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About David sexuality
Comments
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I dont have any issue behaviour can do whatevet they wish i just stated a different idea to approach lgtbi+ issue plus adding more diversity to lore but if they prefer that way their game not mine
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ok, but then why did you post this forum in the first place if you're ok with it. tome tier 2 hasn't unlocked yet but so far in Davids's story, I'm seeing themes of love and affair, so I'm assuming they did it to be a part of the tome lore, it's not just an "oh yeah this character is gay btw" jk rowling style, it means something to the character. I don't think they should just willy-nilly say this character is gay and this character is gay, but it was just 1 character and it pertains to him. I don't think having separate sexualities between realms is relevant or makes sense
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im not gonna spoil but youre in for a treat with this tome
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huh??? wait is there a way to read the tome lore early?????
devious person don't tempt me
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Not without looking into leaked content.
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Its deeply amusing to me how this little thing has so many homophobes all tore up and outing their selves. How fragile they are that David being gay is a deal breaker for using him as a character for some reason or not being able to like him as much.
As a gay guy who has loved video games his whole life where constantly, constantly, having to play as a straight guy is just the norm and has never kept him from liking or enjoying the game. Never once have I thought "Well, I really like Uncharted, but I just can't with Nate and Elena because they're a straight couple."
Having to port over my Shepard's decisions from ME1 to ME2 to ME3 where I still like the cast even though I didn't get an option for a same sex romance until 3. To say nothing of all of the games I've played where that's just not in the cards or if it is, it's usually for female characters.
This hilarious double standard where gay gamers just get to deal with playing games with characters that don't represent them as the norm but then god forbid a character comes out in his lore and backstory and suddenly these straight snowflakes can't clutch their pearls fast enough and cry about what's being taken from them.
Give me a break.
Grow up.
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there is but im not allowed to share
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good for you that you get to see it all now we all have to wait that not fair.
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Honestly, it shouldn‘t be hard to find. PixelBush often makes videos on the tomes before the full thing has even released properly, and he’s not a Fog Whisperer, as far as I know.
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It's so funny how a simple "coming out of a character" can cause so much drama in this comunity
I mean, what does it change in the actual gameplay? Nothing, who does it offend? No one.
Why are we so into this and we can't move on? What's happening?
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id absolutely love to share and send it but the anniversary stream is confirmed for the 17th and i need to not be banned before then
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Just goes to show how far minority acceptance still has to go.
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may looking into that.
lol ok I do understand that.
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I'll never get this.
It's so annoying, they all asume everyone is straight and if the devs change that at some point, they all get offended by it, like they comit a crime or something. It's ridiculous, 30 characters in the game, they made one gay and you see tweets about the devs wanting to make some kind of gay dictatorship.
Now would you imagine the same kind of drama and comotion happening if they released a lore where Jake Park married to a woman and had 3 kids? No one would even care. Now David kiss a guy and everyone is crying about it. LOL
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So from what I read (which is kinda hard to follow) you want them to not say that he is gay because it is too... "definitive"?
I am not seeing how leaving a character's specific sexuality out by not naming it can be more inclusive when they have already said they plan on adding more characters which are also representative of the LGBTQAI+ community.
Listen, at this point they could have made one of the females a lesbian, and I, being a gay dude would have still been thrilled that they are doing this in support of my community. It has nothing to do with which letters in the LGBTQAI+ they are going to pick, it has to do the messaging of inclusivity and support.
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But you still have Twitter to share that ( ꈍᴗꈍ)
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didnt hear it from me but it may or may not also be available on the unofficial dbd wiki
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Name checks out.
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Nothing wrong with what your saying Unknown Killer. I'm pretty sure I get what you mean.
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They had it right with their original position. Letting the players create their own narratives and identify with the characters they most relate to is always the best approach. I can never identify with David King again. :(
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The issue with me is laziness. As a writer I think it's lazy to just slap LGBTQ on a character because there's lots of fan art. I don't care for sexuality to be noted, but if it needed to be, why didn't the devs make a new character? The anniversary character could've been lgbtq with their own chapter, lots of love. The next tome could've been their tome. It seems more like they're embracing fanships than genuinely creating something. A lazy afterthought to virtue signal while they lie about mmr on a dev stream. I love this game but I hope the relationship with the community gets better.
