lgbtism either can't be illness or phobic
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Again, being a woman is not. The womens movement that does push for legislation is.
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Sorry for that. Again, i am not a native speaker and didnt know it might have a bad taste.
I just dont understand how that movement is not political.
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thats just your interpretation of their statement (which you said sounded like an excuse?)
you really contradict yourself all the time. Have you ever complained about a lore expansion like this before or is this only not acceptable if it’s about LGBTQ+?
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I don't look at the lore so I wouldn't know. If I did view the lore and read something I could criticize I'd tell you.
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then why criticize this part of the lore now, when you have no knowledge about anything that’s been written about the characters before?
sorry, but tome story’s pretty much always add new traits, relationships, facts etc about the character, that’s how they are telling their story’s and fleshing out their characters.
they never revealed David to be straight before, there isn’t any retconning happening here yet you have a problem with him being revealed as gay now?
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All good buddy wasn't meant to attack you in the first place it was more to suffocate that term directly because sooner or later some bigots will come up with it you now
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Representation can't always be good bestie, David being gay felt forced/random. I had the same reaction when they said that nurse & wraith had a thing together. :)
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I only know because I saw it on the dead by daylight subreddit as I was going to the hunt showdown subreddit. I then proceeded to go into the rabbit hole into the forums after I read some over there, Otherwise there hadn't been a lot of lore stuff pop up.
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So you just read David is now gay without any context or knowledge about lore at all? And then you think it’s appropriate to criticize this instead of informing yourself and then forming and opinion and critique?
Have you read the tome lore and the statement from Peanits? It doesn’t feel random at all and ‚forced‘ is such a vague statement that can be used against literal any lore addition that you don’t like
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For people who say "I don't care about the LGBTQ representation in this game" why does it bother you so damn much?
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Not in a video game it isn't.
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How is it not? By adding LGBT characters to media you're normalizing being LGBT, which is what should happen, because it is normal and shouldn't be treated differently.
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Yes in a video game it is.
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No it isn't. :)
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Your personal opinion is irrelevant here, since for many people it is and especially for the devs of Dead by Daylight it is as they have often stated.
it may be not important for you (but it sure feels like it is important for you) - but that doesn’t matter at all :)
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Why can't things like this just happen without all the official statements and confirmations and stuff? That doesn't look like normalizing to me. I've always felt its best to leave things like this up to the individual because in the end people are going to get pissed either way when something is made canon in a fictional story that people feel different about.
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Because many, many video games already do not leave it up to the individual and have no problem confirming orientation, either intentionally or otherwise. To say that it shouldn't be the case in video games is like saying that it shouldn't be the case in any other form of storytelling or worldbuilding either.
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Why only voice your opinion when it’s related to LGBTQ+ topics though?
have you been against the tome story of Legion? And if so, why come out and be so against these kind of addition now when it’s about someone being gay and not before? 10 rifts with at least 2 characters getting plenty of lore added
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That's not what you said though. You claimed LGBT people don't need representation in video games, you did not say you were against the announcement.
A lot of LGBT people also found the announcement cringy, including myself, doesn't mean the representation isn't good.
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Because I can. Are you assuming more about me yet? :)
Also I hate Legion. Why would I care about his tome or lore?
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there is not much to assume. It’s pretty obvious what is going on :)
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Very obvious but it's katemain I knew if she had to say something to this topic it would be like this
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🤣 Thats really going to set the tone for your replies to me on everything else I talk about here. Well what is "obvious" is you concluding something about me that is not true based on my opinion about something that you think I shouldn't be giving because I haven't mentioned my opinion about everything else lore related. It certainly can't be about people having a problem with it because of HOW it was done. Noo that can't be it.
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I think there is way more assuming going on from your side about me and what I assume.
i already told you what I assumed of you and that is stuff that you have explicitly confirmed in your comments. Everything else i tried to ask you and you were not giving an answer so I will assume could be this or that way and that’s it.
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So you haven't read any of the lore, and actually have no idea how it's written, because you didn't care... Right up until someone was confirmed as gay.
Now you still haven't actually read anything, but you're clearly upset by it. Do you really think it's a mystery to people what changed? Because it isn't, and it's really not a good look. Though I do appreciate the honesty of admitting that until it involved a man being gay, you didn't care at all.
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No BHVR just caught the 'Twitter' illness
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Can you elaborate further? I don’t know what a Twitter illness is..
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Do you think I'm a homophobe for not having the same care about legion lore as I do about David King's sexuality being revealed as gay after all these years? Yes or no will do.
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Big company trying to go 'woke'
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No. I think it is possible you are a homophobe because you are against LGBTQ+ representation in media. Could or could not be, it’s definitely a harmful take.
As to David (and Legion) you have finally explained why you are focusing on David while ignoring other lore - which is something I have asked for often and you just answered in the end. Which is okay and just your opinion, though you gotta agree that David is a fan favourite of many others as well and many of those are happy or indifferent to this reveal.
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Big? Arguable.
trying to go ‚woke‘? The employees that are writing and presenting the stuff are genuinely standing behind inclusion and good representation. It’s something they care about. Is that ‚woke‘?
also, what’s the term for people against any kind of LGBTQ+ representation that are hiding behind ‚arguments‘ like calling companies woke?
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It has been my experience that anyone who uses "woke" to mean any liberal, progressive, or inclusive decision a group makes. (As opposed to the actual traditional meaning of woke since the 20s, which is aware of the threats facing you as a minority in society) is someone who is not honestly looking for debate, as much as just spoiling for an argument.
