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Chapter releases should never feel weak.

Zarathos
Zarathos Member Posts: 1,910

Recently i picked up trickster and was genuinely supirsed how different and exciting it was to play him. Addons like his ricochet and piercing daggers whilst situational is refreshing and cool. His exposed addon feel like an actual technique and dramatically changed up my build for trickster it was a breath of fresh air from the rather generic add on modifiers I'm use to seeing.

I was initally wary of bothering with him because of all the depipster meme's and his initial release. I wanted draw attention to this because I do think behaviour needs to make better first impressions with there killers. Sadako dropped and even if she gets buffed the community is gonna always have the image of an underwhelming killer. Nothing short of overtunning her is gonna make an impression and thats just not ideal.

I know its not intentional to ever want to disappoint but I find a lot of releases are playing it way to safe. Bar michalea and pinhead. The introduction of COH dramatically made an impact it was admitadly overtuned but it actually shook up killer builds and alter at least one survivor perk slot (a better safety valve woulda been nice). Pinhead added In a whole new objective with a power that stands out espicially when you look at his iri and purple addons which again affects his builds.

For comparison many chapters like the crow chapter did really nothing to impress and I think a chapter gretest failure is being bland. Don't get me wrong a safety valve should be ready to tone back oppresive perks or killers powers but the default should be to take risks.

Comments

  • Souplet
    Souplet Member Posts: 345

    I agree with what has been said

    CoH was one of the reason killer player base went this far down. It was strong af and make game absolutely unbalanced for a while (still does)

    I'd rather have fair perks and killers than this kind of ######### (artist is a good example aswell)


    Meta shifting is badly needed because the only way that DH DS UB IW CoH would be replaced if when better perks get introduce (and better perks than DH would be ridiculously broken)

  • AbsolutGrndZer0
    AbsolutGrndZer0 Member Posts: 1,982

    A highly wanted licensed chapter is always going to be better for hype than an original. Hell, just look at the outrage that this year's Anniversary chapter isn't a licensed one. Is The Dredge good? Is Haddie Kaur good? Maybe, that still has yet to be seen, however they are going to be seen in a very very negative light because so many players don't give a damn about original content, they want Candyman, Five Nights at Freddy's, Phantasm (my #1 licensed wish) or whatever.. original be damned.


    I personally really like The Artist, I have all of her outfits except the latest one (haven't bought it yet, probably will though) and while I am still a Legion main, I do play her sometimes for a break. But shes original, not licensed and she's not Nurse or Blight, so that's why you rarely see her.

  • Aneurysm
    Aneurysm Member Posts: 5,270

    Artist is strong, fun to play (for some people, definitely not all), and came with three good perks. Survivor and his perks were pretty meh but overall there have been far worse chapters than portrait of a murder.

  • Emeal
    Emeal Member Posts: 6,865
    edited June 2022

    On the contrary, Chapters that feel strong are usually OP and needs to be nerfed.

    BHVR does it this way to avoid, making a strong Killer and then nerfing it into the ground... for the most part.

  • hailxsatanxeveryxday
    hailxsatanxeveryxday Member Posts: 920

    Trickster's aesthetic is still awful, and that's the reason I'm always going to look down on him, even if they buff him to S-tier. I tried one game with him and didn't have fun, and I probably won't try him again until I'm going for his achievements. A lot of people feel similarly about him, and that's why his reputation has such staying power even after they made a good effort to turn him into a competent killer.

    I think Artist didn't garner as much attention because of her high skill ceiling and her aesthetic. She's a great killer, but she also takes a lot of practice to learn. When there are multiple killers that take tens to hundreds of hours of playtime just to feel competent, you can't focus on all of them at once, even if you want to. Right now, I'm practicing with Cenobite alongside my mains, and once I feel competent with him, I'll look at Artist, Nurse, or Blight...

