Another idea to remove facecamping
If the killer is in X radio of a hooked survivor (5 meters?) and another survivor is in Y radio (10 meters?)not working on a gen the timer stops and gens are blocked. This way all survs would know when a killer is facecamping and can do gens when the surv near the hooked surv decides to do gens also.
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This exact feature was tested many years ago. Survivors abused it severely so it was dropped.
You fix camping and tunneling by balancing the game properly. Camping and tunneling is a symptom of poor game balance, not the problem itself. Most the camping and tunneling is because killers feel backed into a corner with no other options since the devs refuse to balance for high mmr.
There will always be some killers who camp and tunnel just because they want to but that isn't the majority.
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I wouldn't mind this system as a killer, I have to pee sometimes you know? In all seriousness though, absolutely not. Imagine if the killer could just freeze the game by standing next to a hooked survivor.
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HE only freeze the game if both of you are near the hook
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Why would you block the gens...? Just have the killer's aura show up if they're face camping.
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Um... It is another idea, I will give you that. I am not particularly fond of it and feel it might actually be worse than live.
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theres already a perk for that
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Hit the nail on the head.
Why chase and lose when you can camp and clean up 3v1 in the endgame.
People are too bust being angry about camping to objectively look at why its so prevalent and what might be done game wise to change it that isn't just some angry exploitable punitive process.
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just a personal opinion, I think people that are going to be hyper-defensive on hooks will stay hyper defensive for regardless of how strong killers get. facecamping honestly is just abusing the bad balance of hooks and unhooking process.
normally there was no issue with it because the strategy wasn't viable. survivors could just ignore hooked survivor and do gen and power exit gate into man 3 escape. killers that were camping hooks were not exerting in any map pressure to prevent survivor objective from being complete. there was inherent trade-off for doing the activity, one of which was not rewarding.
A big part to why I like perk designs like sloppy butcher, pop goes weasel, thanotophobia, pain resonance and so on is that these perk presented healthy gameplay styles of promoting the killer chasing the 3 hook-death condition. Those perks required you hit the survivor or hook the survivor continuously to get value of the slowdown. I want include dead man switch but than there is Artist problem with it. Killers did not have automated perk slowdowns. With perks like Corrupt intervention, Deadlock and No-Way out+noed, you have enough automated generator slowdown to ensure 2 kills with many killers.
I'd say that hook regression is just dated mechanic for DBD. Killer players camp because the rewards of regression a survivor's hook-state are more rewarding than taking chases. Removing hook regression would largely kill the effectiveness of facecamping for kills. The issue is that you'd practically kill the game for killer by doing so because the alternative method for winning(hooking survivors 3 times) is completely ineffective against strong players. survivor's objective(generator) is simply way faster than the killer's objective towards hooks.
winning by 3 hooking has to be viable if you are to remove camping as strategy. With weaker killer powers left and right and a painfully slow process for killers to kill survivors, there is little reason to change anything regards to camping.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on3 -
One of the issues imo anyways is that way too many people see a killer face camping but still try to save. iof 3 people focused on 3 different gens you can get 3 done before the hook timer runs out.
But so many people try to force a save which helps propogate camping. Only time i face camp is if ive had a bad game and its at the end and i have a hook. if i leave the hook i wont get 1 kill but even then i back off a bit and allow a chance for a save cuz chasing is fun, standing doing nothing is not.
I play more killer over survivor but i RARELY see face camping. like 1 in 50 matches is face camping so idk what matches everyone else gets where this is such a problem. Is it a new player problem? I can see baby killers do it because they dont understand the game yet and even while I myself am by no means a great killer, i see no validity in the argument "we have to camp cuz survs too strong"
My early killer time, i agreed with that. After learning how to chase anfd loop and semi mind game well, there just isnt a need to face camp. Proxy camping is infinitely superior while allowing you to still have hook presence AND you can pressure 1-2 nearby gens.
Surely experienced killers know this and if they know the fundamentals of the game and they know how to play tiles then i cant see any justification to camp.
So am i wrong or is this a symptom of newer killers just not learning the game yet?
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Face camping hasn't been possible in the game for years now.
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Not exactly the same, only the hook timer stop but not the gen block part when a survivor is close.
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If kicking gens had a point, more killers might leave a hook to do it.
At the moment the best way to get the game in your favour is to camp, face or proxy.
My last game as Oni, i had no survs dead, got 1 down, they were on their last gen on the otherside of the map,
Guess what i did, i camped, and got 2 kills, rather than run off to kick a gen and probably get zero kills.
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You fix camping and tunneling by balancing the game properly.This doesn't make sense, if the game was balanced properly, there should be no benefits from camping and tunneling, meaning camping and tunneling must be balanced too.
Unfortunately, this would create the possibility to make a game last forever. I think it doesn't address the facecamping issue, which is it's impossible to guarantee a safe rescue when the killer is facecamping unless:
- at least 2 survivors participate in the rescue to prevent grabbing (baiting isn't reliable);
- the killer can not 1 shot the rescuing survivors.
I think they should at least remove the ability to grab survivors while unhooking (at least for healthy state), and tweak killers that can effortlessly 1 shot any survivors going for an unhook. I don't think tweaking these killers would hurt them much, because they're in a good spot if survivors come rescuing.
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Well this is why ideally if the game was actually balanced properly I’d be fine with built in anti-tunnel mechanics as then it wouldn’t be necessary any more. The problem is it looks like the devs are going to build in more anti camp/tunnel mechanics before addressing the balance properly.
