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Camping Killers, Thoughts?
So I usually try my best not to camp as a killer--and when I say camp, I mean any of kind camp whether is face or proxy camp. I hook them, take a look around to see if any of their friends are hiding nearby, then I leave and go look for another survivor.
I am seeing an INSANE rise in camping killers. And not just proxy, but like--stand right there and wait for a survivor to come along and save them--camping killers. And whats even more frustrating is they are rewarded for this gameplay because as survivors, you WANT/NEED to save your friends, because the game is nearly impossible to do with just 3/2 survivors with 5 gens left. Like if you dont have 4 survivors to get at least 2 gens down in the beginning, the game is going to be unbeatable unless you have someone who is a looping GOD who can distract the killer for 4 gens.
I just got out of a game that really grinded my gears. RPD map, me and Tapp are on a gen, we see Claudette almost immediately get downed. Dang, that sucks. We see her get hooked and one of us as Kindred, so we can see Huntress appearing/disappearing by Claudette as she paces in and out of Kindred range. Proxy camping.
So, this is gonna be a camping game. I see Huntress as Thanotophobia and even if I were to just stick to gens and grind them out as fast as I could--it wouldn't be fast enough. It took me and Tapp working together just to get 1 gen done in the time it took for Claudette to get camped to death. So If I wanted to get my 2 gen challenge done, I HAVE to save my teammates. But Huntress literally just camped us down one by one, relying on the survivors altruism to come save their teammate. What makes me even more frustrated is even if we DID just leave the survivor hanging there, with Thanotophobia being active from the hooked survivor, we can't get gen's done fast enough in the time it takes the hooked survivor to die. Theres 5 gens, 4 survivors. Even if we played as selfish as possible, we can't win. Huntress refuses to chase, and just camps. So it's just me now, and my 2nd gen is 90%, Huntress finds me.
I thought, "Well, they're guarantee'd a 4k." So I gesture to the gen, "Please let me finish" Huntress doesn't attack, walks over and kicks, I think cool a little extra BP for them, I'll just finish my gen now--and then Huntress rips me off the gen, one that was at 99 now, and hooks me, hits my body on hook, then in post game chat trash talks us.
I just asked: why do you play like this, why camp, why not just let me have the gen? etc.
And of course, "Maybe uninstall lol sorry youre not good enough to even get 2 gens" (insert all the normal trolling trash talk)
The game rewards camping SO MUCH for killers. I know is a "viable" strategy, because clearly it works--but it literally ruins the game for everyone else. I'm not saying I deserve or even want to escape every game, but most of the fun in this game is the chases, the escapes, the CHANCE of getting out. A killer just face camping like that gives ZERO of that, and I don't understand how the killer is even enjoying themselves that way. "oh just gen rush the killer will lose that way" No, no they wont. Because I've played several games like this. Unless you're all working together all the time while someone is dying on hook, the BEST you can hope for is 1 survivor left with 1 generator left, and odds are the killer WILL find hatch before you, because they don't have to hide while looking for it, and then your chance of opening a door is even slimmer.
Personally, I think camping completely ruins the game, hurt the community between survivors and killers, and overall just bring the game down.
Comments
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Doesn't matter. Until the game is balanced otherwise, 1st hook camp is still effective, the faster you can turn the game into a 3v1 instead of a 4v1 or in the case of nemesis an 12v1, the faster you shift those odds the less pressure you have to be under. Meaning you can give the last 3 a chance. Until they make up for the survivor power creep or relieve the pressure of the role its probably not gonna change. Game hasn't been enjoyable for most killers for a while now so I can't even get mad at it. Not to say that survivors haven't been enjoying themselves either, but, without a killer there is no game. The obvious solution they've come up with is to just put up bots in place. Probably might be this games fate indefinitely unless they can figure something out. I won't tell you to uninstall but I will say... "Why care?". Its been in the same state for over a year so why care?
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Justifying camping because you are a bad killer does not make it ok. Camping and tunneling is exploiting a major game flaw where it rewards doing nothing.
Killers are just fortunate they have a heavy crutch to lean on. Survivors do not have anything that can "guarantee" wins such as basement bubba.
We can blame the game for being killer sided but nothing else.
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Camping is boring and terrible but has some underlying problems where a simple idea would probably result in killer players leaving in droves and BHVR reverting it pretty quickly. However the first gen and perhaps more could easily be done before Claud had died unless she killed herself on hook/it took you guys awhile to find a gen. If Claud had stayed on the hook until she died she would be there for 120 seconds. If you and Tapp are on a gen you should knock it out in ~45 seconds,some quick math
(1.0) * -(.06) = -.06 = the Thanatophobia penalty that should be applied from 1 survivor on hook and 3 healthy
(1.0) * -(.15) = -.15 the co-op gen efficiency penalty
1.00 + (-.06) + (-.15) = .79 C/S for both you and Tapp
(.79 * 2) = 1.58 C/S done by both of you
80 / 1.58 = ~50.6 seconds.
