General Discussions
General Discussions
Grabbing Off the Hook Promotes Camping
I don't know what they did these days, but I cannot even successfully fake a save anymore. I'll let go and still get grabbed right after. Helps those face campers at end game I guess.
Is saving now a thing of the past while a killer is face camping?
Comments
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Faking is still a thing
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No, it doesn't.
And to answer your question: No, it's not.
You can easy be stormed by group of people with meta perks, BT on, DS and you get 0.
Unless you play VS Bubba I quess.
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You know what also promotes camping? 90% of survivors running the same 6 perks that allows them to get 40 seconds of chase value for pressing a single button.
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This is a stale statement, you can't say what people can not do, and I'm not saying it's right to only play meta stuff.
Also I bet that even if killers were stronger than survivors, camping and face camping would still be a thing. Killers also camp survivors that are bad at looping.
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Well yeah camping while being op would most definitely be a thing. There hasn't been a single game where a play style gets power crept but people don't do it until it just gets fully removed.
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Actually camping is more promoted by killers feeling the inability to do multiple chases and get downs. This can be amplified by certain maps and setups...
Not to mention if players have pushed gens and leave the person on hook for awhile why wouldn't a killer go back to camp the next stage?
You want killers not to camp? Balance so they dont have to, I can assure you alot of people camp because they dont know what else to do and they just dont want to be bullied or not even secure a kill.
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What promotes more campers is camping, tunneling and noed. Killers get free kills and then the mmr put them against good survs. And they don’t know how to play, so they camp and come here to cry
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Camping drops mmr though. There's even a point deduction for post game stats.
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Camping let bad killers get kills. Same as noed.
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It always has. Very illogical mechanic. But there are plenty in DbD.
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Emblem reduction, not MMR.
grades =/= MMR
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what if it's an experienced camper that expects the fake and M1s you when you hold them for too long for it to be faked?
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Fake it all you want. Just gonna rev chainsaw through it and down both of you, BT or not.
Bubba dont care about your fakes or BT
Maybe stop hook swarming
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Then don't fake. I've caught a few killers off guard with that
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If hook grabbing didn't exist, survivors would be able to get unhooks for absolutely free as long as the killer doesn't have some instadown ability. That's not a good thing. Hook grabs are fine.
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Survivors unhooking in the killer's face should not be a viable strategy.
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And how am I supposed to know when they will wait for me to fake, and when they won't?
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that's pretty much how it works
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This thread brought to you by gaslighting 101.
Survivor runs to unhook in killers face, and it's the killers fault for staying and trying to unhook.
Threads like this clearly illustrate how survivors accuse killers for their own behavior.
Hook grabs DO NOT promote camping. You unhooking in front of killer does.
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That's called a "mind game" and works both ways.
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It exists so people can’t just unhook in front of the killer’s face.
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To be fair, most of my hook grabs are when a team ######### up and waited to the edge of a hook stage change and we both know it, so I can grab them since they ‘have to’ get unhook or lose a player/progress.
sometimes they gotta unhook in killers face.
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Survivors around Hooks promotes Camping
Quick saves are another thing that promotes Camping
Fast Gens promote Camping.... It's the Progression V Regression debate
Anything else???
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That's not what gaslighting means. God people throw around this word a lot, and this is just a way to make some 'side' in these crappy debates sound more irrational and even abusive than they really are.
Let's face it, when survivors unhook in front of the killer, it's because the killer isn't going to leave the area anyway. What's the other option? Just hold M1 again because killers refuse to play the game beyond one chase and patrolling a hook? After the fourth game in a row it becomes extremely boring. You can easily secure a trade even without an insta-down.
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"Let's face it, when survivors unhook in front of the killer, it's because the killer isn't going to leave the area anyway."
And look, more gaslighting.
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Camping is a valid action/ strategy and vs the majority of the killer roster, it’s easy to counter. Why should survivor’s be entitled to free unhooks?
Also with roll back, grabbing off the hook doesn’t work half the time anyway.
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Why would the killer leave the hook if someone (or multiple people) are coming for the save before they’ve even had a chance to?
Also, why would the killer leave the hook when they’ve got it right between a strong 3 gen?
Etc etc
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The two health state grab (grabbing healthy survivors) at hooks should go. It does promote camping. Not having this as an option for killer would encourage killers to take chases.
Like even Camping Cannibals go for the grab, not the chainsaw.
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No. Not while CoH exists at all for 10 second heals.
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Two health state grabs are encouragement for losing killers. Losing killers should still have to earn their kills.
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Removing unhook grabs or nerfing them in any capacity doesn’t punish only reckless camping. It hurts strategic/smart camping and rewards people recklessly unhooking in front of the killer’s face.
