Everything in this game feels like bullying, and that's why people get so tilted
I was wondering why people get so aggressive in particular with this game, and I've come to realise that, as the title says, a lot of this game can feel like your being bullied. Even the simple act of shining a flashlight in someone's face feels like an aggressive act, when it's just a part of the game. Things like pallet stuns, flashlight saves, body blocking, tunnelling and proxy camping are all just things you do to complete your objective, but they all *feel* like aggressive acts.
You've downed someone, you're about to get a clutch kill when all of a sudden three Megs emerge and swarm you, leading to the surv escaping. It's this kind of "reward denial" that makes people feel as if they're being bm'd or bullied. I've seen people accused of being toxic for running certain builds or for flashlight saving someone. Obviously, none of this is toxic, but the denial of a completed objective makes it feel like the other side is personally bm'ing you.
I don't want this to turn into a bloated essay, so I'll end it here. I hope this made sense; I suck at getting my point across.
Comments
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I don't really have anything to contribute but I completely agree with your post.
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To be honest as you get more experienced with the game, the less most of what you mentioned will bother you. At least in my case - stuff like killers camping me or survivors trying to take hits for their teammates doesn't bother me to that degree. It can be annoying sure but being annoyed isn't the same as feeling like you're being bullied or personally attacked.
Most of the time I get camped it's usually because the Killer felt like it's what they need to do in order to win and i'm the same when I play killer.
What still bothers me about this game is the lengths people will go to in order to either gloat, stack the game in their favour from the start or both at the same time. Map offerings and the like.
I recently played a match with a killer I'm not well versed with, on a map that is extremely survivor sided and it only takes one bad sport to sour the whole experience.
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I knew when I got into this game it was a toxic arms race if you let it be. My goal was to not allow that to happen and I think I'm succeeding.
It can start with either a perceived slight or an actual one. Perceived slights, such as 'camping gens' as if that's not what the killer is SUPPOSED to do, would you rather them camp hooks? Or alternatively a killer getting salty over a clutch sabotage (a one time thing not constantly) or flashlight blind after a crate stun. There was even one example where a killer thought a survivor was cheating because of something buggy that happened which actually benefitted them.
Regardless once that toxic arms race starts, it quicky becomes us vs. them and nothing is off the table and the other side regardless of who they are and what they've actually done is a vile monster. The game doesn't exactly discourage it either in it's design choices and BHVR doesn't even pretend to allow reporting of toxic behavior only in extreme 'hostage' situation cases or extreme levels of abuse. I'm a little amazed this game isn't more toxic in all honesty.
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I agree with the camping part, but camping at 5 or 4 gens is almost always a genuine attempt to spite a random survivor.
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I'm sure there are killers who do camp from the get-go 100%.
Be it bc they know there's nothing the survivor can do (Bubba for example) or maybe out of spite so on.
Same time I've had games where I put a guy in the basement and I see where their teammates are/they are all close by so I'll commit to it and force them into action or secure an early stage 2. It sucks for the person on the hook of course, but it sucks for the killer to lose 3 gens in their first chase as well. Just part of the game at the moment.
Aside from slugging, hooks are the only thing that actively forces survivors off generators and into danger.
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in a lot of games, things will feel personal when they really aren't. That guy that headshot you in Halo three times in a row isn't trying to make you have a bad time, he's just playing the game.
I've been there for sure. The more you play, more you're like "oh, nice flashy save" instead of getting tilted
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Imo when it comes to the basement all bets are off. It's the survivors fault if they go down near it.
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Well, it lies in the nature of asymmetrical pvp games and how they are balanced.
As someone that got bullied from elementary through middle/highschool (don't know exactly which term is correct, i am from Germany, it was from grade 1-10), i can say that the "everyone else is against/ganging up on you" feeling you get from aggressive, coordinated survivor is quite similar or very reminding of it.
Especially since not many killer are able to hold up against it, like you said, getting denied ever so often as killer. Most often the killer can only TRY and hit them but experienced survivor know how to switch aggro and will heal their soon after and in the end the killer can't gain anything.
