So about the LGBQT stuff
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Being an academic is like saying you have a gender studies degree. You're still not a doctor.
We're talking on the internet, while real life bills against transgender rights are being purposed by real life governments. Transgender rights are not just some quirky internet thing.
My personal experience while surrounded by other people who are also transgender is not anecdotal evidence.
And no, the predator argument isnt different. Gay people used to be accused of faking being gay just to go to bathrooms and to prey on other people. Same thing is happening now with transgender people and that also includes prison/jail.
You are right, this is not a left vs right issue, this is a people who want rights vs people who don't want others to have rights. And from your talking points, which come from a conservative view, I'm not too inclined to assume you are pro the former.
It can be seen as a storm in a teacup when the bills don't affect you in any way yes.
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Okay, in brief:
- I'm not saying I'm a doctor. But I am saying that I do have qualifications in psychology and have a pretty robust understanding of the domain.
- Yes, we're talking on the internet, on a videogame forum - which is why I didn't want to get into current IRL controversies like the 'DSG' bill. I'm happy to argue that one if you want, but let's do it in Off Topic or something, or maybe a different forum completely. We're already OT, and it's going to be a discussion that might (see: almost certainly will) upset people, and it's not one that I can really have while treading on eggshells.
- Anything that starts with 'my personal experiences' is anecdotal evidence. That's...what it means. Personal experiential evidence rather than something data based.
- ...What? No, that was never the 'predators' argument (and I'm pretty sure that there has never been a 'gay bathroom' debate either). The original one was more a really nasty attempt to paint homosexuals as pederasts. The current one is completely different and comes down to pragmatism.
- No, this isn't a 'rights' thing either. It's about accommodations and the nature of identity, probably best parsed as 'balancing accommodating transgender people within society against pragmatic concerns about fairness and bad actors'. Rights don't really come into it, because 'Rights' are a legalistic, generally constitutional issue rather than a social one.
And again, I'm happy to continue this one (later) but let's move it somewhere else - I'm sure the mods are already giving this thread the hairy eyeball.
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It was actually first revealed in the free Xmas season comic book they released where they showed her partner, Emily, as well.
But you're correct that Blizzard did not go posting it all over the internet. The player base did that for them. Same as when they revealed Soldier 76 to be gay in the Ana short story. Blizzard didn't have to market a damned thing for either instance, their happy or angry players are free marketing. 🙄
That said, Blizzard is still guilty of marketing their inclusion additions. Go watch the hour long Dev Stream on Sojourn from a week or so ago. At a time they could have gone into her ability kit, place on the roster, synergies, etc, they instead spent the entire hour pushing and pushing and emphasizing that she is the first female black character added to the game. Which made their inclusion addition then come off as a slapdash P.R. stunt, instead.
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ONE survivor is gay. Just one. Out of a couple dozen. That's hardly attention seeking or screaming it out to the world or whatever other overreaction you want to liken it to. A small percentage of the population is gay, and that's now reflected in the game with one single solitary survivor.
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Well thankfully, people who also have qualifications in psychology and psychiatry do not agree with you, that is why the DSM exists.
We're talking on the internet about real life issues, yes. Small things like having companies recognize LGBT people and include, helps normalize LGBT people, making it easier for LGBT people to get acceptance, which is visible in real life situations.
I remove my experience, since my experience about transgender people, as a transgender person, is less important than the videos you linked, apparently, but if you're going to ignore the rest of that sentence, where I mentioned real life transgender people circles, that is ok, too. :)
Yes, there were arguments also made against gay/lesbian people in terms of bathrooms. Gay men used to be accused of being groomers and conservatives did not want them in bathrooms with children, which is again one of the fear mongering tactics used against transgender people.
This is absolutely about rights, even about the most basic right of simply being and existing. "Pragmatic concerns about fairness and bad actors", again, where are the stats for those? Transgender people have a way higher risk of being sexually/physically assaulted than cisgender people. Should cisgender people be banned from bathrooms? I don't think so.