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You aren’t understanding. Killers camp/tunnel because a lot of the time they have to if they want to win with how the games current balance is at high mmr. If you balance the game properly you can win without needing to do that. If the game was properly balanced you could then even implement built in anti tunnel/camp features.
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Just add in a a huge MMR bonus boost if they facecamp. That way they if they want to camp they can but in return their mmr will be boosted and they will go against more sweaty matches with better survivors / SWF's.
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There isn't a simple fix that will be fair for both parties that won't require at least an afternoon of programming and taking funds from skin makers.
The ONLY solution is
- Longer gen times.
- change the hook mechanic to entity stations where it consumes the survivor and dangles them somewhere random on the map.
- fix perks to work with entity stations.
- fix map spawns with actual logic to the tiles and make more tiles. 6 years of the same layouts is not good.
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I highly doubt that first statement in regards to anti-tunnel. decisive strike loosely punishes tunneling. that surely had few complaints. I thought borrow time base-kit was just a joke. BT is perk that punishes proxy camping so I don't think that quite solves issue. old BT used to give unhooker the endurence effect for 15 seconds and If it also includes the inability to be grabbed during unhook, this would allow you to save survivors in very-close proximity of the killer, though as you can already tell, BT+this perk is nuclear.
Sadly, most survivor complain too much about killers with very unjustified changes, so killers have little interesting in resolving survivor issues.
TL:DR nothing is changing.
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If I'm not understanding, it's because you're not clear enough. "Balancing the game properly" is such a broad term you can fit anything in it. I said it doesn't make sense because camping, facecamping and tunneling are part of the game, so they should be considered in your "balancing the game properly", and thus should be balanced.
Killers camp/tunnel because a lot of the time they have to if they want to win with how the games current balance is at high mmr. If you balance the game properly you can win without needing to do that.This might be true, but only for killers in high mmr that care about winning. That's not a lot of people. What about mid mmr, low mmr, and killers that just want to be ass?
Do mid-low mmr players feel the imbalances as much as the players in high mmr? No. Do these killers need to facecamp, camp and tunnel to win these games? No. Are facecamping, camping and tunneling very commun in mid-low mmr? Yes. Why? Because mid-low mmr survivors are terrible at dealing with it.
This is also an issue because of the matchmaking issues: "There's a survivor among all of them that's an easy target? Free win!". How many times have you been matchmaked with people that have far less or far more experience than you in the game? It still happens a lot to me.
If the game was properly balanced you could then even implement built in anti tunnel/camp features.Why not doing this straight up since it is also a cause of imbalances as I just explained?
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People try to make saves instead of just doing gens because people *want to play the game* they want the killer to chase them, they want to be able to use their perks and have fun.
The easiest thing to do would be to implement a punishment system that immobilizes the killer allowing for a save that they cannot stop. Off the top of my head it just seems that if a killer is close to the hook and not in a chase for x amount of time, then they'd get some warnings that they need to leave and if not, they get stuck.
But a killer can be close to the hook and not in a chase while looking for survivors they know are in the area waiting on them to leave and trying to find them. There's nothing wrong with that, so you'd have to think of a way of taking that into account without having the warning proc for the anti-camping mechanic being a way for the killer to tell if there's someone else close by waiting to save or not.
Or you could have it to where if a killer stays by the hook for the duration of Phase 1, then the survivor gets a notification that they get a 100% chance hook escape that also grants endurance and a speed boost allowing them to get away. Because even if survivors are near the hook, if you can't find them for the entirety of the first hook phase then they've just done too good a job of hiding and they win.
This specific mechanic here should be disabled once the end game collapse starts though. All's fair when the gate is open.
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Honestly why would you block the gens... that would really throw the game lol. I have an idea though how about you die on hook slower than you normally would that way a killer face camping could get even more punished for doing so and give the hooked person a larger chance of being saved and if you dont 3 people would most likely escape and the killer would only get 1 kill. Just an idea tbh im still new at the game so anyone can let me know if this is a good or bad idea :/
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- Imagine first responders are still doing the good old "has been tried and abused" parroting. Orion really left deep marks, as it seems.
- Camping and tunneling came up as issues long before MMR/SBMM was even a topic in DBD. "High MMR" is just the latest and greatest rethorical device used to rationalize camping and tunneling.
- Funny that you mention balancing the game properly. OP is not suggesting anything else. It just might not be the same kind of balancing that you are thinking of.
- Also, do you have any unprejudiced/neutral source for the last part of your statement (I assume you're saying: of all killers that camp and tunnel, only a minority does it for fun)?: "There will always be some killers who camp and tunnel just because they want to but that isn't the majority."
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I think they should at least remove the ability to grab survivors while unhooking
Then there's no punishment for running to the hook with BT and rescuing the survivor in front of the killer. Regardless if they were camping or not. It would be old BT all over again.
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Exatcly that. As it is right now as a not one shot killer all i can do to prevent an unhook is to hope the grab works if that Mechanik does not work I just lose no matter if I am camping or not and the next thing that will happen is I am going to punish that bold move and down that surv again and every one is going to demand build in anti tunnel
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I'm more in a favor of a baseline debuff to gen speeds for each hook on a survivor provided the survivor is still alive and a buff to gen repair speeds for each dead survivor. That rewards multiple hooks and disincentivizes removing one survivor from the game quickly. It also gives a final survivor more of a chance to finish one gen and get out.
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If a killer has camped for X amount of time allow the survivor to escape the hook (100% escape chance), not as a perk but just baked into base kit.
That way it’s up to the survivor if they want to risk it in front of the killer, it’s not unfair for the killer either as they can chase and the surv has to use standard perks to counter if they decide to unhook near the killer.
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