Flip-Flop
I wonder why nobody takes Flip-Flop,
perhaps it is because of the fact that even if I play Bill, slap Flip-Flop and Unbreakable on him,
no matter how far from the hook the killer is,
he will always have enough time to hook you,
you could be 80% recovered, still hooked,
no Agitation no Iron Grasp,
no you have to be 95% recovered, and while hitting all great wiggle skillchecks you have to pray that the hook isn't right around the corner,
it almost feels like there's more hooks than grass when I run this build,
now what if I wanted to actually have fun and utilise my perks?
most exhaustion perks work, they do their job.....
Botany knowlage for faster heals for friends,
even Deja Vu feels more useful than Flip-Flop, does that perk still exist?
Comments
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My buddy uses Unbreakable, Flip Flop, Power Struggle and Boil Over.
It's been pretty funny to see
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I see it quite a lot from players running the Power Struggle perk alongside
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Almost like it would be borderline broken if it consistently denied hooks on its own.
That's not to say if couldn't do with another effect, but this is one of those perks that could become very, very strong if overtuned.
Also, regarding useless perks, there's always the other Ash teachable.
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Who says it denying hooks on it's own, it's completely nonexistant if the killer instantly picks you up,
the only time the perk is allowed to work is when a person is left on the ground for at least 15 seconds,
or the fact that you can get downed right next to a hook too,
if you mean Buckle up, it's because most anti-slug perks are rarely useful because usually the killer picks up someone soon after downing them
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You can thank the DS nerf for that.
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It’s simply not good unless you run power struggle with it.
Take it from the guy who tried to run flip flop unbreakable without power struggle for over 50 matches and got value out of it exactly 2 times, and in neither of those games did it actually end up mattering at all.
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The conversion aspect of the perk needs to be removed IMO.
I'm not talking about its 50% limit maximum, I'm referring to the conversion rate that a lot of people don't notice or always forget.
For instance, I've seen people expect to receive a 30% wiggle boost after recovering 30% on the ground... Nah you'll receive a 15% wiggle boost instead.
I understand why there's a maximum, but the conversion needs to go. If you've recovered 30%, you should receive the 30% wiggle boost.
I don't think the perk would be OP from this since:
1) Requires to be slugged for a good amount of time
2) You might've gotten down in front of or close to a hook
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The issue with that is you can’t make that balanced without nerfing power struggle. It needs to be buffed in a different way.
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I don't mind if Power Struggle is nerfed.
For a perk to be classified as good, it shouldn't "need" or require another specific perk to do that. Hence why I think Open-Handed's ability does not warrant it to be good at all.
Heck reduce the threshold of Power Struggle back to its original form or make its requirements different.
BHVR is handicapping Flip-Flop and that conversation rate needed to go a LONG time ago. They probably wanted to give this perk a chance so they incorporated Power Struggle, but now it feels like the perks are tied up together since they only feel useful when they're played together. They need to go back and re-evaluate their perk designs.
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if ur not tunneling DS is never utilised
what if killer is 4 steps from the hook but ur 95% recovered? the 5% isn't that slow to wiggle
or just don't walk through pallets? the only time you need to do that is when you wanna go through shack basement
yeah but it's also very overwhelming when the killer faces 4 survivors with total of 16 perks each doing something useful
while he is alone with 4 perks, one of which could be easily destroyed hex while the surv can forever relit the boons
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Funny how I seem to get off without flip flop, boil over etc, and with zero progression.
Maybe you have the wrong idea about flip flop, its not meant to get you off the back 100% of the time, but occasionally. And not when you get downed right next to a hook. Flip flop paired with unbreakable and petrified can be quite good, maybe a bit too good sometimes, especially in a team scenario where people have breakout, saboteur, flashlights. If you get hooked in that scenario, its entirely your own fault.
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Oh really? Bodyblocking SWF and people with Breakout which is 99% of the time SWF makes Flip-Flop viable?
You don't say?
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You want it to be viable 100% of the time, so you won't ever get hooked. Survivors have 16 perks... And you complain you sometimes have to mix and match a perk to make it viable...
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I love devs to give killers 16 perks, but only 4 of them apply to any surv (same as surv perks apply only for the surv that have it) so we don’t see this kind of comments again
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I think you make it harder to get of the killers back, than it really is. Sure if you get downed infront of a hook, the chance for a teammate saves you with flashlight is probaly higher than you getting flip flop value. There are multiple maps with hook spawns, where flip flop should give enough value to get a chance to get of the back, even without teammate interactions (ofc. if the killer dont pick you up instantly).
Besides that, the perk would be broken if you got of the back everytime. + This perk really shines when the killer likes to slug, and imo, unbreakeble or soulguard are better slug counters, and boil over are (again imo) a way better "get of the back perk".
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Oh I agree perks shouldn't be fully dependent on other perks, at least in general. Open-Handed is kinda an exception though as it's specifically designed to make other perks stronger and has no effect on its own. The other exception that comes to mind is Undying; although it does show auras near dull totems, no one runs it just for that and its main effect requires another hex to be used for it to mean anything.
On the other hand, Flip-Flop can have an effect by itself; it's just rather weak and unreliable.
Having said that, if you’re ok with nerfing PS to fix this, then a potential way to address it I think would be something like this:
”Flip-Flop: Increased conversion rate to 60/65/70%, up to a maximum of 50% wiggle progression. While in the dying state and not being carried, you see available hook auras within 32 meters of the spot you were downed at.
Power struggle: Increased activation requirement to 25/23/21%.”
This means that flip flop is stronger on its own (and also has a new, additional effect allowing you to plan a bit better), but running both perks together requires the same amount of recovery - rather than needing 30% at 50% conversion (thus translating to 15% wiggle), you need 30% at 70% conversion (thus translating to 21% wiggle which is the new requirement at tier 3). PS on its own would technically be weaker but only by a very small amount.
“Just don’t walk through pallets”
I don’t. But I do pick up survivors who went down under pallets after making sure no one is around to rescue. You can buff flip flop, but you can’t make power struggle much faster to activate without making it busted.
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No? It's not viable even if you took all 3 other perks to support flip-flop which I am fine with..
You again, keep wording it "it would be really stupid no skill and broken if you got off their back everytime just because you have flip-flop"
I'm not a survivor main, I don't want to have a get out of jail free card just because I started crying,
I literally said, there are lot of times where even if you fully recover to 95%, thanks to unbreakable and them leaving you on the ground,
you still don't have enough juice to wiggle out free, the hooks are just too close to each other,
and the only time you get to wiggle out is when the killer is very slow at hooking you and that's it.
Sometimes u can pick up under pallets because you know nobody is near
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It's an anti-slugging perk. It's only suppose to give you value if the killer leaves you on the ground. I really don't get the complaint about how a perk designed around helping you against being slugged does nothing when you aren't slugged.
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A useless perk because it means you need to be downed, when the objective isn't to get downed.
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Got a Yui with this on Swamp. Tried several times but did not make it to the hook.
Works pretty well.
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In a way it's actually slightly better than before for a simple reason: scourge hooks.
I notice more "risky carries" than before, where I get to 85%+ wiggle progress. And at that point the recovery I could do if the killer does as little as kick a pallet or chase another survivor away from me for a few seconds might actually make a difference.
I should give it a shot, I genuinely wonder if I'm overestimating how much wiggle progress I can get from it if the killer delays the pickup by even 5-10 seconds or not now 🤔
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If it's anti slugging perk than tell me why does it still not work when slugged
I think it could be overestimated since regardless scourge hooks you can be picked up instantly after downed making no value out of it
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