I believe that DBD would be a better game if you could have an option not to play against SWF
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Of course you can get better at the game. That's not my point. The point is that SWF gives the equivalent of 1 or 2 extra perks (especially when you are playing against one of those really good teams). And given that there ARE people of different skill levels playing (which will always be the case), the SWF advantage goes from a competitive edge to a completely unfair advantage, especially in a game which is designed to limit communication between players.
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The harm I could see in doing that would be NFT-levels of backlash, further driving away players. No one wants to go through that again.
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What a mature and thoughtful response. It definitely makes me think you have a well thought out position and are not just defending bad design choices that favor you personally.
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At this point, it's not whether you drive away players, but which ones you drive away. Do we want the game to essentially be a closed community because we are actively hostile to lower skill level players? Or do we want to take the risk of pissing off the folks who insist on having total communication with teammates - something the game isn't pointedly designed for in the first place?
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Collect what data?
Someone has already pointed out that shortly after the game was released there was no SWF option.
Nearly impossible to find a game because people would lobby dodge until they found their friends.
Everyone would be in the Solo queue trying to find friends again because there wouldn't be anyone to play with in the SWF queue.
You have to be completely delusional to think this would have any sort of positive impact at all.
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maybe they should just put an easy mode. where the killer gets props they can just go swing at and they dont move. i think that might just satisfy you! and btw...you dont need to collect data when the result is well known across the board. killing swfs means the end of dbd. Plain and simple
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I mean, I've got one member of a SWF trying to gaslight me so that's fun
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No malicious intent, just trying to be humorous. Appreciate the aggressive response towards me for no reason.
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Why people keep saying the game will instantly die if swf was tone down? I don’t see any reason people who enjoy playing solo will quit. It only takes one survivor to loop a killer, nothing won’t change you just actually have to try instead of having 3rd party comms carry you.
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I think they should incentive both sides to play. For example: if the killer opts to play against swf they get bonus blood points AND shards. The swf would not get anything as they are at an advantage.
On the flip side, if a killer chooses to go against solos, the solos get the bonus xp and shards. Make it more worth while shards or auric cells would do that.
Most killers I think would chose to play against swf as they get rewarded for it Even knowing they are at a disadvantage. I mean hell, killers play against swf now. What's the difference?
A least that's my 2 cents. Just do something.
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The only part I like when I play against a cocky SWF squad is slugging them all, or taking Myers and killing half of them with addons to kill survivors
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I think you might've misspelled dead game. without swf, this game wouldn't last as long as it did today, and by basic business strategies, you have to prioritise the majority more than the minority. sorry lad, just perhaps play omega blink nurse and you'll be okay.
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can't always get what you want. i mean, i'd love to know what killer i'm up against or at least their addons, and i'd love the ability to check their steam profile and ping so i can dodge them just like how they dodge lobbies once they see a single flashlight.
unfortunately, survivors don't have the same luxury as killers pre-match, so it's more than fair.
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Who likes solo?
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Those folks you would piss off make up far to much of the playerbase. The devs know this, and have decided on a course of slowly raising the solos towards the info and possible coordination that a SWF has already. The end goal apparently is for it not to really mattering whether or not comms are in use.
Based on their past history I believe they have no intention to debuff SWF, warn killers in the lobby, split the playerbase, limit group size or perks or items or offerings, etc. None of it, just adjusting solo gameplay bit by bit.
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Killer mains love to face them with their meta blight alchemist ring+compound 33 combo.
Balanced
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I prefer solo over comms.
For this game.
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That would be a rollback to 2016 dbd which is when people just queue dodged until they finally slid into the same lobby as a friend. It would make getting into matches tedious.
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And then a week of DS BT DH UB basekit , you know, just to gather data... Not everything needs testing when it's obvious what effect things will have
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i prefer swf but without comms. Just finished playing against a Freddy. He goes for me first I loop him for 2 gens. Me and my friend are on death hook as we were constantly getting chased off the hook. The two fengs didn’t take hits or go for saves. Did nothing to help
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I understand. Having reliable teammates is nice.