Here are some legislations pretending to anti LGBT and anti transgender in specific laws just in the US:
https://freedomforallamericans.org/legislative-tracker/anti-transgender-legislation/
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His story got changed since when? I'm still playing him and there was no indication of his bio being messed with.
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In case this is a genuine question from someone trying to learn more about the topic, I'll try to give a genuine answer.
The reason is because heterosexual is the default. Whenever you see a character, you generally assume they are heterosexual. When you meet a person in your life, you probably assume they are heterosexual. Even if you have gay friends in your life, you probably assume strangers on the street are heterosexual whether you think about it or not.
If you're not heterosexual, you also might think of others as heterosexual by default. If you're struggling with your own feelings of self, due to existing discrimination, family issues, or just generally being "different", you might feel uncomfortable and feel "wrong" or "broken". When you learn that someone else is gay and they are proud and everything is alright, it helps you to feel like you can be proud of yourself and you are perfect as you are.
That's who this is for and that's why it's important that it's loudly said and announced. It's for that person.
If you're not that person, then this announcement isn't really for you. Not every announcement, piece of news, or section of entertainment is for you or directed at you. When you fit the "default" for society, it's sometimes hard to remember that. When you aren't the "default", that's the norm.
If we lived in a different world and being straight/gay was literally 50/50 and there was absolutely no discrimination in the past, present, or future, then yes an announcement like this would be weird. We do not live in that world so it's important that we give a platform and comfort to our LGBT+ friends.
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The posts will be replaced by legion buff or nerfed some perk.
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Don't bring in the I know card. You can still be homophobic and know lgbt members. I'm a straight person who main David and I could careless if he a lgbt. I'm surprised it wasn't nea coming out or even yui.
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Only thing i got an issue about it is that we create an omniverse of non specified sexuality of characters for the people to decide for themselves. Instead we got some sort of stunt to pander which is pretty sad for the community... at least imho. I'll just continue to make David super straight as heck since its how people should play and have been and should remain.. YOUR CHOICE.
Same situation with the crypt tv killers. Yeah I'm sure all of those are lgbtq when they are all basically monsters and unique beings... such a useless pander.... Such a terrible culture to constantly think about sexuality of everything.
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If I had to take a guess I'd say that it has something to do with being oppressed and wanting to be accepted. LGBTQ+ may seem to be accepted at moments but they're far from it. I live in a bible belt state and the people here definitely hate anyone who isn't straight or white. I even had a guy scream at me while I was doing my job because he thought I was trans (and I do mean he literally screamed in a retail store).
David's announcement was definitely forced, but after having seen his tome animation I think it was a good idea. He went from being some random tough guy to needing to be tough for a good reason. Maybe this was all addressed in his prior tome entries idk, but I do think this makes him more fleshed out and interesting.
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this situation
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If I have LGBT friends and family members with which I communicate very good exactly means I am not prejudiced.
You know, homophobia cannot work on some people and don't work on other ones
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Literally you rn
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I wish I could vote this up multiple times - this is such a good post, and articulates it beautifully. The people who are genuine and want to know what 'the big deal' is should read it - the ones who don't, well we know why.
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You can accept someone who is gay because they are your friend and still be homophobic. A good example of this would be someone having a gay friend and still using the F slur against other gay people just because they don't like them.
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I know people who are part of the LGBT too. Don't worry I can say what I want too.
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Horror and slashers have always been needlessly gratuitous, but that's fine.
Having gay people in said slasher or horror? BRO STOP PANDERING, WE DONT CARE ABOUT SEXUAL ORIENTATION!
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Well I mean... and I know I'm treading deep water whenever it comes to posts like this, some people do want to be "Attention Seekers" and some don't, for those who don't, more power to them, but it's just hard to pick out who's an attention seeker and who's legit is all I'm saying
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My mother accepts me as pansexual and her relationship with me is like nothing different than before I came out, yet she constantly speaks against LGBT. Is she not homophobic by your definition?
