Making all the meta perks boring Isn't gonna be fun for anyone!

agree. evil dead game is super fun. cute post.

You hit on one of the two biggest issues here. If something about the core mechanics doesn't change, the usefulness of those perks doesn't change, and the usefulness of other perks doesn't change.

The second point is that as long as the Killer is an RNG element, certain perks will never be useful. If you bring in an aura blocking perk and the killer has no aura reading, wasted slot. In contrast, If you bring in Lightborn and nobody brings flashbangs or flashlights, wasted slot.

This is something that has been called out years ago. Yes, you could bring in all these non-meta perks, but you could also end up with a loadout that is completely useless by not being applicable. And buffing those perks may not change that.

Meta perks exist because they are applicable to core mechanics that occur in every single match.

Non-meta perks are such because there is a risk they may not be applicable or so situational they don't outweigh the benefit of bringing in something else that affect something guaranteed to happen.

In that respect, I think it's going to be very difficult to try and achieve what they are aiming for here. Instead, as a lot of people have said here on the forums, certain meta perks may need to be folded into the base kit of survivors and then killer gameplay will have to balanced around this change, perhaps by adding a secondary objective for survivors.

*taps mic*

5-6 perks for both sides being meta isn’t good, thats called having terrible balance and is actually extremely unhealthy for a game, for an assymetrical with over 200 perks the meta needs to atleast consist of enough perks to make up 8 different loadouts that don’t consist of the same perks, 4-5 perks that are meta makes a game advertised around not having repeating matches….repeating matches

Absolutely nobody said that they were removing a meta, they are just changing the current meta to not be the same thing thats been in the game since year 2, and the current meta literally does not allow other meta perks to be made as they’ll actually need to be OP, this is shown through Circle of Healing, the current meta in dbd is literally just 5-6 perks that are, as I have seen people describe, necessary to win with, and its not even due to killers, its due to killers perks causing this, no joke both sides shouldn’t feel forced to use certain perks that’ll make the game tolerable, making several perks on par with each other without making them on the brink of being OP is the way to go

Some of the meta things are broken. Blight Nurse and 3-4 man SWF groups are broken. DH is broken.

Pretty much everything else in the 'meta' category is "ok".

"We're not looking to make things boring. We're looking to shake things up and make the old meta not such an obvious choice. In its place, we'll be buffing a bunch of other perks to give you a heaps of new options to pick from."

Looking at the available options you have perks like Pebble that do basically nothing and Deliverance on the same character. The obvious solution is to make all the perks as worthless as pebble, red herring, and many others.

Then it doesn't matter what perks anyone takes because nothing has any real effect. The second you do that and you don't change the core game mechanics there is no point in playing killer.

Why? Because the killer objective takes about twice as long as the survivor objective.

like what lose 100 bloodpoints? you sure you wanna go down this road? you've proven in the past that you can make decisions that can led to the loss of tons of players and as much as not seeing every perk in ever game would be cool there's a reason why the meta exists to begin with. removing ds might work fine when you're versing a wraith with 200 hrs but its a different story when against a nurse even more since you bugged both range addons.

Hope that you know what you're doing cause seeing another "we're sorry we did this here's 100k bloodpoints" will feel a lame way out

Could you hint at how this could be done? Not saying to tell me exactly what you're gonna do but is it going to be, extending the time you struggle on hook to buy others more time, something impacting the match directly, or something more passive like "You lose pips or points if you camp":

Just throwing it out there.. If you look at the most used perks from killers you see what the issue is in the game? Gens go too fast. so as much as im into this meta perk shift since honest its boring, im little worried since gen speeds havent been discussed and they even give survivors more perk ( the new Haddie perk) to make gens faster. Hopefully you fix prove thyself too.

Anyways im looking forward to it. Seeing same perks and using same perks all the time is getting boring.

Inb4 dark sense meta in 2022 LMAO

I dunno about that...I think it depends on the way the perks are buffed. Boil Over is kind of a broken mechanic is resistant to buffs that matter. If a survivor learns where on the map he is safe because boil over prevents hooking, the perk will always be broken.

