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Gate escapes should be zero MMR points if all the gens aren’t done
Gate escapes should be zero MMR points for the survivor if all the generators aren’t done yet.
The reason is because hatch escapes are already zero MMR points for the survivor, and if a survivor escapes through the gates before all the generators are done, they were only able to get through the gate because the killer found and closed the hatch. This means that gate escape was a 2nd chance escape, just like the hatch, and shouldn’t be counted as an MMR win for the survivor.
Comments
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I'd argue that surviving to get the gates open after the hatch has closed at least involves some skill depending on map and gate spawn. Shouldn't award many and the killer shouldn't lose any but it definitely shouldn't give nothing.
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Im ok with it one way or another but who actually cares about mmr when escaping like this?
All I see is 5000 BP
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Some skill ? Yes hiding in the corner with spin chill by the gate as killer does hatch to then do the stupidly short 20 seconds power to then tag out is skill..... I thinck if hatch is done before gens the survivor should die end off, you faild your gens, you faild as everyone's dead, and you faild to find your hatch escape that's 3 ways you messed up how many more chances you want ? Killer don't get any second or third chances unless he takes perks In a way
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If the hatch is closed the EGC is trigged, so it's impossible for the survivor to finish the gens, and the killer failed to kill this survivor so why should they get the kill for free ? Unless you don't want the hatch to trigger the EGC, in which case the end-game would be super long and tedious with killers slugging the last two survivors and survivors being able to take the game hostage by simply not doing the gens after the hatch is closed.
Also, why do you care how ppl get MMR? A survivor managing to open the gate and escape already takes more skill than facecamping, but killers who do this get MMR points.
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Maybe it would be a better suggestion that the last survivor is always zero MMR points for the killer, regardless if they die or escape?
Currently, if I want to increase my MMR or grade, I’m absolutely encouraged to slug for the 4k. That 4th survivor is still worth MMR points and grade emblem points. Imagine if BHVR made the 4th survivor always worth zero points for the killer, so that the killer isn’t punished if they aren’t slugging for the 4k.
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I mean hatch escapes are already neutral for both the survivor and the killer, because it comes down to luck. However a survivor escaping through the gates implies they've spent 20s opening it without the killer finding them even tho they had only 2 gates to patrol (granted, it can be very easy or much harder depending on the killer and the map), so I don't mind if it counts.
If the fourth survivor didn't count, the killers wouldn't be rewarded for not slugging and wouldn't be rewarded for getting a 4k. Also, survivors might be more likely (in solo q at least) to sandbag their teammate and work with the killer.
Regarding slugging, ppl aren't going to stop doing it bc the last survivor doesn't count for MMR, as the last kill would still bring bps and many killers are only playing to get 4ks.
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Why do you care whether the other players MMR goes up or down? Worry about your own MMR.
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Why?
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Why do you want this?
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Absolutely not. Because MMR only grades Escapes vs Death. You only want this because you're salty you got left on a hook during a 2v1, or you're salty about not getting a 4k and 1 survivor gets the hatch on you all the time.
Honestly? You should have stopped caring about MMR a while ago. I, like thousands of others, just want BP. Higher grade/rank means more sweaty games. I'll gladly die and keep myself mid/low. Ive been Iri1. No thank you.
Why wanting BP over MMR? its about 1.6mil from 0-50 for 1 character. 7 million to P0 all perks for 1 character. 21mil+ to P3 max perk one character.
29 Survivors
26 Killers
55 characters(as of this post) x 7m = over 385,000,000 BP if you want to max perk all characters... x3 if you want to P3 everything. The amount of BP needed is absolutely staggering and is quite a determent from playing regularly. People see the grind after a while and jump ship. With all of DBD's problems, people can only guess as to why the game has more sales and free weekends than most games on the market lol
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I'm okay with both of these. I can't decide which one I like better.
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Why does a survivors mmr matter to you?
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I'd argue this is a much better solution.
"some skill depending on map and gate spawn"
Getting a gate to 24% on Suffocation Pit while both gates spawn on the same side of the map and the killer can patrol easily is far more skillful than camping a gate on Mother's Dwelling when the other is diagonally across the map and just waiting for the killer to leave.
Hatch is a necessary evil due to solo queue and hostage situations.
Post edited by Mandy on3 -
I feel it needs to be reminded again and again that higher/lower MMR are not rewards or punishments. They're solely intended to try and make sure your matches are fun.
If your matches are close, as is the goal of MMR, you should actually get more pips not less! If a survivor team absolutely runs the killer for 5 gens and not a single hook goes by, they get no altruism and probably not a good mix of the other emblems so they don't pip. If a killer doesn't hook anyone or hooks everyone too fast, they also don't get enough emblem points to pip. You get your highest pips from close games.
Also, with MMR, one match really isn't going to be that significant in changing your MMR. At the beginning of playing, your MMR will probably fluctuate a lot. As it gets more history about your results, each individual match will end up moving the dial only a small amount.
I agree with the premise of the thread. If someone escapes through the gate after the hatch is closed and the generators aren't done, it should be counted the same as the hatch as a NULL. But, this isn't because I don't want killers to be "punished" or survivors not to be "rewarded". I think it's because escaping through the gates after hatch is closed is close to a 50/50 and more dependent on the gate spawns than anything a player does. I don't have this data, but I suspect that you don't see people at high MMR with more gate exits after hatch is closed than people with lower MMR.
I've had gate spawns that are capable of being seen by standing in one spot. This type of spawn is literally impossible to escape from without a key to get hatch. I've also had spawns where they were across the map from each other with many line of sight blockers. This is mostly 50/50 if I guess where they were correctly. The situation is very similar to hatch.