Luckily and at the same time not, is this most often a case of failed matchmaking but we know how often it can happen with the way bhvr handles the MMR.
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When it's repetitive it's bullying. i.e click clicky baggy baggy.
That's what tells me either you're a 15 year old who wants attention and if i feel like it you'll get 100% of it until you die. (Then you'll complain you got camped and tunnelled)
Or i'll ignore you if you know what you're doing and smash your friends instead.
It's like seeing a shirtless David, you think you're a hard man then prove it.
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I completely agree with the OP's view on this. A lot intent is implied and assumed with so many actions people do in this game. In one match you may get a ghostface who likes teabagging with the survivors and isn't mad about it at all. In another you may get a ghostface who will rage at you in chat after camping you out of the match if you teabag them at all even though a lot of players like to do this against a ghostface simply because he can do it back. I've come across many killers who think if you simply have a flashlight or toolbox in your hand at the start of the match you're automatically toxic or intend to bully them. People really need to relax on things like this and realize people are just playing the game and not trying to be mean to you. Its different if they admit it after the match or say something bad to you but often times people just assume the worst.
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There is a major difference from someone that was able to get a great flashlight save to other people clicking non stop and following you everywhere you go just to keep clicking the flashlight as much as they can to try and annoy the hell out of you.
If someone gets a great flash light save on me ill let them know post game chat that they pulled that of well, if someone wants to follow me clicking there flashlight non stop i'll just hunt them down and kill them, if its really bad ill leave them and stand over them till they bleed out they wanted me to focus on them so i made there wish come true.
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Now moris on the other hand I feel differently about. Moris are completely unnecessary and can easily be taken as the killer being toxic to you for the sake of being toxic. Given also the fact survivors have absolutely nothing like a mori they can do to the killer, it comes off as bullying because the killer didn't have to do it. Its like a slap in the face when you already lost. I never enjoy a match where the killer plays a mori. I just want to do the gens as fast as I can and get out of there. I played DBD in the time where killers were getting 4k moris in very short matches and that alone made me hate them. Even though they require 2 hooks to do now, they are still an extra way for killers to interact with the survivors in a way that can easily come off as bullying or just being toxic in general. If there was a way I could avoid matches with moris (just the offering of course) I would do it.
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are you complaining.. about mori's in 2022...?
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None of that is bullying. 4 man SWF on coms with flashlight macro's constantly clicking and still winning because they used a game offering is bullying. Flashlights need a click limiter and i have no idea why they have not done it yet.
Going into someone's steam profile to rage and cry and -rep after the game is bullying
weaponizing Twitch and youtube to shame a player because they didn't follow your rulebook, is bullying.
Threatening someone's family because they made a joke about swf and stretched is bullying (spooknjukes) Yes, survivor mains sink this low.
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I didn't know the year had anything to do with having an opinion on something in a video game. I also didn't know I was complaining. Pretty sure I was just adding to the conversation of the thread. Seeing the survivor you're playing as getting brutalized to death can actually come across the wrong way to people and I'd even argue many of them are done to bully the survivor. I know this because I literally had someone do this to me and admit they did it for the very purpose of being toxic.
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Didn't spooks get exposed for being extremely problematic? Not saying any of them were in the right but still
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Wait, I'm confused. Was Spooknjukes the victim or perpetrator?
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Victim.
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Bringing a Mori is a meme now-a-days, it's less powerful than bringing a hatch offering in SWF at this point. It litterally only happens when it doesn't matter anymore, the only benefit is you get to see the killer have a cool kill animation.
Did you literally ask the killer if he brought it to be toxic? Because people lie and troll on the internet, I don't know if you know this, but..
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He plays basement bubba sometimes, because people want him to and has a series where he exposes toxic streamers who tell others to commit no life. If that is problematic then i don't know what to say.
He actually helped Mathew santoro and snapped him out of his rage.
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Really? Apart for some lame moris like trapper or wraith, I would prefer to be killed in cool fashion than just be thrown at a gross rusty meat hook like a piece of pork for the third time.