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Yes lets lock the first lgbt+ character behind a paywall, that definitely doesn't scream "pandering for profit".
Imagine spending 2 years researching, discussing with communities about the best way to implement lore, then you get called lazy.
The only thing lazy here is the argument you only put 2 seconds of thought into.
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Just slapping it on a new character would actually be way more lazy than creating a fitting story like they did for David. Also they would get criticized for tokenism and doing it for the money and the surv would be said to have their personality completely revolving around their sexuality no matter what else was mentioned in their background story.
You still can identify with him. You choose not to because you are focusing on his sexuality while there were always traits and stuff in his lore that made him a distinct character from you. Or have you been abandoned by your rich family, are as muscular as him and you often get drunk in bars and get into fights?
also the very first DLC was already not in line with their original position.
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Maybe you're right. Honestly, I think most people who play DBD will probably never know about his sexuality anyway. Heck if I had never saw the twitter post about it I wouldn't either. I'd still be playing shirtless David saving all the ladies and leaving Dwight on the hook. Now that I think about it, that actually sounds more fun to do now than ever. 😂
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Many might be disliking the change about David due to the Emotional Attachment to the Character...
Again, feel of Attachment, feel of being Identified as or with.
I'm sure there are more subjects that describe what i refeer aside of Emotional Attachment, Parasocial relationships might be a fitting other.
I was debating with @Mooks on other topic and something interesting came up, that this argument doesn't appear outside LGBT+ related topics.
And i see it has been bringed here one more time.
Google finds near 9 million results (in my language) about just Emotional Attachment to Characters; ranging from Cinema, TV Shows, Literature, Roleplay settings and obviously games.
I told it beforehand, the number of times a subject is brought or precieved to be brought, which seems there is a problem here, is not related to it's validity. As it might be lack of knowledge or education.
If you search for any of the mentioned subjects and still don't find something relatable outside LGBT+ topics within games, i bring you a concise example, character model reworks. Has this happened in DBD?
That also breaks Attachment.
The dilemma that comes in is how to determine the above subjects to be less valuable or worse than creating a new character alltogether.
That to feel Identified by a Character, sexuality is involved is not a choice.
Is not that players choose how the feel is triggered by... is that there are factors on the character that trigger the feel.
Post edited by CORENdot on2 -
I was simply talking about Dead by Daylight though. Not about any other media or even other video games.
DbDs approach of story telling since the first tome has always been like this: they are adding onto the initial lore and there have been even new (heterosexual) relationships added to characters. It’s just very suspicious that there has never been real complaints like this until this very moment with David revealed to be gay.
and just to be clear: we are not talking about the reveal on twitter. If you like that or not and for whatever reason is completely valid and in most cases understandable. But this is about the fact that while it’s never been stated before now David is confirmed to be gay in the new tome story. And while you personally don’t like it because your head canon told you something different about David, which is okay, but that’s not a good enough reason to not reveal this fact about David.
in this case there was no direct change of the character, since the announcement two years ago it was always known that any character might get their canon sexual orientation/identification revealed, and as long as it doesn’t contradict the existing lore and the writers/creators stand behind it and want to tell this story, it’s not fair to demand them to stop with their approach - especially if it’s only ever been a problem with anything LGBTQ+ related.
i still haven’t seen you or others complain as much about Legions tome story - and there actual retconning has taken place to some degree.
edit: if you actually have a problem with their story telling, adding lore to the characters through tomes after the initial release - then maybe create such a thread in Feedback & Suggestions and give some examples without only focusing on LGBTQ+ topics! That way your feedback would feel way more genuine because these threads are not about what you are complaining about
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Being fair, they spent 2 years to use an already existing character.
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Considering how it turned out, that’s 2 years well spent.
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A popular opinion.
