now circle of healing swf and dead hard are killing this game too

  • AndyKuky
    AndyKuky Member Posts: 84
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    You can’t balance the game around SWF because killers are already powerless against SWF. I can’t imagine playing every match where the survivors have SWF potential even if they are four solo players.

  • Barbarossa2020
    Barbarossa2020 Member Posts: 1,367
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    And not doing anything about game health will kill it as well. Have fun surviving with your friends when there is a lack of Killers.

    My solution:

    Give swfs a handicap. For every player in a swf give them a repair speed slowdown.

    4 man swf gens take 15% longer or whatever figure you want.

    But for all the positives survs find with swfs, it makes the game Horrible for : Balance, Solo's, newbies and 90% of the killer roster.

  • DangerScouse
    DangerScouse Member Posts: 989
    edited April 2022
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    Why not give killers the option to dodge swf groups?

    Either by having the flagged in the lobby, or by allowing for them to be "turned off", similar to cross play.

    That way killers who aren't bothered by, or enjoy being stomped can still go against them if they so wish. But the rest of us are spared the misery.

  • DriplordDrew
    DriplordDrew Member Posts: 246
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    Ok but what would you do then? Take away SWFs? Good by most survivors because solo q is hell on earth. I am sorry but the problem is you either balance around everyone being a SWF or your game will never be truly balanced. If you can't handle playing against SWFs then don't play killer because they will never go away. As I said you will never get rid of SWFs so you either buff solo q and killers or you will never have a balance to the game. Killers need a buff to deal with the Swat SWFs which is not all SWF groups but if you buff the killer you destroy an already terrible solo q.

  • Barbarossa2020
    Barbarossa2020 Member Posts: 1,367
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    The arugement from swfs would be that it would kill swfs being a thing, but they wont ask themselves why Killers don't enjoy versing swfs, and why solo players generally don't' like being with partial swfs.

    It will just provoke a response that every killer or solo wants easy mode and they should get good.

  • AndyKuky
    AndyKuky Member Posts: 84
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    I mostly solo queue and it’s just fine. People overrate how bad solo queue is because they’re used to easy mode SWF or they have one bad match that ruins their view of the day.

    BHVR has had years to balance the game and haven’t done it. I laugh any time someone recommends they buff solo and killers. It won’t happen.

    And sure you can say that if you nerf SWF then you kill the game but the same can be said for buffing solo survivors. What’s going to happen is anyone who doesn’t use meta killers will stop playing killer and you’ll be waiting ages to find a lobby where you’ll face Nurse or Blights nonstop. Have fun.

  • DriplordDrew
    DriplordDrew Member Posts: 246
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    I get what you are saying but as a person who has friends who at best get silver (normally stay ash) we are not a swat SWF and being dodged would suck. On the other side I have a group of friends who I would say we are a Swat SWF group. We all are decent at looping we all know where everyone is and we know how to get a minimum of 4 gens done or almost done before the first down. This is a boring way to play and honestly half the time after the 4th gen we almost completely throw to have chases and fun. I get what you are saying about having an easy mode and the argument of get good and I see that often and have thrown it out at times. The problem is if you enjoy playing a weak killer no matter how good you are you will lose and if you resort to tunneling and camping you are trash and if you lose all 4 you are trash. The major change this game needs to do is put all survivors on par with each other and buff all killers that need serious buffs (90%ish need some help) and balance from there.

  • NomiNomad
    NomiNomad Member Posts: 3,178
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    The answer is because SWF's are still likely paying customers, and BHVR would never risk doing something that puts a decent sized chunk of their playerbase in an infinite queue. They just won't.

  • DriplordDrew
    DriplordDrew Member Posts: 246
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    OK so you did read the part about having the killers buffed as well? Also good for you for being solo just because you are ok with it does not mean everyone finds it fun. I can't count the number of times I get placed with potatoes and die because of it. Solo q is hell most of the time and not worth playing if you are a higher MMR survivor. I AM SAYING SWFS ARE GOING NO WHERE AND IF YOU NERF THEM THEY WILL LEAVE. EITHER BUFF SOLO Q AND KILLERS OR YOU WILL NEVER HAVE BALANCE. READ THE WHOLE POST BEFORE COMMENTING ON HALF OF IT GOD!