Also while some killers may do it to be "toxic", 99% of them are doing it for daily ritual
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The killer threatened to tunnel me out of the next match they see me in because I did not farm with them. The very next match it was the same killer and played a mori. They found me early, camped me and allowed a survivor to unhook me at 2nd stage to try to mori me. I didn't give them the pleasure. They said in the chat after that match "thats what you get. toxic time!" following up on what they said they would do to me in the previous match. So yes, in this case the mori was used with the intent to bully and harass me.
The point I was making before is that a mori can easily be taken the wrong way because it is a completely unnecessary thing. I know not everyone sees them this way. If survivors could do something to the killer on the same scale as a mori I'd probably feel different about them. After all, the good guys in horror stories often end up killing the killer. I've never been mori'd and thought to myself "wow this is cool I want to see it again." If anything moris have been a deterrent for me. Back in the day when they only required 1 hook I was very critical of them and nearly quit the game entirely because I was sick of getting mori'd all the time.
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Yep. I imagine there are killer mains that don't even use them at all. For whatever reason the killer uses one the point I was making is that they can easily feel like bullying just because of the fact they are unnecessary to win.
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When i play as a killer i mostly play my games as a hide and seek game with survivors. It can be funny in most cases but annoying in some games.
I am not looking to get all survivors or not, as long i have a good hide and seek game with them.
If i lose i lose and if i win, i win. :)
But getting swarmed by flashlight is so bad for me, get naustic (or whatever you spell it, English is not my main languge) and feeling sick after that game when i notice survivors have flashlights. No, i don't have lightborn yet.
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I love how the dbd community throws around the word bullying to make entirely mediocre actions seem like literal crimes.
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That was an almost once in a lifetime occurrence though, you have to assume alot to chose to believe every killer playing a Mori is doing it with the intention of being toxic, specifically because again, it's almost meaningless now.
It actively hurts the killer in the scoring category and it works against many perks that rely on hooks, and if anything survivors DCing to deny killers the final hook, be it for BBQ or scourge hook value, etc. That's just as toxic (if not more so) than the killer bringing a Mori and specifically coordinating a scenario (in which they had to enlist the services of another survivor player, btw) in order to use it on you. Funnily enough, the only counter to a survivor who DC's for that reason IS to already have had the plan of mori'ing every survivor in the end, that's practically it's one benefit because I think you do get more points for the Mori than simply the survivor DCing and no Mori.
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That is the whole point of the subject of this thread. Assumptions. Unless someone openly admits why they did anything in the game, all we can do is assume. It is interesting to talk about the different view points people may have about the things that happen within a match and why people do them. I've seen just about every take you can imagine in the post game chat between survivors and a killer that used a mori. I can tell from my experience there are a lot of mixed views on them. Some people don't care whereas others completely hate them.
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Fair enough
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I like being on the receiiving end of a Mori. I just wish killers could stop doing them in places where my camera clips through a wall and I can't see it.
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There are daily rituals and achievements that require moris. The daily ritual reward for a Mori is 60K as opposed to 30K.
I like the animation on some of them myself (Twins with Victor attached, Pyramidhead's full mori, Demogorgon, Artist and Pinhead for example). I just wish the animations wouldn't clip out at times.
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I've only ever brought a mori to do the daily ritual of killing a survivor with your own hand. Otherwise, I don't run anything else besides bloodpoint offerings to help finish the grind.
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I think it's about mind set. It would be a lie for me to say I've never been tilted over this game. A good SWF against my not so good killer skills feels bad man. I just want to have fun though, and if I'm not, I log off and go do something else. DBD makes me laugh a lot, for better or worse, lol. I can 100% see how someone could feel bullied though, but you've gotta remember it's just a game, even if it's a game you've put a lot of time and care into.
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I personally use them randomly and usually forget I used one while in game until it's displayed on a downed survivor
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The only false words in your post are that you suck at getting your point across. That was short, sweet and to the point.
To add, I used to get really mad at survs for doing stuff like that, until i started playing a bit of surv. I'm much less aggro now bc i understand the opponents POV. Now whenever i get a bit tilted from a match of killer i just play a round of stupid perk combo surv.
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