    I also feel like some people didn't enjoy her aesthetic, although personally she's one of my favorites in that regard. Eyrie is awesome, too.

  • Aven_Fallen
    Aven_Fallen Member Posts: 18,097

    It is easier to bring weak(er) stuff and buff it than having things which are too strong and nerf them.

    First of all, it is easier to buff weaker things, because it might just be number changes. If something is too strong, a number change might make it too weak.

    Second, the reaction is much more positive if weaker things get buffed compared to stronger things getting nerfed. You see this all the time, if something which is too strong gets nerfed, people are on the arms saying that this Perk/Interaction/KIller has been "ruined", while it is still completely fine. But you rarely see that people say that something is OP if it was weak before and gets buffed.

  • Phasmamain
    Phasmamain Member Posts: 11,543
  • Zarathos
    Zarathos Member Posts: 1,910

    I dont know about that. Blight got heavy themes of addiction and losing ones humanity to a monstrous craving that starts to overwhelm the person till they are just fragment of what they once were.

    K pop man who dervies fun and enjoymemt from sadism isnt very nuanced. The trickster could have had some misrable experiances that ties into some of the real life abuses in the k pop industry but they choose to write him as psychopath sadist. Had the roles been reversed and the trickster was a stalker of a k pop start that might have been even more exciting.

  • Zarathos
    Zarathos Member Posts: 1,910
    edited June 2022

    The problem here is the ships sailed on the first impression. No matter how much potential the perk or killer could have it dosent matter if the killer is undercooked. Also if its so easy to buff them why does it take so long to do so. Some killer concepts remain undercooked or worse are missing mechanics that prevent the power or perk from being effective.

    Imagine pinhead without the lament comfiguration or plague without her purge. Nemsis is a great example of what im talking about is power is just a tentacle attack. His mutations are just minor adjustments to his power. The zombies arent worth talking about. Is it any wonder why most re fans didnt stick around.he needed something more daring.

  • hailxsatanxeveryxday
    hailxsatanxeveryxday Member Posts: 920

    No. For one, Blight is much stronger than Artist or just about anyone other than Nurse when played correctly. Blight also feels like more of a traditional horror character in a lot of ways, and I think some people dismissed Artist for being less traditional.

    I assume that you were referring to Blight and not Trickster.

  • Phasmamain
    Phasmamain Member Posts: 11,543

    More so referring to artist here. Her lore is alright and her power is one of the strongest to date. Yet she is still played less than someone like legion from my experience even before the rework

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 14,472

    There are some exceptions but generally speaking like 90%+ of killers come to the PTB weak, release weak and then end up needing buffs/reworks years later to not only them but also their perks because they didn't listen to us back then. This process has repeated for years. In general most of them still end up weak even after that buff/rework years later.

    They keep making more work for themselves down the road by being extremely conservative when it comes to killer power level. They are literally the source of their own problem. They will never be able to catch up on the killer reworks/buffs they do every mid chapter because they're releasing new killers to be added to that future rework/buff list nearly just as fast as they're doing them and as I mentioned before it's even worse than that because most those reworks/buffs are still not enough, they're way too safe.

    Now obviously a better solution here is tackling the games core issue which is map design but since they aren't doing that this is where were left.

  • Zarathos
    Zarathos Member Posts: 1,910

    Legion concept of gang violence and general youth misanthropy might be edgy and cliched but its something that more relatable then the artists struggle which is just a more niche human experiance.

    Powerwise its less pick up and play then legion which gives the illusion of a fast paced storm of stabs. (Pre buff) artist requires some aim and timing with a good bit of macro understanding.

  • Zarathos
    Zarathos Member Posts: 1,910
    edited June 2022

    Great point there always gonna have killer kits age as power creep naturally develops but now you stack on that deliberatly weaker killers and suddenly they have to start adding whole mechanics into there kit to try and create appeal. The ghostface, legion changes show it can be done but i imagine it wasnt a smooth process.