Otzdarva, Legion And The Inevitable Nerf - Your Thoughts?
Just watched his new video regarding Legion - TL:DR, he's trying to help people understand how to play against Legion so that they don't get the 'to the ground!' treatment Wraith did, after the short but glorious period where Wraith was actually a mid tier killer.
After playing and playing against Legion a bit recently...yup. I'm worried too. It's one thing adding in a powerful new killer (Artist), but when people are so massively accustomed to riding roughshod over a low tier killer only to actually get skunked by them, the reaction is very much 'nerf plz'.
It would definitely be annoying to see them nerfed, particularly with the 'wait a few months' statement regarding helping Onryo.
What are your thoughts? Is the new Legion just too oppressive, or should BHVR at least let the dust settle to avoid another Wraith level 'down one whole tier' level nerf?
Comments
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I look forward to the rushed, panic nerf in the next patch. No response on any thread asking why it happened so soon, but they will pop into any Sadako threads to say that she just needs to 'settle' a few more months.
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Too strong for how easy they are to play imo. And some of the addons are just dumb and remove all counterplay. Also I don't like being so heavily punished for my team's mistakes.
I much prefer a killer like Ghostface where if I get exposed its my own fault and not because Joe-Schmoe got stabbed 40m away and now the legion knows my position.
Also the gameplay is such a slog. Mend, mend, mend, can't save because I'm injured, thanatophobia so im holding M1 for an eternity no matter what, etc etc.
Avoiding survivor until they get nerfed or the craze dies down
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I seriously doubt he'll be nerfed; he's still fairly week and relies on survivors playing horribly to do well. I'd even bet he's going to get some slight buffs.
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Thing is - yes, most people would rather face Ghostface now than Legion, because Ghostface is much easier to beat, as his 'buffs' came out at a wash. Legion requires a bit of foresight.
It's the same as people preferring to face Pig as opposed to Nurse, or Sadako as opposed to Spirit.
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It's easier when there are four survivors off hook. Once one is hooked it gets tougher.
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I think a couple of the addons were misguided, in particular the one that refills your power after breaking a pallet
Undropped pallets are legions biggest weakness because they can knock him out of his power and forcing them to wait for it to come back.
Maybe also adding some kind of visual or sound que that Legion's frenzy hit is the downing one might go a long way? It doesn't change his actual strength but it provides survivors that 'oh crap' que so they can make some kind of play
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In a PvP title, your enemies are supposed to stymie you.
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It has nothing to do with the power level of the killer. It has to do with what my experience as survivor is going to be. I already hold M1 enough as it is, having to hold M1 even more due to a borderline uncounterable hit is a snoozefest. Takes no skill either. I think I would rather get camped by a Bubba because at least running away from a chainsaw will be exciting.
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I would be very disappointed if they nerf legion.
But we can't stop it if they do decide to do it. We can enjoy going against another nurse or blight at least.
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I have yet to have a single issue against or as Legion.
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I don't think the new julie's mixtape is really a healthy addon since it means you can just never respect pallets and immediately start frenzy again.
But besides that he seems fine and I hope he isn't nerfed.
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I find even the concept that people think they could get nerfed just silly. Legion is still garbage tier, in what world are we thinking of nerfing that. They still need significant buffs.
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Legion will get nerfed because they are "unfun"
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Does anyone actually think Legion is strong now? Yeah, they've got a great information game, but the killer knowing where you are is only half the battle. Or a quarter of the battle. Legion's power won't help them get downs unless the survivors are horribly positioned. "Don't group up against" Legion is nothing new, it's just a little more strictly enforced nowadays.
The rework essentially consisted of a really good addon pass, a few QoL buffs, and one powerful gimmick that will generally not see the light of day against smart survivors. And really awesome music. Beneath that, they're still the Legion. Annoying to play against, but not good.
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We know how Wraith was, we're talking about Le---Oh wait.
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With the MMR the way it is, they are more than good. Your typical solo Q potato's get bodied by Wraith, let alone being permanently exposed by legion.
I would not touch survivor with a 10 foot pole right now. I will deal with the 4 stacks as killer instead of solo Q vs. legion.
Just another ill fated decision by BHVR on the way back to like 20k players on steamcharts.
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I just... What? They made it so he moves slightly faster after hitting a survivor in feral frenzy, removed the power gauge penalty when hitting with a basic attack, and changes his addons.
He is exactly the same as before, just slightly less garbage.
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My survivor MMR is on the low side (solo queue, I get obvious babies as teammates fairly often, and the killers, while not rock bottom, make regular mistakes) and I generally find teams do better against Legion than Wraith. New players are so bad at swiveling their camera around and it's just an endless string of the Wraith getting free hits when they're inevitably caught off guard. Legion games are just sort of whatever, excepting the 5-8 minutes you tack on for mending simulator. They don't have any especial power in chase. As long as you have any idea how to loop, you understand that vaulting and predropping don't matter until after they're out of Frenzy, and you know that running away is a good idea when the killer starts running towards you, you won't do too badly.