I can imagine how much time the coding team must've spent writing David's lore.
Oh yeah I forgot, the lore and code teams are entirely different, and the tome is something that is made regardless of David being gay or not.
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Because minorities end up in concentration camps when they don't constantly fight for acceptance and rights.
Every society's majority default position is to remove minorities rights. If minorities don't constantly fight for acceptance, then the majority is going to remove those rights, one by one.
You cannot understand how stressful it is, to know that it takes one single Hitler, Francisco Franco, Robert Mugabe, or what-ever anti-gay dictator is going to come along and decide you don't deserve to live.
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Humanity was a mistake
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Well my feng is gay why isn't it in her lore I want it officially put in or I quit.
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As long as you feel the same way about Nurse,Felix,Julie and Frank being in heterosexual relationships.
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I do not particularly enjoy commenting on this sort of stuff as both sides have extremists that are just unreasonable, quite frankly. I like the idea, but I feel it was a bit forced, personally. We shall see how it turns out, this is the first time I might actually listen to the tome lore because I always forget it unlocks a voiced version.
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You're kind of rude ^^ your reaction is annoying, like, it's incredible how people can't talk about LGBTQ while criticizing some parts of the movement, and everything they will say will be turned again them as being homophobic
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You're welcome to quit if you wish.
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You're kind of rude ^^
You make the mistake of thinking I care about your opinion of me at all lol
it's incredible how people can't talk about LGBTQ[a-zA-Z]*
Get the acronym right and maybe you won't be seen as a bigot. It's not difficult- 4 letters, actually, or 5 characters are all you need. LGBT+. You can make it LGBTQ+ if you want but LGBT+ is fine. As it stands, the second someone makes a keysmash joke they're automatically seen as being anti-LGBT+ because it's an insensitive, tone-deaf, and quite frankly unfunny joke to make.
while criticizing some parts of the movement, and everything they will say will be turned again them as being homophobic
Criticising the movement? No that's fair game. It's when it turns into blatent transphobia, homophobia, LGBT+ erasure, etc. that it starts to become an issue. And, thankfully for me and not so thankfully for you, the person I was responding to has been homophobic and transphobic in other threads, and if I was allowed to post deleted comments I would more than happily supply you with ample evidence. As it stands, I enjoy not being banned, so my word and the words of others in this thread are all you'll get.
Also, just for future reference, the "I have _ friends I'm not homophobic/transphobia/racist" line is literally used to excuse someone being homophobic, transphobic, or racist so... Yeah not the best excuse to pull.
Anyway have a great day and remember, I really don't care about your opinion of me
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Well, I do not even want to know what your thoughts on Dead Hard related to this reveal are. Ha ha ha...
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This is flimsy. You can absolutely have a generally positive relationship with someone and detest parts of them. People do it all the time with family and friends, all it take is a little compartmentalization, and tolerance for some cognitive dissonance. There are members of my own extended family who have aspects that I loathe, though those are more ideological and not things they can't control, like sexuality/gender.
And as far as the OP topic, marginalized people making themselves visible and celebrating themselves has great social utility as it sends the message to others that they are not alone, and it is okay to be who you are. Sometimes it borders on the gratuitous, but that is just rebound from having to hide themselves for, you know, all of recorded history.
If that makes other people uneasy, that is a personal problem for them to grapple with.
People who are uncomfortable with that see it as gratuitous, but probably don't even notice the all the normative propaganda out there, because it seems ordinary and familiar to them.
Post edited by Thusly_Boned on2 -
"Anyway, have a great day and remember, I really don't care about your opinion of me", wow that's another level of hypocrisy, you're too much insisting on that, for someone who wishes to someone to have a great day, it's unnecessary.