I think more about the lucky break type perks, which offer a cool advantage but its duration is so short you basically get to use it once per match. This could be buffed to the point of usefulness. There are a ton of perks like this where the advantage is so tiny currently that it cannot compete with a perk that literally saves a down. Really, who cares about leadership when you could take borrowed time, dead hard, or decisive strike.

Perks need to have a meaningful advantage and not be janky to trigger and survivors would use them. The meta perks aren't even all that fun to use except dead hard. Dead hard is awesome fun, with the cool plays that can be made. I feel forced to use the meta perks or my matches end on my first hook. If killers couldn't camp or tunnel, I'd never choose borrowed time or decisive for my build....but they do so I have to.

Meta's are self imposed on the community because people tend to follow the path of least resistance. Largely due to people not being able to think for their selves or try new things or just being lazy.

You don't need Dead Hard, Decisive Strike, Unbreakable, or Iron Will to be a good survivor and escape trials regularly. They have their uses in specific situations but its due to so many people intransigently refusing to experiment with other builds or try new things that keeps this "meta" a thing, not necessity.

If you like those perks and that's your build and you don't want to use anything else then that's fine, but the problem is with the people who mistakenly think they are obligated to use those perks. That they don't have any choice but to use those perks because anything else is not viable, and that is hilariously untrue.

Like a lot of killers, I hate Dead Hard. But I don't hate it because it robs me of hits, I hate it because so many people are so ######### obsessed with it. I hate it because I see so many people bring it, but then use it in dumb ways that give them no value for it. But they're taking it because they're told its the "best".

Well, it's only good if you know when and how to use it, and most people don't. Hell most of the time you can trick Survivors into using it before you actually swing at them, or they'll use it just to gain a tiny amount of distance in a dead zone just because they have it and that gives them like a literal second of extra time in a chase and that's all.

They would be so much better off bringing any one of a number of other perks instead of Dead Hard, because they aren't getting any value from it. But because of the misguided group think around Dead Hard too many people bring it "just because" even though they aren't actually getting any benefit from it.

Killer Meta's are actually a bit more necessary than not because of how fast generators can be done. I don't bring a lot of slow down perks though. I've been playing a lot of Nemesis lately and I go with BBQ, Bamboozle, Lethal Pursuer, and then switch out the last one depending on what I feel like. Sometimes Nurses' Calling, sometimes Save the Best for Last. Sometimes ######### Lightborne if I'm just not in the mood.

Most matches I win, I win at 1 to 0 generators left unless I just end up with some potato survivors or I have some hilarious Zombie RNG because that's just how generator speeds go.

With that being said, are you also recognizing some of the reasons why Killer game-delay-related perks are used by so many killers?

And to be clear, even if you, BHVR, technically do not find them to be necessary for a balanced game, there are still quite obviously a very large amount of killer players that FEEL a l o t more comfortable playing the game with those perks.

I don't think it would go over well if you addressed tunneling and camping (which would be great) and touched DS + BT but did absolutely no changes relating to the uncomfortable pacing of matches when game-delay-related perks are not in use, but still proceeded to touch pop, ruin, pain resonance, etc.

I just hope these changes are fair and do not look at meta perks at face value. There are reasons why both survivor and killer perks are run, and base game compensation in the form of balance changes WILL be expected by this community, and there will be uproar if there isn't anything significant.

And that's pretty much what I'm saying. I'm making the point that killers find it necessary to use game delay perks, and that game delay SHOULD NOT BE NERFED without base game adjustments that make it easier for killers to apply pressure WITHOUT those game delay perks. I don't know why you think I'm making a point against what you're saying, my friend. What I'm asking is favoring your argument.

Ahh yee using the same 8 perks outta all of the ones we have is soo much fun and the only good thing!

It might be fun for you, but its NOT a good thing that 90% of the perks they design go unused.