I also sometimes want to give the last survivor hatch, but I don't want to wait for them to find hatch. If I find it first, I'll close the hatch to trigger EGC which forces them to the gate and then I let them out through the gate. I like that interaction, but I don't want the game to think, "Well you beat that killer so let's throw you into a harder match!" Seems unfair to them.
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Worrying about my own MMR means I absolutely should be trying to slug for the 4k as much as possible. A killer’s MMR shouldn’t go down when a survivor gets a second second-chance pity escape.
If the last survivor was always worth zero MMR points for both sides, then killers could play competitively without sweating for the 4k. This would also be a nerf to face camping. If a killer is face camping a survivor at the end of the game, and the other survivors leave the game, then the face camped survivor won’t lose MMR, and the killer won’t gain MMR for the facecamped survivor.
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Why are you so worried about playing at a high MMR as killer?
It makes a difference as a survivor since you want to paired up with good teammates. I don't see any real benefit to playing at high MMR as killer unless you really enjoy sweaty games.
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Isnt it harder to get a gate escape at that point though?
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It is much harder to escape through the exit gates than hatch tho.
With hatch, no one has any idea where it is and it's automatically open.
With exit gates the killer always sees their exact location and depending on the map, they can be extremely close together, making it easy to spot the red light or survivor, it takes time to open, the survivor has limited time to escape because of EGC, it makes a loud beeping sound and gives off a bright red light that you'll be able to spot in the distance.
So if the survivor manages to escape through the exit gates after the hatch is closed, I feel like it's fair enough. Often times when I close hatch, survivors will not be able to escape, so if they do make it I feel like it's fair that they get their mmr up.
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I honestly think hatch escapes should give MMR to Killers and remove MMR from Survivors. The Killer has won at that point.
Gate I would say is different. It takes a lot of skill for a survivor to get the gate.
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If hatch escapes give the killer more MMR then post-hatch gate escapes, then the optimal play is that if the gates aren’t easily patrolled, that the killer refuses to close the hatch, because guaranteeing zero MMR is better than risking the loss of MMR.
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I'm more interested in knowing how a survivor got the gate open after the hatch was closed because I've only ever done this maybe 10 times before. Its very risky.
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Some of the maps have exit gates that can't be patrolled well at all (like RPD). Others can sometimes have gates that are in line of sight, but are so far apart that Nurse often has to rely on whether or not she sees any lights on an exit gate. On those maps, a survivor will try to 24% a gate (exit lights don't start until 25%), wait for Nurse to patrol away from them, then try to finish the gate and leave. This has happened to me often enough since SBMM started, that if I know the gates are too far apart, then I'd rather just let the survivor escape through the hatch since it's SBMM neutral.
A few times I've even had a survivor 24% a gate, wait for me to patrol away from them, then tap the gate so it's 25%, and immediately run away from the gate, so they can try to bait me into searching that gate long enough for them to sneak to the other gate, open that gate, and escape.
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Disagree getting a gate escape at that point is skillful to a point especially with extremely close doors
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Just a side note that the devs already mentioned they are working on changing MMR so it goes up or down for survivors as a group versus individually. If that goes into effect the question of whether or not the last survivor’s MMR should depend on if they go out the gate or hatch would be moot.
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Because this is a PvP game, and being interested in how the ranking system works in a PvP game is a normal thing.
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The MMR system needs to be overhauled as is - this change doesn't do much.
I would say, a gate escape takes a lot of skill from survivors - but it's such a narrow line, I'd say that both killer and survivor should earn MMR from the interaction.
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I think something should be done, so we never have a situation where there is an MMR hatch standoff, where neither side wants to interact with the hatch. On maps like RPD, it’s too difficult to patrol the exit gates as killer so I want the survivor to get hatch since it’s MMR neutral. But as survivor I don’t want the hatch on RPD because I think there is a decent chance I could make it through an exit gate if the killer closes the hatch.
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I’m good with this. I don’t really have a reason to want higher MMR anyways, but also because it would dissuade someone from stealthing it out for a solo escape just for higher MMR.
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I totally get it.
In reality - there should be a system that is mutually rewarding and is simple, yet robust enough to benefit the killer for displaying skill in killing all survivors and closing the hatch, while also rewarding the survivor for evading the killer and surviving the trial.
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Sure, make escape after hatch closed 0 MMR points for both sides but also have the survivors dying to EGC instead of being hooked for sacrifice or mori'd be 0 MMR points for both sides too since the killer didn't kill them, time just ran out.
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By the same logic, kills shouldnt count before (2 + number of dead survivors )gens are done. If a killer manages to kill one or multiple survivors before they managed to do a decent amount of gens, it means matchmaking gave him an easy match against unskilled survivors, and that shouldnt count as an mmr win.
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It leaves a giant hole in MMR...regardless of the BP....it leaves a GIANT HOLE IN MMR!
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I don’t agree with this. Like someone said on the previous page, it usually does take some tact to get one of the gates fully opened on a killer who closed hatch. That, and a little bit of luck. It goes both ways- sometimes there’s a hill where the killer can stand and get a clear view of both exit gates, and sometimes both gates end up on the same wall a few feet down from each other. Then you have killers like Trapper, Hag, & Twins, who can force survivors to reveal their location early. There’s alway “No Way Out” to make sure they don’t get out. If someone had 3 potatoe teammates, lost the hatch to RnG, and managed to finesse the exit gate open, then they deserve to get a W for their troubles. Well, that’s just my opinion anyway. This is coming from a solo que survivor main, so yea there is some bias. 😆
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