  • AndyKuky
    AndyKuky Member Posts: 84
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    My reply literally addresses the point about buffing solo and killers. Hint: it’s not going to happen.

    Again, buff solo survivors, and enjoy waiting ages to be stomped by a meta sweat killer, or enjoy obliterating the bot killers they have to put in the game to account for all the killers who leave.

  • DriplordDrew
    DriplordDrew Member Posts: 246
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    Ok cool give up lol they will have to buff killers or the game will die. Also your reply literally ignored the part about buffing. I am saying they need to and feel like you don't have a concept of this but I am not the one making the choices I am giving an opinion. One you clearly don't agree with cause you are here only to cry and complain. Bye bye.

  • DoomedMind
    DoomedMind Member Posts: 793
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    So damn true, also I don't know why people that just want to play with their friends casually (because no, every 4SWF are not sweaty and cocky players) would get punished because the game is unbalanced.

  • DangerScouse
    DangerScouse Member Posts: 989
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    I'm not sure they would be. Maybe even a trial to see how it would impact.

  • DangerScouse
    DangerScouse Member Posts: 989
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    But my proposal still allows people to group up. But it just gives the killer the option to avoid, or at least to know. Many high mmr killers might still want the challenge.

  • Ryan489x
    Ryan489x Member Posts: 1,447
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    you guys are missing the easiest solution of all. proximity voice chat that the killer can hear. it would force SWF's to watch what they say and if they're not careful it can help a killer.

  • DriplordDrew
    DriplordDrew Member Posts: 246
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    Very well said. This also goes to the sweaty killers how destroy new survivors and make them quit though this is more the MMR's fault for pitting them together. The number of times SWF groups just have to sacrifice one person because the killer is facecamping also makes the game unfun. SWFs are a problem but the toxic atmosphere does not only come from the one side. As you said you make your bed and you lay in it same goes for killers. You camp we gen rush. Easy.

  • AndyKuky
    AndyKuky Member Posts: 84
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    What exactly am I crying about? If either of us are crying, wouldn't it be you? Mr "solo queue is too hard!!!1"

  • microppman
    microppman Member Posts: 69
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    this is a master class in how to speedrun killing a successful game

  • AcelynnBen
    AcelynnBen Member Posts: 1,012
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  • microppman
    microppman Member Posts: 69
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    yea and its impressive that you're better at doing it then BHVR

  • AcelynnBen
    AcelynnBen Member Posts: 1,012
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    its just a suggesting to try and stop killers from leaving the game

  • gentacle
    gentacle Member Posts: 260
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    I've already seen what survivors type to me, I'm not sure my twitch would last a day if they had open mics fr fr 😅

  • MilManson
    MilManson Member Posts: 939
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    Well if you genrush you'll get camped or NOED, don't complain if a killer does them.

  • PleassBuiltInNoed
    PleassBuiltInNoed Member Posts: 618
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    Killer has been under that sort of punishment for 5 years already, it's up for a change.

  • MilManson
    MilManson Member Posts: 939
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    They'd find a way around it, on my laptop, there's an anti-virus setting that can disable microphone input on specific programs if I wanted to whilst still having it active on everything else.

  • GannTM
    GannTM Member Posts: 10,853
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    These kinds of posts are really getting tiring.

  • sulaiman
    sulaiman Member Posts: 3,214
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    Not only, but mostly. I play mostly solo survivor, and i get so many games with decent killers, that neither camp nor tunnel, and yet my teammates wait at the gate and start teabagging as soon as the killer comes. Yes, thats toxic, and its comming from one side mostly.

  • DriplordDrew
    DriplordDrew Member Posts: 246
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    Oh so that is the only reason a killer camps? Wow who know that the person camped at 5 gens was because they were gen rushing. Amazing you all heard it here 😂.

    "I only see the one side being toxic there for its only coming from one side" lol okay well just wait you will come to find killers just as toxic.