On the Topic of LGBT+ Representation
Firstly: I respect BHVR's efforts to include representation in the game and the reasoning behind ensuring their first character was free for everyone. So this isn't really a criticism so much as a broader question/discussion on the way these things are implemented in stories with unique narrative formats like Dead By Daylight.
Normally, if a story lacks representation, it's glaring. The romance plotlines are all heterosexual. Everyone is presumed cisgender. There is an established norm to the world and the narrative that does not accommodate for us at all. With Dead By Daylight, I never felt that. Very, very few characters have any reference to established relationships. With the lack of a standard narrative (such as in a television show), where relationships would form and become expected over time, it simply has not come up - allowing fans to easily interpret almost anyone as LGBT+, without it conflicting at all with the canon as we know it. The cues that most narratives use to indicate a hetero-dominated world - the predictable lead male/female couple, discussions of exes or dating problems - are generally just not present in Dead By Daylight. Because of this, the standard of heterosexuality is not actually applied to the vast majority of characters in the game, killer and survivor, which is an incredibly unique situation to be in.
So my concern with establishing David as THE first gay character is... have we retroactively designated the rest of the cast as straight, when the majority of them were not explicitly so to begin with? Are there plans to follow up with "reveals" on the orientations of everyone else, or will they remain ambiguous as they have so far? Though the announcement that David is gay was a great step for a lot of people, it has changed the expectations regarding character relationships and orientations, in a way where we can't exactly put the worms back in the can.
Though I know there's a lot of things the devs cannot outright say, it would be cool if there was a bit of clarity on the intention here going forward. It's a tricky place to be in to be sure, because of course we want the representation to be explicit and not solely left to fan interpretation, but I worry that the vast potential for fan interpretation will suddenly become far more limited than it was before, if instead of everyone's orientation being unstated, we now have a precedent to say who is and who is not LGBT+, canonically.
At the end of the day, it's a video game, and these characters aren't real. But I still feel like this is an interesting subject, as a gnc bi woman and a writer - how do we balance explicit representation with the (for many, liberating) sandbox of audience interpretation in a world with such a non-standard way of storytelling?
Sidenote - I just want to say I love how many cosmetic options the game provides for gnc/masculine women, and it's great to feel I have multiple options in playing people who are like me. A lot of things do not provide that!
Comments
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I can't answer all the questions as I can't discuss up coming content I'm afraid. I think we'd love to have further LGBTIAQ+ characters in our game and I hope this is the first of many. That's not to say other characters that are currently in the game are not LGBTIAQ+ themselves - some do not have a huge amount of Lore yet, their sexualities have never been discussed. There could also be future new DLC's with LGBTIAQ+ characters.
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Bhvr is gonna get flak no matter what. I think their getting more flak because of the way they done it.
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Wow that was a quick reply! I know there's a whole lot you guys can't discuss so no worries on that. I was just hoping that more of the characters we've come to love over so many years haven't been hit with the retroactive heterosexualizing beam haha. But thank you for the reply! Either way I look forward to seeing what's planned.
Yeah I don't fully get the flak. There's nothing wrong with David having dated women before realizing he's gay. There's nothing wrong with saying an established character is gay/bi/trans, especially since there is nothing in the lore to have contradicted any of it. It's been integrated naturally with his character, and he is a notable, popular character who has been around a long time, so it still has meaning to people. My hope was that it just wouldn't stop there, or lead to accidentally restricting other LGBT+ interpretations of characters. But in terms of companies adding LGBT+ characters to their properties, and a history of it being done incredibly clumsily, I think BHVR has done alright.
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The first sentence is my conclusion as well. The second one, I don’t know about. I think it’s built into the new Tome so my guess is this is all just reactionary (since yall probably don’t know more about the Tome then I do) and all the more reason for BHVR to get out of these kinds of discussions.
Yknow, since yall appear to be punishing their attempt.
Just let the fan fics handle this going forward.
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One thing that is weird to me is, making an already established character gay when they were more than likely not intended to be gay. That's where I raise an eyebrow. It's not unheard of, neither good or bad, but still it has that factor.
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To me it doesn't matter if he was "intended" to be gay or not. Not every real life human knows they're gay right away, there's no reason to hold fictional characters to some arbitrary rule about their identity or personality never evolving. There's also been a lot of people suggesting that being gay is somehow out of character for David, which is just... homophobic lol. LGBT+ people can have any personality traits and look like anything because we are normal people. (This isn't @ you necessarily just some bizarre takes I've seen)
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Still always gonna be that thought in the back if the head.