The two of you should have finished the first gen before Claud hit stage 2 of her hook
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Im not sure to be honest. Personally I don't care if I'm on RPD, it's a huge map, kinda cluttered, but overall it's just a map and I don't dislike it over any other map.
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You act like I told him to uninstall and never play again lol. I just asked WHY would you play like this. Like why hit me on hook, why not just let me finish my gen--i didn't berate him. I play killer just as much as I do survivor, and this behavior was totally unwarranted. No one did anything to this killer, they spent all game camping and slugging on hook. And "hate the game not the player" is such a bs argument for literally anything. Just because someone CAN do something, doesn't mean they SHOULD. You CAN cut in line, and likely no one will stop you from doing so, but it doesn't mean you should. Theres a lot of things people shouldn't do, but do it anyway, doesnt meant you should "oh hate life, not the ######### that make it worse"
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"Hey why do you care about this thing you love slowly dying and becoming terrible?" Wow, what a question. Gee, I dunno. Why WOULD someone care about something they like slowly dying? Sheesh I just can't fathom it.
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Depends on the killer
If I'm playing Trickster or Artist RPD is fine.
If I'm playing Twins, Blight, or Pyramid head (or any killer I'm not used to)i will probably use all I can get.
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I spawned right next to my gen, so theres 0 seconds for me to find it. Tapp showed up maybe 5 seconds later? So about the moment we both start working on it, we see Claudette get hit and downed within the first 6 seconds of us doing our gen together, and she gets hooked. I see Thano in the corner so we're woring on teh gen. Im taking a guess that Cheryl went to save Claudette because thano was still active once claudette was hooked because to my knowledge thano only goes off injured, not currently hooked. claudette did get off for about 5 seconds, then immediately downed again, and re-hooked. i didn't leave my gen that entire time, tapp stepped away for a minute, but by the time we were finishing up claudette was dying. i have it all on recording, so i can rewatch to see exactly what happened, but my original post is a condesed version of what happened because otherwise it would of been 9 paragraphs long.
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I see a fair few, yeah.
I never camp as killer unless it's the EOGC.
The core issue is that, in a SWF you can often do planned exchanges while slamming gens, or just get a 3 out if it's a Bubba/Ghosty/Myers or something you can't really save against. But in a solo queue game, there's always someone that insists on trying a risky unhook - or worse - the person on the hook kills themselves. Which generally means a lost game.
See - there's no real reason to not suicide. You're going to be sitting there for the entire game getting hit on hook, twiddling your thumbs. You get no extra BP or grade points for sticking it out.
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dont you get extra BP for struggling during second phase?
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What you experienced in your RPD match was your typical "get good scrub" killer main who couldn't care less how you feel about camping. Its unfortunate that so many players have this attitude, when it solves nothing and does nothing to make the game overall a better experience for everyone. Its the dice we roll when we hit that ready button.
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I mean I get that but whats changed? Sure you care, a lot of people care. I used to care. But the overall dynamic hasn't changed in a year so I asked you the same question I asked myself. Which is, why even throw the energy into it when nothing significant changes?
Same boat I used to be in. You can throw post after post of suggestion, post after post of complaint, they don't care so why should I? We raised post after post about MMR they doubled down saying "Just let it settle it'll be fine" matches went to hell and back, in some cases so off balanced it was worse than people smurfing in the previous match set up. They add flashlight wobble to survivors making it even less accurate to land saves....FOR WHAT THOUGH? Like who asked? Literally who asked? Killers weren't complaining about flashlight accuracy, as far as most killers are concerned flashlights are fair game, you can avoid them and counter them and see them before they get in play, giving you plenty of options to react. I know survivors weren't asking for less accurate flashlights so what gives? Why make something that was fair and both sides thought it was fair even worse? Same thing with Super hillbilly jumps. Like who asked?? The amount of times you'd see a hillbilly be accurate enough to pull something like that off is 1 in a million live. And its likely worth clipping and posting for the sheer amazement. Survivors weren't complaining about it cause less than 1% of the entire playerbase has ever even gone up against an elite hillbilly who could even skill like that. Killers weren't complaining because who the hell plays billy? After nerfs people put him down.