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Many arguments have been already answered by now, will try to be additive.
David might have been a more common Identification stereotype for the vocal playerbase, players also might only feel Identified by one character at all, etc...
The statement that there are no complains aside of LGBT+ topics was already covered, did you missed it?
Character model reworks. Now if you expect me to ask every player that might have expressed dislikeness if it was refeering to breaking sense of Identity, it's definetly not going to happen. Yet it is hard to believe noone might felt it when the internet has plenty of cases describing the subjects, right?
It just take some time to read about them.
I fail to see how DBD forum is a more reliable source for objectiveness than whole internet either.
Be patient tho, this subjects will slowly but surely come more, education takes time.
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Education and time (and well implemented representation) will lead to more acceptance of similar reveals such as David’s.
as to character models: good point but also… that’s related to something always on the screen and not some background lore text. And again, I am talking about you right now. You haven’t complained before here and you are still active on threads about David’s reveal instead of creating your own thread where you can clarify this is not about LGBTQ+ representation but about tome story’s lore expansions.
and also, I am aware the forums are not representative of the whole playerbase, but they are still one of the most direct channels to reach the devs.
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For someone that cares so little about the lore you're still going on about it
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I disagree completely. Making a new character for DBD's first would be lazy and reductive. They'd be brushed off as the token gay character, and "being gay" would probably be all that the character was about. As a gay guy I am very tired of characters whose entire persona is about the fact that they are gay. For DBD's first one I think its great that they had David come out as it where in his backstory because there was already so much else to David he's just also gay.
Going forward from here I'm sure there will be more LGBT+ characters and I'll welcome them, but I'm glad the first one wasn't just a character designed from the ground up just to be gay.
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Why not?
Should I not be able to identify with any straight character or protagonists in media? Or should I just be able to because that's "normal"? I'm happy whenever I see a gay couple in something, but the lack of them doesn't make me go "ew I can't with these straights, blegh".
This is why I didn't think making a new character just to be gay would be the better choice, because of reductive homophobes that think being gay is the whole of a persons character and overrides all else.
Post edited by Rizzo on4 -
It's also far more relatable and comparable to the reality of most LGBT+ individuals necessary coming out journey.
Nobody comes out of the womb flaming, they have to discover their sexuality later in life.
In fact it's usually those like David, matcho, non-camp, etc. that end up coming out later in life.
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What is to clarify at this point... nothing i said implies me being against LGBT+ representation, does it?
But let's assume that my course of action implies it.
What is the course of action should i have went for you to not feel i'm against LGBT+ representation?
Do i have to met some prerequisites before voicing my opinion on LGBT+ related topics?
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Stunts like this can only breed resentment. We've seen it in media before.
Should have been a new character
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Whilst we appreciate the feedback regarding a new character...we have explained why we didn't go this route...the screenshot from Peanits is above.
If we'd had a new character, it would have been seen as "the token gay character" which I really do not think would have been the right way to go - neither did GaymerX who we worked with and who are pretty much experts in this field. It would have felt and looked forced, like we only put that character in there to be gay. We wanted the representation to be completely natural - which it is. It's a natural progression of David's character as explained in his Lore, it's part of who he is.
There might very well be new characters in the future who identify as LGBTIAQ+ and I hope there will be, there might also be existing characters who identify also.
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Well, you obviously can voice your opinion and feedback the way you want. But I am also free to comment on it on a public forum.
and try to view it from my perspective: you have a new forum account and as of yet you only ever participated in topics that are related to the newly added LGBTQ+ representation. I think I already understood that you actually don’t have anything against LGBTQ+ representation and iirc you were also not that upset about that (unnecessary) twitter post about it.
you were talking mostly about character attachment which kinda gets destroyed due to lore additions like this. But there have been multiple of these kinds additions already and if you actually think this is an important topic that needs to be addressed then I have already advised you (and will gladly to it again) to create a new thread in the appropriate forum Section ‚Feedback & Suggestions‘ where you can describe your problem with this kind of approach of story telling and you can do it independently from anything LGBTQ+ relation.