When it comes to getting screwed over by your teammates, Bubba, Plague, and Myers are far worse things to face in solo queue. Legion knowing where you are isn't gonna doom you unless they stabbed all three of your teammates and you were anywhere near the teammate pile. The only case this isn't at least partially your fault is if the third teammate starts running towards/after you while the Legion is on them, in which case yeah, screw the team. But that's not really any different from Myers ganking you because Meg fed him within the first 30 seconds of the game. It's DBD. We all know our teammates are the real killers.
Also, we really shouldn't be balancing killers based on how people who don't know how to play the game yet play against them... that's how you get "Pig OP, Nurse weak" logic.
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This post is a master class in saying "I want to play against a bot" without saying "I want to play against a bot"
- "too strong for how easy they are to play" - Right, because a killer with no anti-loop, a power that can be completely turned off by a survivor stunning them, dodging hits, or just running away is just TOO EASY.
- "I don't like being so heavily punished for my team's mistakes" - Because this is a single player game, where every part of the game depends on you and you alone. Why should one person get punished just because their team is falling apart in this Team-Based Game?
- "if I get exposed, it's my own fault" - This game already puts WAY too many killer powers in the hands of the survivors. You understand you're playing against a person, right? That their input into the game needs to, on some level, supersede your input? This isn't Dark Souls, where any time you get hit, it's because you failed to do something. That's not how multiplayer games work.
- "mend mend mend" - I mean, heaven forbid any aspect of this game stop you from sitting on a generator with your toggled M1 button engaged for the duration of the match. A killer power that requires a whole 12 seconds of doing something other than gens? What a slog!
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The mere fact Otz had to make this video is very telling that something is horribly wrong with Legion. The extreme majority is not able to play against him as he breaks the game.
Who honestly thought that pressing M2 for guaranteed wins is a good idea and fair for the other side?
BHVR hasn't ever learned from their mistakes.
Don't worry, I'm for certain survivors will be nerfed again before fixing Legion.
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No, that's what's called a 'Kafkatrap'.
The Legion are 'B' tier, at best.
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How about I want to play against a killer that doesn't both get my location and injure me completely for free without counterplay? Hah.
There's so many stronger killers than legion that I have no problems with at all. But the fact any boosted animal can pick up legion and get hits for free is such horrid gameplay design. Especially in a game that can give you no good pallets sometimes.
Awful, awful character design. And the fact the mending is atrocious too doesn't help. I will take Nurse or Blight over him any day, at least those have counterplay to the power. Legion is why I won't play play solo Q anymore. It's SWF or killer, forget it.
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I've been beating legions in solo queue all day, including ones with spicy DMS/pain res combos. Someone want to let oracle know they've got a potential new member for the team?
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Weak doesn't mean anything. It rides on how often they are played and how annoying they are played.
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Against a perfect 4 man?
In a match of 5 average players, the Legion always wins. That's not really fair. Legion is way too effective for how easy he is to play.
No counterplay to his speed, no counterplay to his instinct. Everyone is always injured because of "no counterplay"
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I've been playing survivor for...maybe 60 hours now.
I've faced 5 Legions since the buff. I beat 3 of them and lost twice.
This strikes me as a 'you' problem - if I can handle them as a terrible survivor, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to.
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this ain't it
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Legion is literally fine. Just 99 the mend if they're chaining hits fast so that if they want to get that down they wont get the killer instinct on you.
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In the games I have played against Legion the past couple days, the "split up" counterplay has worked as it always has. They seem marginally stronger, and got a few more hits than I expected, but seemed fundamentally the same. But still not particularly good.
Maybe I have just gone up against the wrong ones.
I really hope they don't nerf them.
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I don’t think Legion is OP but having to mend 6-7 times in a match is really boring. They hit you and then just run off so no fun chase either. Just more holding M1
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That's the thing.
If people huddle together right from the start, Legion can reap through them.
If people split up (like...they should be doing anyway), Legion is pretty simple and you can loop them almost forever unless you're in a huge deadzone.
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For me it's not about how strong the killer is, I couldn't care less about that. But playing against legion makes me wanna eat glass. It's all run, mend, run, mend. It's such stale gameplay and tbh if I was playing the legion I wouldn't think that it's fun gameplay unless I was trolling. I would much rather face ANY other killer than legion tbh.
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I think (as primarily a survivor with a few dips in Killer) that Legion is really fun now, while being a gateway to teach survivors better habits. Then again, a Blight player was super bitter that I learned from Legion to start camping pallets to try to knock them out of their power (and kept setting Blast Mine in his face) but hey.