Boon totems another wild thing. Who asked for this? Who asked to have yet another objective split in half by both sides? Killers have been complaining about hexes and their non viability for ages, we get promised some form of fix for the terrible spawns, get sent backwards by now having all of your hexes have to worry about not just being destroyed, but actually having that position now benefit survivors.
Map size became an issue, their idea of fixing it was to shrink maps then introduce GIGANTIC dead zones? FOR WHO? Like literally who asked for that?
Killers knocking down doors that give you a false sense of choice as if leaving it closed is ever a good option?
Being able to move 360 degrees while dead harding? Why was that a thing?
Hemorrhage debuff dropping healing progress instead of tweaking healing speed? WHO ASKED FOR THESE? I can tell you right now as a killer main I do not give a good gyat damn what your healing bar looks like. If you can heal mid chase enough for it to matter I'm not doing my job. If I'm not chasing you, heal....I don't care...you're supposed to heal when I'm not on top of you.
Updates in this game go in such a weird direction I just throw up my hands, no point in caring. That way you don't get disappointed when nothing happens.
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A lot more killers are forcing stage 2 these days, it's a super powerful shortcut
You either trade or let them hit 2nd stage. The worst part is without coordination, the 'grab game' as it's now known is tilted towards the Killer.
They either get a grab and double their pressure or a trade which is a free hook stage.
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Very, very little. You'd earn more BP/time by suiciding and moving to the next game ASAP, team be damned.
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Honestly, if it's like that, they literally are just camping hardcore, I sometimes disconnect. :/ I mean, I'm there to play a game, if I'm not playing and just pushed in a corner, it's not fun anyway. Or I just kill myself on the hook by failing checks depending on how campy they are. If they want to camp, they are going to get a very short game, I'm just not going to play with you. If they kinda come and go and not face camping, I'm more tolerant.
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When a killer isn't camping, he's T-bag at the exit doors. Just keep that fact in mind.
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There's nothing wrong with it and there are always situations where camping is just the best play.
People just need to get over themselves. Camping does not equate to being a bad killer.
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"You are not good enough" said by a camper is always so funny 🤣🤣
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Still works well.
Just played against a Bubba who camped - but only the first one really with some downs when we tried to save.
He 4ked us.
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I think survivors should be provided with baseline information to make informed strategic decisions around it. I think it's really, really stupid design that solo players have to play blind around camping unless they happen to have Kindred. Apparently we can hear the hooked survivor scream from anywhere on the map but it's too much to yell that the killer is near.
Camping can and should be a strategic play, but all survivors should have the tools to deal with it in every game. It shouldn't be up to what perks you or your teammates did/didn't bring if you're playing solo.
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I don't camp either...
But let's say you were in a 4 man SWF... you (the Survivors) would've done more
Yes camping is an issue but Gen speeds are kinda fast... and camping is hard to figure a solution for (as far I can think)
Second chance perks are used a lot (same for Gen slowdown not going to lie) So both sides are trying to extend the match
Some of the issues are in the base game (no perks, addons, Items and offerings)... IMO making certain changes to the base game will benefit everyone
Plus the Killer was probably sick and tired of the game (so it wasn't you or your team)
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A main problem is the fact that your fun is tied to the killer and same goes the other way.
When I play killer, honestly and I'm sorry to say, I don't care if the survivors are having fun because we're not in D&D were I play as the game master, if I need to camp to maximize my odds of not getting slaped and enjoy my game so be it.
I don't meet many survivors who cares about the killer fun, and I don't expect them to anyway.
At the end of the day even if you camp or not, tunnel or not, you'll still be called a camper or a tunneler.
But don't get me wrong, I won't do any of these just to annoy people, if the process is annoying i'm sorry to hear it but it is what it is.
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Like, I totally get camping on survive with friends, or like, you are swamped with a gang of flashlighters or something. But to literally grab the first survivor you see before even a single gen is a completed is just lazy killing. I get that it's legal in game, but it's just a really horrible, un fun strategy. Like, the whole thing is this is a game. By camping you are literally not allowing 1/4 people to play the game. It's basically like body blocking in a room.
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I think half the posters here take this stuff too seriously.
I mean wow look at some of the comments, people talking about having...
"the tools to make informed strategic decisions." <- the unkown and the threat is half the fun you aren't a general in a war you are a camp counselor at crystal lake.
"Baseline abilities to counter it camping every game" <- have my cake and eat it too argument, I want to bring my uber looping build and get even unsafe hook saves for free.