MandyTalk is working as Lead Community Coordinator at BHVR and part of her job includes reading and forwarding feedback from the forums to the team. It would be easier for her to collect feedback on your topic if you (and others) would talk about this not in direct relation to the LGBTQ+ inclusion/representation as these topics always get pretty heated because believe it or not there are plenty of homophobes that are just using other arguments to hide their hatred.
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It’s not a stunt. It’s very much in line with their normal story telling. If it was a new character there would be just as much complaints. And they expected people to also complain with their chosen approach. But… you can’t always listen only to the haters - especially not if you are caring about the topic and you want to write your character the way you want.
David is gay. And he may or may not have been gay in the minds of the creators from the very beginning. We will never know for sure. (Even if they confirmed it was always the case people would just accuse them of lying - I actually think after re reading the lore that it shouldn’t have been such a surprise)
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Either way is lazy, even if one is likes better, just slapping on lgbtq on a character that fans fantasize about is lazy. It's difficult with tokenism because it's always about virtue signalling, even if someone likes it. I have characters that are lgbtq, and the focus isn't on their sexuality. So to see dbd with all their resources take that out is irksome. I don't mind if david king was gay, but it seems very forced. Even if the situation was relatable to some members, the writing and broadcasting seems forced vs being organic.
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I doubt it was from the beginning. From most game stuff they can barely look ahead. Only thing predictable that they did look ahead to I think was blight. The issue is most writers across industries use the lazy token stamp for lgbtq characters. People will always complain. Yes. But dbd has a track record of being a bit lazy and bandaid slap on with things in general. It's not out of the ordinary to say they're not doing something similar here. Throughout DBD's history, they slapped things on in an attempt to make people feel better.
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just slapping on lgbtq on a character that fans fantasize about is lazy
completely agreed! Thankfully that’s not what happened with David at all. And nothing feels forced with the story..
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I think most people are indifferent and just don't like things being slapped on. No matter what, dbd has painted themselves into a corner. This is tokenism no matter what. Hence, if they said they talked to gaymer about it it means they didn't plan on it from the beginning. Her comment means they made it up literally, and for fans of David king they can feel that. People can disagree without being bigots. I'd be annoyed if I retired and someone imagined one of my characters to be straight.
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Like fan fiction is fine, but if someone officially made my gay or nonbinary character something other than that, I'd be pissed. Why did they betray Ray or Rose like that? That's just a me thing though as a writer.
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It's not that i did on purpose either, previous posts where closed...
So you determined that a new account that comments into LGTB+ related topics is not appropiate due to... prejudices?
Feel free to bring what i said unappropiate or worth of redirection and the forum rules that support those statements.
Fortunately i'm secure enough to not act based on others' prejudices.
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But we don’t know what the creators imagined the characters sexuality initially. In the end, it’s BHVRs character though and doesn’t belong to one single writer or anything. And the storytelling in DbD always add new lore to their characters. If they explicitly didn’t want David to be gay but straight and it was integral to the character, it would have been part of the initial backstory. Also -shockingly- it’s a fictional character and literally everything is made up about David King.
use actual arguments or say you just don’t like it personally. But it’s not slapped on and you can’t say if the creator was for or against it at all.
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I just tried to help you express your feedback so it actually can get heard. You are trying to twist this into something else.
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Don't like things being "slapped on" So the way we write for character in things like there where little tidbits are drip feed every so often is to right out of the gate affirm their sexuality immediately and irrefutably? And if a character comes out in one of these story bits after having been in the game it has to be qualified as "slapped on" because you're not allowed to not absolutely declare their sexuality right from the get go.
This automatically creates a ridiculous double standard. Where an assumed heterosexuality is not "slapped on" but story bits revealing him to be gay are.
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I'm not a professional writer (though I enjoy it in my spare time) but I am avid reader and honestly I don't feel it feeling forced like, at all. The Twitter post was a bit much, and I honestly wish they'd waited until later to truly reveal it alongside the specified Tome level releasing, but as for the story itself it feels more than fine.
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