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Its more of a hot topic than legion lore. I'm against all representation in video games when things are done for that sole purpose. I think video game developers should develop video games and the players can feel how they want about it, including if they feel represented or not. I feel like many game developers feel obligated to do this these days because of real life social influences and outcries. I've been playing video games my whole life. There was a time where no one cared about this stuff in video games and yet everyone played them and loved what they loved. What is wrong with that being the norm again? We don't need to make a narrative about representation in video games. People can identify with what they like in the games they play and that is perfectly fine. We shouldn't be worried about if all the representation check boxes have been filled in video games. Its really a non issue that people have made into an issue.
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Yes you are misreading stuff.
They didn’t turn anyone suddenly gay. David King was revealed to be gay and this something his new tome story is about.
he was never confirmed straight by the way. He had an ex girlfriend mentioned but that has nothing to do with his sexuality, many gay men have had girlfriends in their lives. And it’s something mentioned and explained in the story.
also, David is still just as normal as before. Being gay is not abnormal.
Post edited by Rizzo on5 -
You are assuming everyone played them and loved what they loved. But that’s not true. You are asking for explicit exclusion of anything LGBTQ+ related while heterosexuality would still be featured everywhere. But (good) representation in any kind of media helps normalization in society. Otherwise people will continue to think LGBTQ+ people are abnormal and only behaving in stereotypes and will also continue to exclude them and oppress them.
there is no actual harm happening with inclusion either. You can still imagine that David King is straight and you can even explain it with the multiverse which is pretty much part of canon lore in DbD. But just the acknowledgment of gay people existing is helping others in realizing: gay people are as normal as straight people. They have different characteristics etc.
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Ah yes, the old "nobody ever cared before" which really just means you weren't paying attention. Followed by "can't we just go back to not talking about it?"
I highly doubt you were playing games back in 1983, when Edward Said was publishing research on the prevalence (even then) of white male heroes, while every other race was reserved for the villain.
Of course, you are correct that people didn't bring up sexuality then, probably because it was still considered "self defense" to murder another man if you thought he was flirting with you, and the president was on television saying that AIDS didn't matter because it was just killing "the gays".
Weirdly enough, as people got more used to the idea that gay people didn't deserve death just for existing, the conversation that's been going on since at least '83 expanded to include their feelings as well.
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I'm not asking for exclusion of anything. I'm saying creators create what they want but don't wave a big "representation matters" flag over your work as the driving motivation for making the things you make and most certainly do not ever feel obligated to do it. If someone wants to make a game with gay characters in it then go for it. The customers can decide if they want to keep consuming that content. Lets treat straight and gay characters all the same without making a big deal about either one when we do. Thats normalization. If the goal is to sway the minds of everyone in the world to see both as normal then no amount of representation is ever going to change that. I honestly believe if people just stopped doing this for representation sake there would be far less arguing over it.
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It seems like you don't understand why representation matters. I would suggest you start with the linked article, it's a lot lighter reading than a research paper on the subject, though I've links to those if you would like
https://thestateofsie.com/edward-schiappa-will-grace-contact-hypothesis-psychological-theory/#:~:text=Will%20%26%20Grace%20can%20effect%20a%20change%20in%20perception&text=In%20Will%20%26%20Grace%2C%20viewers%20%E2%80%9C,grounded%20in%20psychosocial%20empirical%20evidence.
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Sure that would be ideal. But then… the devs kinda had to wave this flag since they have been explicitly excluding anything LGBTQ+ related and were treating heterosexuality different and now they are showing they have bettered themselves and they also said they see themselves as an inclusive company and they care about representation. so what’s wrong about that?
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Absolutely
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I use the word "woke".
I'm gay. I was surprised they ret-conned David, but now that I see his new cosmetic, I'm totally on board (I'm shallow that way) and currently leveling him lol. In the end, I'm actually glad they chose him because he doesn't look like a mish-mash of gay stereotypes.
I think of the term "woke" not as people who are liberal and progressive (which is usually good). It refers to extreme neo-liberalism over classic liberalism.
In this context, it would be accusing everyone who isn't ecstatic about this change as carte blanche hating gay people when in fact, they probably don't. I've seen people who would have had no problem with a new character being gay, just didn't like changing an existing one, yet they are still accused of homophobia which is not cool. Not everyone with criticism (so long as it is non-destructive) is auto-homophobic.
"Woke" refers to the type of people who claim to be "right side of history" when they have a tendency to weaponize the progressive stack against those they believe to be lower on it than they are. Just muh opinion.
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I think you may enjoy reading this
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/culture/21437879/stay-woke-wokeness-history-origin-evolution-controversy
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Yeah but it's VOX lmao.
I'll give it a go, but Vox is the most neo-liberal media out there. Do you have something less terribly biased? https://www.influencewatch.org/for-profit/vox/
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How about this.
First, read it. Then if you feel that somehow the reporting of historical usage of a term has been tainted by bias by them, we'll go from there. I didn't choose that article because of the website. I picked it because it directly links to the sources it is using, so you can research it yourself if you feel some part is incorrect.
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David revealed as being gay is not a ret-conn and is not changing the character.
that is an objective fact.
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No it's not an "objective fact".
He was a character that was never even implied to be gay, and the developers themselves looked at the list of existing survivors (as Peanits said in a post) and decided David was the one they could reasonably include. Again, I'm totally on board, so I'm not going to argue about it. Not everyone is going to agree with absolutely everything 100% of the time. Doesn't make them them bad people.
Anyways, god I'm so over this. Have a good day.
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It was also never confirmed that he wasn’t gay, was it?
you do realize how writing new lore for an existing character works, right? There have been many tome story’s all adding new stuff to existing character, some even ret-conning things from the initial backstory. But it seems like all of that is okay but as soon as a character whose sexual orientation wasn’t confirmed gets confirmed to be not straight it’s somehow ret-conning and bad?
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I still don't care.
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At least you have humour I guess.
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And your continued posts here prove that, lol
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