If Dead Hard and NOED were both removed from the game...

Meh NOED is annoying but w/e get your kill cause you played like trash. I don't use DH so I wouldn't miss it. Honestly you take both out or even on the other side will cry. If they both go you are going to have both side set their crying eyes on another perk.

DH and NOED can get deleted and forgotten.

If noed goes, adrenaline goes.

I would be fine with it I don't use noed and I use balanced landing usually

NOED rewards a killer for not getting everyone dead before doing the gens which is their objective. After the last gen it become stopping them from leaving. Adrenaline rewards a survivor for getting all the gens done. They are not the same thing.

Adrenaline is not really comparable to NOED imo. The only thing they have in common is that they share the same trigger condition.

Adrenaline rewards the survivors for successfully completing the majority of their objective, while NOED rewards the killer for failing to stop the gens. There's a big difference.

I'd take this trade in a second as a killer main.

wait, I thought we were playing the game to have fun. Who cares about emblems man, run head on and blood warden,, its great.

Perks are there to help each side achieve their goal. I run adrenaline on all my survs. I also think running a No Way Out, Blood Warden, Noed build for giggles produces some good fun. Much like Mad Grit. Besides that means all match the killer had no perks cept BBQ

Forgive me for having fun.

And I'm not saying you can't have fun, to be clear. If my only two options were to delete DH and NOED or to do nothing to them, I would delete them. But in an ideal world I would want DH to be nerfed and NOED to be reworked into something that has the same general idea as an endgame perk but doesn't feel so cheap, rather than just deleting both perks entirely.

There's nothing inherently wrong with the idea of an endgame build.

better yet, make them both base kit for a week and let’s see those results🥳

LOL

I run end game builds sometimes because they can be fun. And sometimes those survivors don't even get to see that endgame build, which is the most weirdly satisfying yet disappointing feeling ever. It means the survivors all got killed by a killer with no active perks and a couple of addons.

This thread also really highlights the really big disconnect a lot of you have with some of these perks and their application. Everyone always assumes NOED = bad killer, bad play, which isn't always the case. But yeah, let's just keep thinking it means only one thing instead of acknowledging other factors that also result in certain perks being equipped. Like if I notice that games are going by really fast despite my best efforts, that's when I might run an endgame build and that will change my mood because I'm responding to reams rushing through matches. Or I enter a lobby and you can just smell the sweat and Boons about to happen, which means totems stay up. And what is the bad play in that situation btw? The people putting the same Boon up on the same totem over and and over or me knowing the best thing to do after a killer snuffs a totem is cleanse that totem and move the Boon somewhere else? Because it really doesn't feel like such a bad play at all when I'm basically reading a team at the lobby and take advantage of that very common mistake. But you probably don't see it that way.

Dead Hard is way more valuable than NOED.

Killers should give up corrupt for Dead Hard at very least if not lot more

Easy deal.

I can't understand the logic of some people. Don't get me wrong I'm not a fan of NOED but people always say it's cheap because you get rewarded for failing to hinder the survs at completing the gens. Remember bhvr wants the game at a 2k/2e balance so logicly the gens should get done otherwise it would work so it's not a reward for failing anything or is my logic flawed

NOED doesn't REWARD anything, my friends.

In order for a perk to REWARD behavior, it must have some sort of gameplay requirement that forces killers into a particular style of gameplay.

Dead Hard does not REWARD anything.

Again. In order for a perk to REWARD behavior, it must have some sort of gameplay requirement that forces killers into a particular style of gameplay.

NOED and DH are aggravating because they do not REWARD any particular choice or action. They do not incentivize a particular style over another or grant increased value given some practical sense of preparation. They do not have and prior consideration or cognitive evaluation to employ.

The problem with NOED as a killer perk - and DH as a survivor perk - is that these are FREE.

They can be used with a virtual guarantee of value without any actual skill, any actual input, without any consideration or preparation.

When a survivor sees NOED pop, it's almost like the killer says 'I brought this perk, I win.'

When a killer sees DH pop, it's almost like the survivor is saying 'I brought this perk, I win.'

The problem is not the direction of the power, it is not some sense of 'Rewarding' behavior.

It is the opposite, in reality.

These perks are completely omnidirectional in their application and have no structure whatsoever to 'reward' anything. They do not require consideration or risk. They have no true vices that can make their employment difficult or challenging.

DH may have Exhaustion for 40 seconds, but NOED can be removed from the game and is a dead slot for the vast majority of the trial.

In either case, NOED will almost ALWAYS find value in a match and secure a kill. DH will almost ALWAYS find value in a match and secure safety.

There is absolutely no specificity to anticipate, drawbacks to consider, requirements to prepare, or situations to force.

There is no transaction between potential value and cost.

It is not that people who bring these perks are babies, or are being given treats for bad behavior.

It is that they simply need not do anything or consider any factor in the game whatsoever to find value, which utterly breaks the tradeoff economy that this game has in spades.

I'm a survivor main, and NOED actually doesn't bother me. Not fussed at all if i die, as long as I pulled my weight during the game. I usually get NOED vibes off certain killers anyway and cleanse or take note of totem locations so I can hit the hex totem if NOED activates. Then I die trying to get everyone out anyway lol