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Survivors aren't supposed to have free saves against killers when they already have ~5 meta perks to help them in that situation they don't need more
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Without the grab any healthy survivor could just storm the hook and unhook in your face because the cd after hitting is long enough
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In a world where killers can only grab injured survivors, killers can still camp (or proxy or be super strategy guy as Suzu says) the hook and apply pressure there. Just not the automatic down with a grab.
I think killers are crutching on this mechanic too much rather than taking (and learning to win) chases.
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Punishing non reckless camping is stupid and unnecessary.
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and removing it would encourage hook farming, which is equally bad.
cause why would we need a penalty for somoene who decides to unhook right in the Killers face? its not like they were actively messing with the Killers primary objective or anything, which said Killer already struggles to complete... oh wait.
why do people always think that just because they want to save now that this somehow means they were entitled to get the rescue?
if the Killer is very close to the hook, you shouldnt even think about going for the rescue in the first place, let alone demand getting it! You either wait until the Killer is gone and gives you an opening, or you do generators and punish them for dropping all their map pressure in favor of killing off one individual.
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Bro, I know you think you gonna punish killers with your little edgy opinion, but truth is I don't go for grabs, and I am just gonna sit here with my chainsaw ready to chop through your Borrowed Time and put both of you on the ground.
And as you lay there holding m1 to recover, know, that it was YOUR fault for what just happened.
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Hook grabs are there to give going for an unhook in the killer's presence an actual risk to it, it can backfire and net you nothing. Survivors should learn how to unhook safely, give the killer a chance to leave.
In theory, this is perfectly logical, that's how it should be.
There's two issues that I'm not 100% sure of the solutions to
Killers who refuse to leave the hook until they secure stage two, without BT or DS - you either trade, farm or worst case scenario get grabbed and slugged. The counterplay to camping has always been "do gens" sure, but you're also letting a teammate essentially die meaning it's probably going to end up a 3 v 1 very quickly and you don't want that. As a survivor you want to spread out hook states as much as possible
The other issue is everyone's favourite "hook grab" minigame where the survivor knows they'll get grabbed, so they have to keep faking it and the killer knows if they go for a grab, it'll likely get cancelled and become a normal M1 instead causing a stalemate situation at hooks. I'm personally not a fan of this but like I mentioned earlier I'm not sure how to fix it.
The only 'solution' that comes to mind is something I think Otz suggested at one point, making only injured survivors grabbable while unhooking, like how medium vaults work. Would be a straight nerf to killer though and I'm not completely for it but it's an idea.
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21.3 actually
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It's not just you, I have specifically let go many times because I'm pretty good at the timing and still sometimes get lag grabbed. You see your character let go and then a second later you're getting grabbed.
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This is cause of latency and it is unavoidable, since both sides have to predict the future.
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Kind of in bad faith to present these reasonable contexts yet forego the actual bore that is killers camping as a default because 'muh mmr 2 hard' or just to grief. Both extremely boring and the only shred of fun to be had is to try and save the hooked from the killer.
Why would the killer leave the hook in these situations? They shouldn't. But are these realistically the main reasons they hang around the hook? Of course not. Most of the time it's some dumb facecamping Bubba or a guy that tunnelled for two minutes.
And yes, survivors whining when your specific examples are brought up is indeed entitled mentality.
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seriously.
it's not camping if the hook's getting rushed.
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Removing hook grabbing are encouragement for lazy Survivors. Lazy Survivors should still have to earn their unhooks.
Fair. Still hyper fast.
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I do not believe you should get the save for free if the killer is right there. I have no idea why people feel entitled to that, either. Not that I am calling survivor mains entitled, no, they are great and respectful players who are amazing community members. I just feel that perhaps a save should be earned.
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Eventually that happens when the killer proxy camps the whole time - you have no choice other than letting that player die.
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If you count the time it takes to bless a Totem, it takes longer than using Self-Care
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But then its a camping issue. The grab Mechanik is totally fine and all of you wouldnt see it nearly as much if camping weren't a problem because then it would be your fault
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I think CoH is fine but your point is misleadingly simple.
Self-Care is 32.
Blessing a dull is 14. CoH self heal without anything else is 21s. 35 total for one self heal. It immediately redeems itself with 2 self heals.
CoH ally heal is ~18.2s. 32s for one ally heal. It redeems itself with 2 ally heals (eg 2 injured people healing each other).
CoH shines because it pays back its value very easily.
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It’s not in bad faith, the point is to demonstrate that camping is legitimate therefore survivors are not entitled to free unhooks.
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