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I'd prefer the killer getting a BP bonus that scaled with the size of the SWF group; plus scaling movement speed and action speed.
A duo group? 50% extra BP, plus 1% movement speed buff and 10% extra action speed.
3 stack? 75% extra BP, plus 2% movement speed buff and 15% extra action speed.
4 man SWFs? 100% extra BP, plus 3% movement speed buff and 20% extra action speed.
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This is basically the 'solo vs comp' mode argument without the middle man.
But, by default, every killer will just have it off anyway.
it's just going to hurt groups of enthusiastic players without making the game healthier.
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I like solo.
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remove swf then nerfs to both sides can be made we actually get to see new gameplay or just create new game mode as you announce 6th anniversary and ignore it (most likely scenario).
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No. Let people play with their friends, and don’t nerf, nerf, nerf. Not everything needs a nerf. Sometimes, buffing is the right call. And DbD really isn’t a game that can or should have multiple play modes. The only additional one needed is single player training mode with bots.
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How far will buffs be needed to match voice coms ?, trapper and hag trap info can be given through voice where kindred basekit will not suffice. Then so many other killer abilities that can denied having info through voice comms, a gap I would like to argue will never be meet by buffs as it becomes a wallhacked game. % on gens where to team up to smash that gen. Yes most will not communicate at this level but then we have blight and nurse who’s current powers are justified due to swf. Nerfing in this case will be easier and accurate since solo would only be given a small buff (basekit kindred & BT(not denied by Patrick), while swf still being able to give more info to their teammates.
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Agreed. Voice comms is simply a reality of online gaming that will never go away. I don’t think you can, or should, try to balance around it.
Solo queue is in the most miserable state it’s ever been, and kill rates seem to reflect relative balance toward the desired two kill/two escape balance ratio. Survivors got one new meta perk in October, which has already been nerfed twice (as of tomorrow). There’s nothing that can really be buffed or nerfed in their base kit, to my mind. Killers could use a 5% base damage when kicking generators, but outside that not sure how you’d buff or nerf them base kit.
Also, I might have run into your boss:
Who is Suzzy?
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Allowing to dodge SWFs would kill the game.
A couple of years ago, I've done some statistics about my encounters.
It was:
- SWF4 : 20%
- SWF3 : 40%
- SWF2 x 2 : 10%
- SWF2 + 2 solos : 10%
- Solos : 7%
I couldn't determine the remaining 13% with certainty.
The distribution may have changed slightly but probably not much.
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But that's looking at it only from one side of the equation too. SWF makes little to no difference against a certain level of killer. It's pretty much a non-factor because that player is essentially an AI and the SWF is doing what they should be doing anyway.
We're basically talking about matchmaking issues at the end of the day. If the game came down to survivors being intelligent and the killer couldn't react or play accordingly, it was probably a mismatch first and foremost.
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SWF's would never get games lol... survivor queues are already bad enough and I notice killers still dodge a lot even though I personally only play solo 99% of the time.
Not many people would willingly choose to play against SWF's very often
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I think you should absolutely have an option to not play against SWFs as killer, but you should also have the wait times that accompany that. SWF queue should get priority on solo queue fills also.
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so it won’t matter if swf was only allowed in custom games since y’all don’t like solo survivors
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Ranked and Unranked lobbies. Unranked is like KYF but online against a random killer. Ranked is like the normal game with the inability to invite friends or team up.
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I actually enjoy SWF. Call me crazy but I enjoy going up a good team. Tests my skill level
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Why not that is fair killer not allowed to tryhard like them?
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Killers would only play against Solo's, it would straight up kill being able to play with friends.
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There's this stigma that SWF makes some kind of HUGE impact on the game, but it really doesn't. It's very rare that you actually face a SWF that plays like they are SWAT team, and most games that the Killer feels like the Survivors were way too strong tend to be a team of experienced Solo players.