On the topic again, I know what are the letters but it's just, uhh, yeah it's just too much, and, you know, I wasn't typing anything like an idiot after the LGBTQ, this is called Regex. And it's not a joke, it's just to point out the fact that it's unnecessary complicated for an acronym, I mean, yeah to some you can say LGBT+, others will spit you on the face for not saying the other letters.
Oh and YES, it's tiring to see how companies makes LGBTQ things a business, and everyone is happy. If someone recognise LGBTQ people as being completely common and normal, you wouldn't make a big deal about it. I don't think we're making any advertising for straight and/or cisgender people- or should I say, I'd like people to stop stomping and insulting cisgenders. That's why I clicked on the OP post.
You don't have to be on the defensive like that, we're just talking
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Okay, but what do you achieve by implying he is homophobic, exactly? What does that actually do? He said he isn't, he didn't like being called that as it insulted him, and now we try to gaslight him into, what exactly? You think you are going to trick him into believing it?
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I didn't even take her for a conservative politician, lmao
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If someone recognise LGBTQ people as being completely common and normal, you wouldn't make a big deal about it.
No, actually, I would, because common acceptance in media is a massive thing, and I wish the twitter post hadn't been made and people were left to discover it through the Tome normally.
I don't think we're making any advertising for straight and/or cisgender people
Because they're the norm. We live in a heteronormative and cisnormative world because they are simply the majority of people. Why would you need to advertise them, when they're presumed cishet-until-proven-otherwise by a large amount of people? When I see a country where cishet people are having their rights stripped away from them by LGBT+ people, I'll eat my words, and until then I shall point you happily over to the direction of the USA so you can see just how this is happening to LGBT+ people in real time.
You don't have to be on the defensive like that, we're just talking
Next time you want to discuss something, don't open it up with an insult. I've heard it can do wonders to get your tone across babes xx
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Wow, us straight people really can be cringe lmaoooooo.
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I don't have a dog in this fight, but the person in question made comments that I believe were taken down.
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You're walking into a monkey enclosure to ask the guy cleaning his face why they're pissed, after the place was already cleaned. Seriously. I'm frankly surprised karu is still engaging with the nasty after the last thread, just shows he is a good boy
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I mean, you know that the people who do the coding aren't also the people who do the lore writing, right?
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I personally didn't imply they were, someone else did. I was just arguing against the tired and fallacious idea that having a generally positive relationship with someone means you can't be prejudiced against them or their demographic.
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considering the absolute minefield of twitter right now too even im shocked ive made it this long without saying something to get me banned
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May be a good time to take a break and just remember how adored you are
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i fear you may be correct
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The nasties will lose interest in time to move to the next thing.
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I'm just trying to figure out what part of the lore people are claiming is being changed.
If it's "Oh well he has an ex-girlfriend so he can't be gay" well that's....... not how that works at all lol. There are literally gay people who are married to women and have children but it's either A. For show to fit into the general societal or familial expectations or B: They discover later after entering said relationship that they aren't attracted to that person anymore
Maybe there is something else that got changed, but if your argument has anything to do with his past relationship, it's a useless argument
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Why is it so important to spread the message officially across the internet that you are gay, trans whatever? If you are really considering yourself and want to live like this then you should do it for yourself not to tell it everyone around you trying to catch their attention somehow?
Because we lgbt people grow up often without the proper support system from family and ''friends'', are taught from early age that what we are is wrong, ''unnatural'', that we will go to hell, die of aids, not worthy of love and all the other lovely stuff, with that comes the struggle of actually believing all of that and then learning to love yourself again once you start to mature and live your best authentic self, it's a constant fight so OF COURSE, we are going to scream on top of our lungs that we are gay, trans, bi, whatever and that we are happy with who we are and that we accepted ourselves.
I do understand that as a straight/cis person you cannot understand this, but trust me if the world did not make a big deal out of it in the first place we would not either.
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