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I'd rather face a Legion than a basement Bubba, a Trickster, Twins (holy crap am I seeing a lot of this killer, and they always hard slug at 5 gens), Knockout killers, AFK Popper Pig, Nurse, Blight and Huntress.
At least Legion isn't going to facecamp.
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Yeah, Legion chews through new players, because they tend to herd together. As you advance more and realize immediately splitting up is almost always the proper play, Legion becomes less and less of a threat. At high level, they're useless. That's why these buffs don't really fix what makes Legion weak.
With these buffs you might get one more hit than you usually would, but good teams will almost always shut Legion down.
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funnily enough. I've only been able to play against one single Legion so far and he was so bad that he didnt even use Frenzy at all.
And i've played a few Hours of Legion and i think they're perfect. In any way Possible perfect. If they nerf them now, im probably gonna uninstall DbD for good. The changes announcement was actually the thing tat got me back into the Game in the first place.
Playing today was i think the most fun i ever had in DbD as a Killer. I played for 4 Hours straight and only stopped because i reached the Bloodpoint cap and wanted to spend my Points. And i stopped playing after that cause i wanted to stopp on a good Note :D
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I stopped a game earlier and let them farm because I was so bored making people mend just to try to knock someone down after a fifth hit. If it's boring for me as the killer I can only imagine how bad it is for the other side.
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Legion doesn't need any nerfs or buffs...
They need more than that : a complete true REWORK
as long as feral frenzy is Legion's power they're always gonna stay in the trash tier list BHVR still doesn't realise how bad they messed up with Legion's power and design.
Legion as a whole is just a boring killer to play or to go against don't want to be rude but how can you have fun when you know you're gonna get a free injure and you did nothing to deserve it just m2 and the survivor you're going to hit can't do anything about it.
there are no mindgames,no nothing you just get injured and there was nothing you could do here.
Most killers in the game have to make a skillful play/read to get a hit/down but it's not the case of the Legion,even Nurse the best killer in the game has to make a good read if she wants to injure a survivor.
Legion just has a braindead power "Look I use my M2 and get survivors injured for free wow what a fun and interactive power for both sides!"
the problem with Legion is not that they're hard to play against its just that Legion's power is so badly designed and boring for both sides...
Once again the Legion needs a full REWORK to make his power fun and interactive for BOTH sides.
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Sadly, it's never, ever going to happen. BHVR has not yet given any killer that level of rework in the history of the game, and likely never will.
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Well they did, one time
Freddy.
A rework that in hindsight made him strong but boring. (Subjectively)
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I don't find playing as them boring at all, I'd imagine a lot of others agree considering the amount I've been seeing. Even before the buffs they've always been a relatively popular killer even despite all the weird punishments for using your power built in, so there's clearly some appeal with the playstyle.
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There is no way Legion stays this way, yesterday I was on Coal Tower and it was literally impossible for us to stop them from stabbing us 4 times, totally busted in small maps.
My guess is the adding speed increase or the base speed are going to get nerfed.
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OMFG
THEY ARE REALLY COMPLAINING ABOUT A B TIER KILLER LMAOOOOO
If you know you are going against a Legion just spread out, he cannot chain 5 hits(with the exception that Never Sleep Pills exists) if you do that.
Dead Hard also counters his 5th hit.
And saying that he should be nerfed cuz Thanatophobia is annoying and boring why not Plague also?
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fact Ghostface so easy to get out of his power too.
out of both killers updates I think Legion got out of it ok.
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And seeing that ppl would rather face another killer than legion is just HILARIOUS
Basement Bubba
Facecamping Bubba (Deadlock+Corrupt Interventioon+DMS+PR)
AFK Pig
Knockout Nurse
Sweaty af Nurse (Agitation+Startstruck+Infectious Fright+Corrupt Intervention+Omegablink addons)
Sweaty af Blight (Ruin+Undying+Pop+Lethal Pursuer +Alch.Ring+C33)
Slugging Twins
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I'll add TSP Myers, facecamping infinite T3 Myers and honestly a facecamping Ghostface to the list too.
Also - urgh, Knockout Nurses. I'm not sure which streamer popularized that abomination of a build, but I'm seeing it a fair bit now and I want to sneak into their house and litter their floor with Legos.
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With that chase music I'd DC against GF.
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I don't mind it.
The only chase music I cannot stand is Trickster's.
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I'm not reading the entire thread. Stop overreacting. Content creators need clickbait. Legion barely moved up the tier list. Mostly because Ghostface was actually nerfed.
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He's still a C tier killer.
Funnily enough, on the day of his patch, I played a couple of matches against him, before the patch actually dropped and my teammates went down to his power and played terrible against him. Almost like they wanted to make him look OP.
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