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I mean if you think someone can't actually be gay because of your own preconceptions, that's not BHVR's fault... 🤷♂️
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How about a performance update, it doesnt need to be stated but these inclusions are of either killers or survivors, who get killed or kill ppl, not good ppl and also ppl who are tormented, not exactly the kind of thing you'd see is if we should care abt orientations at all, and will more than likely create threads where ppl whine that they were tunneled playing a gay character and think it's bc who they were playing, I dont need to know if Trapper likes men, Trapper kill
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just going to post this image now
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Lore team needs a budget cut, need more budget into performance issues, infact, 100% budget allocation rn, too many bugs
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i really hope youd be saying the lore team deserves a budget cut no matter what lore we'd gotten this patch and not just because they revealed a character to be gay :sparkles:
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No, the bugs are really atrocious
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so... youre saying that youre only saying that the lore team need a budget cut because they made a character gay even though this is the same amount of normal lore they'd release..?
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No, I am saying the bugs are atrocious and need to be top priority, thats literally the only context other than cant wait for ppl to whine that they were tunneled for this reason now, though, it isnt exactly something that's important to outright say a character, one that is already established for awhile, suddenly goes rainbow, and tbh it feels more like pandering like when they removed leatherface claudette skin, like he wasnt supposed to be evil, and it goes without saying that move was inheritently against what the character was, which was a maniac, but see even now that sort of thing isnt productive at all, all this lore regardless of what it's about yet no sight for the bugs ppl have been complaining about for a long time now, I dont find orientation above all else to work out, and i see it as nothing more than pandering to ppl who wanna feel included in a game abt being killed and killing ppl, most ppl dont care, i dont play Myers pretending like I want to stab massacre my whole city, it's literally a game, that, is plauged with bugs that need to be fixed
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I see no problem with this mentality as long as you have the same energy for the numerous straight characters we have.
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No, I am saying the bugs are atrocious and need to be top priority
Okay. Your response confused me because I asked if you'd have reacted the same regardless of the lore, and you said "No".
thats literally the only context other than cant wait for ppl to whine that they were tunneled for this reason now, though-
ah, there it is
1) He was never confirmed to be straight, gay men have had straight relationships in the past and it's actually common. He isn't "suddenly rainbow".
2) Refer to the sign
3) It takes nothing away from the gameplay experience and only humanises the characters further. If one doesn't care about it then they would, of course, remain silent and continue to not care- however for some reason everyone that's said they don't care seem to manage to find objections to the inclusion, leading to the conclusion they do actually care.
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My objection is it's only pandering, and of little importance, the game is losing it's base badly and theyre caught up giving characters identities, and it shows in these forums, one of the top threads on here rn complaining abt the ongoing issues, BHVR themself have just been given an excellent opportunity to talk their base abt their issues yet theyre here responding to this thread and ignoring that one
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It's always either, "I don't care BUT" or "Quit shoving politics into everything."
People were going too be bent out of shape regardless of if the first LGBTQ+ character was David or a new character. They will always deflect their true feelings by saying BHVR should focus on fixing the bugs instead of releasing new lore and cosmetics, like we would ever truly believe them. Sure, the bugs suck but I for one expect them in ever patch and update.
I'm beyond happy David is gay and I'm super excited for more to come.
Also, love the meme! It's one of my favorites.
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I have no strong opinion on them making David gay nor do I have any preconceptions about it. Im simply looking at it from my own perspective.
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I showed my bf the news and his reaction was "Next should be Dwight" lmao but fr David being confirmed gay and having good lore to go with it gives me the warm fuzzy feelings ✨ I'm really happy with this underneath the jaded screaming at people that aren't
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Probably because they decided to make it some great big spectacle. "LOOK OVER HERE WE HAVE A GAY CHARACTER LOOK THIS CHARACTERS GAY WOW LOOK HES GAY ISNT THAT COOL!" Esp them picking David it feels like a huge PR stunt. I mean it was assumed they'd make it this way when they made a huge deal about adding an LGBT character in the future but now its just the same thing. Feels more like a zoo who got a new animal than them wanting to make a character gay naturally
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Well said
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