"its exploiting major game flaws" <- how so, its possible to save against it unlike true face camping of old where you could body block the save. Its exploiting game design no more than say looping, which exploits smaller hit box for max advantage and unintended but now accepted gameplay. 360's which work only because of screen stutter and lag. locker flashlight tech I got more but I'll stop.
"it guarantees wins" <- only against people who aren't very good at the game, kinda like "gen rushing" guarantees wins against killers who aren't very good at the game. (Actually nothing guarantees wins but its a nice excuse to use rather than looking at your own gameplay).
My favorite is "why not just let me finish my gen" <- man I hate it when my opponent doesn't let me win.
Sheesh, camping works because people like you lot get so triggered by it that you make stupid plays and end up handing the killer kills, that's basically it.
The are games where I'm outclassed by the survivors, so I switch it up to hook defense over chasing and what happens... everyone gets all in my face because they are triggered by it and I end up with 4 downs with no extra gens done.
Its often a better option than chasing in a lot of scenarios, but the game elements that lead to that aren't people's concern they just want to punish camping because hey they don't like it.
Yeah its not much fun to hang on a hook all game, but that's a core game mechanic camping or not. At some point you are going to hang on a hook, that may happen for your whole game.
Best quote here. The only thing that makes a player bad is getting triggered by gameplay and acting like a sore loser as a result, regardless of which side they are playing.
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So, by what you said, you enjoy "playing" the game by standing there and doing nothing, camping? I mean... I guess. Have fun watching paint dry.
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Finishing ONE GENERATOR is not "winning" the game you egg.
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Sounds like a lot of killers who highly utilize camping don't actually LIKE playing Dead by Daylight, they like ranking up. Because the main gameplay design of the game is to be chased and to chase--thats why theres so many perks around that. If it was designed for camping there would be perks that make camping better--"When standing within 5m of a hooked survivor all survivors within a 10m radius will have their auras revealed" yet we never see perks like that do we? Sounds like killers who boast the face-camping strategy just want to rank up and gather blood points, not play the game. Because if your TRUEST form of enjoyment is just standing in one spot watching someone die on hook, you'd really enjoy watching grass grow.
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You get into more chases by camping, in my experience. It is easier for them to come to you because they have to save or it is a 3v1; where those types of survivors would not stand a snowball's chance in hell. It is cute that you think patrolling generators of immersed survivors is more compelling than literally just standing there, but I would argue it is about the same.
If it were up to me, I would prefer finding a new target and getting into chase, but most of the information perks are booty. I do about as well with or without them because they never really help when it actually matters. Except for Lethal. That is the only good one.
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Never said that it was fun, never will,I only said that it was a (sometime) necessary evil.
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If survivors force a map on me then i will camp. Map offerings shouldn't be in the game while we have the current map designer who thinks the game is a perfectly balanced map with no issues.
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?? no idea what you are saying here, never said anything about finishing one gen being a win. ??
Its all just different gameplay, looping and chasing is just one part of the game. You could play immersive and try to avoid the killer all game.
You could play a gen defense game and just patrol three gens all game in the hope of securing a solid endgame 3 gen.
You can build for chasing, slowdown, endgame, basement defense and camping there are plenty of good camping builds.
There is a real mindset amongst players that there is one right way to play the game and any deviation from that is some kind of malicious attack on their fun. Frankly that's complete BS.
Some of the best games I've had as killer and survivor have involved a basement build where there is lots of playing around the shack, trading for hooks and very little actual prolonged chasing going on.
Any game can be fun if you take the ridiculous expectations of how it should be played and flush that thinking down the toilet.
PVP is dynamic people are gonna play in all different ways, your fun may not equal someone else's fun, if you want a consistent predictable game play experience then find a single player game and you'll get it.
This is why I'm excited for solo game bots in DBD, I can expect a consistent game experience which will likely often be more fun than the PVP experience.
Lastly the terms camping and tunneling are so overused at this point that it often doesn't matter what you do in game people will accuse you of it just because they lost and are pissy about it.
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Imagine if those dastardly killers picked Insidious.
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I'm indifferent to camping tbh. Personally I refuse to camp or proxy camp unless survivors are swarming me at hook. It's a little annoying to be camped on hook as survivor, but I just shrug it off as it's not that big of a deal to me. There's no right way of playing this game and how I play is not how I expect someone else too as well.
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Regardless of whether you play killer or survivor, no one can deny camping is a real issue with this game at the moment.
I get there are some circumstances where killers have no choice but to camp (EGC, survivors gathering round hook, etc.), but the number of times in solo queue I see killers down one person and just face-camp them to second stage/death. It's unhealthy for the game.
Also, why can killers grab healthy survivors off the hook? This shouldn't be a thing.
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