Honestly if they just showed who was SWF in the end game scoreboard that may alleviate some of the stigma.
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Do you honestly think the declining player numbers are due to people solely playing one particular role in the game?
Completely clueless.
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Matching the full informational power of voice comms is impossible. That being said, we should have basic stuff that should already be part of the game; including, but not limited to, what your teammates are doing.
We already have a HUD Indicator for when someone's in chase. We should have one for when someone's on a gen, when someone's healing, when someone's unhooking, etc. Basekit kindred and basekit BT are also excellent ideas. Solo Queue needs the basic callout information that SWF has.
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Well, if people don't want to play against SWFs, there is a clear problem.
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I agree with almost everything you said but the bot part. Mores specifically about second-guessing.
It's possible to make a bot weaker that its perfect self simply by adding some kind of jitter in its actions simulating human imprecision. Its choices can also be garbled a bit so instead of taking what if believes to be optimal will be ignored for the second or third choice (an example, of course).
Beside that technical detail, yes : fighting bots is not satisfying at all.
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In a game thats build around not having info voicechat certainly breaks a few things. The game isnt build for it if it can emulate that many perks.
I reckon most people arent really against swfs, but swfs tend to be using voicechat.
I think it'd be a start to make teams actually a thing in a trial. Bloodpoint score, emblems etc should account for teams (more bp for healing nonteammates, no unsafe unhook score etc)
The basic chatwheel "focus gens, i need healing" is btw the best solo-swf gap solution without buffing swfs.
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I am a Killer main with over 4000 hours in the game? Are you new here - I thought most people already knew this? I advocate for Killers enough at least. I also thought this thread was about having the option to not play against SWF? You're talking about being able to see if they are a SWF, or at least how strong of a mmr you are facing. I lean closer to seeing the MMR level you are facing if they ever choose to start showing player MMR at all, but again if these statistics are shown before a match then we run into the problem of Killer's lobby dodging and Survivors with high mmr never getting into a game, Killers leaving because they reach a point where they can only find matches with players with high mmr, etc.
I am 100% for seeing if survivors were in a SWF in the end game scoreboard though. I feel like that would help Killers understand "Oh so that was a team with some coordination (through comms etc)" and can learn from that. Instead of so many newer Killers sitting in end game lobbies trying to know why they lost, or just assuming they lost to a SWF instead of learning from their own mistakes.
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Yes, the jitter is determined by taking random numbers out of a generator. In my experience, people will not notice though. (I've written that kind of bots for games in the past)
Eyesight is the same as AI cheating or not. The program knows the information but doesn't use it. You can make the program more or less blind using parameters like survivor speed, crouching, colliding with a bush, wearing bright colors, ... and get a number out of that.
Collisions are very efficiently handled by UE4. Knowing a survivor is hiding in a bush wouldn't cost much.
Chasing the weakest link could be as simple as chasing whoever is harmed/closer/has been hooked the most/...
The bot could even have a personality set as an array of probabilities of behaviors (cheap too).
Its perfection can be tuned and used for almost everything.
The only real problem is the pathing (always more difficult) but since map blocks are known, paths can be baked in the map.
I would love for their bot API to be open. I'd have a lot of fun building one.
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It's not reu that no SWFs means no game. I play solo queue all the time, as do plenty of other players where I live. I say collect the data because I suspect this "if we don't have SWFs, we'll take our ball and go home" is either a bluff or wildly misinformed. (I think it's the latter.)
The sneering, superior attitude from SWFs sounds to me a lot like "if you won't let us cheat, then we won't play!" Oh no. Really? Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out
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See, I agree with you it's obvious, but I came to the exact opposite conclusion. Wonder which one of us is right? If only there were a way to see.
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On the contrary.... if SWF wasn't possible, you'd see the game dead within days.
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