So, now that The Dredge (Literally Onryo 2.0) is releasing, will Onryo finally get some love ?
The Onryo is by far the weakest killer released in recent years and one of the weakest killers in the game overall, and now with The Dredge right around the corner, what little reason there was to play her will disappear completely, in her current state, there is literally no reason to pick her over our lovely newcomer Lockerboy, ever.
I'll skip over the part about how, personally, I'm honestly pretty disappointed that BHVR designed such similar killers and released them back to back like this, because it doesn't really matter now, does it ?
The Onryo needs some love. Be it by giving her some unique properties like passing through pallets and breakable walls while demanifested, or by making Condemnation an actual mechanic, something needs to be done.
To you guys, how would you like to see The Onryo buffed ? I'm sure there are plenty other ways to change her substantially than the aforementioned one, so I'd love to hear what you all think ! (Regardless, I think fixing Condemnation is a must, personally. Having a mechanic that literally does nothing 90% of games is beyond underwhelming)
And to BHVR, It'd be lovely to hear what you think about The Onryo, how she performs and whether you're planning to change her at all
Thanks in advance for all the replies !
Comments
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I still don't really agree that Dredge is like an Onryo 2.0. They both have a teleport ability that helps them traverse the map, but other than that, Dredge is pretty different compared to Onryo. Even their teleport abilities are fairly different.
But I do agree that she really needs some buffs. However, I would rather have them buff her map pressure and passive slowdown more, and not give her some form of anti-loop.
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I agree, sadako doesn't necessarily need an anti-loop to be good.
Her problem is that she is basically bad at everything she does. Her teleport is bad, her stealth is bad and her slowdown is bad.
if she was good at the things she was supposed to do l think she would be a decent killer.
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All the more reason to look forward to her mid chapter update whenever it comes, i know i do.
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I think you described it perfectly. When thinking about the whole phasing through pallet things I was thinking mostly about unique flair, but now that I think of it it would basically be just anti-loop. With Dead Hard rework incoming, she would definitely be decent if they buffed the things you said, which is her ... Everything. But still, yeah, just buffs could be enough.
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Sadako is definitely not the "weakest killer in the game", she's basically in the same bracket as Wraith, so around 2 to 2 1/2 stars out of 5. Her map mobility alone makes her better than the killers who would actually be at the bottom of the list like Trapper and Meyers.
That said she hasn't had her first full balance pass yet, if I had to guess that will probably be the next mid-chapter. So who knows, maybe she'll get a bit of a buff this summer? 🤷♂️ I don't think she'll get a major revamp or anything though, she's mostly ok but a couple of small buffs couldn't hurt.
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Yeah they're exactly the same if you stop describing their powers after you say "They both teleport."
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Pretty much. I would argue her teleport is ok, but that 100 second cooldown is really rough. And ok map pressure simply can't make up for the lack of anti-loop.
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Condemnation needs to be a threat.
While phased she should:
1) have no lullaby
2) be able to walk through pallets and breakable walls, and thus not be able to be pallet stunned while phased
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Maybe when teleporting she could add more condemn than it is now, maybe 1/3 or half making the survivor do a tape if they don't want fully condemned. Not much else I can think of but I hope she does get some love, I prestiged her so I'd love to show off my bloody outfit lol
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I absolutely disagree on her not being one of the weakest. While someone like Trapper and Myers have no mobility and overall suck, they both at least have the possibility of snowballing hard and turning a game around with a few good traps or a single good use of tier 3. Not to say they're not bad, but they both can at least sometimes become extremely deadly (Mostly due to survivor's mistakes, but still). Onryo on the other hand has none of that, she's as mediocre as they come with no way to do anything special, since her condemnation doesn't exist 90% of the time.
About the balance pass, yeah the next mid-chapter seems most likely, but I'm a bit worried BHVR may think she's fine as is, since they haven't mentioned anything about her and their next mini-rework is going to be Twins.
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Old Newspaper basekit, condemnation being more punishing and reducing the cooldown for the TVs to 45 seconds.
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Dunno how your don't see the comparison. Dredge has the best part of onryo's power except it's far less restrictive and can be used freely. Her stealth may as well not be there considering that she has a lullaby for whatever God awful reason.
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Sadako can definitely snowball due to her map mobility alone. Condemnation is just a bonus that can get survivors off the gens a bit, her teleporting and stealth are the main parts of her kit.
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Made a post a while ago with the changes I think Sadako needs.
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Well yeah as I said, I do understand the comparison, both have teleport abilties. But that's it. That's the similarity. There are a lot of differences as wel.
Just because two killers share the same base mechanic as one of their main abilities doesn't mean they are almost a clone of each other.
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She should have less powerful version of her iri add on base kit. Hit a survivour and your rewarded with additional tvs activating. Its baffling how restrained there killer design is.
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Because updates come out slowly and they feared making a decent Killer that the community would whine about.
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probably not, artist didnt get anything not even addon adjustments since shes been out, when normally they adjust killers like 3 months ish after release the last few years.
she is a lot better than people give her credit for, but she does need some love in a lot of areas. she suffers from the trickster problem, in which since most of power is recycled from other killers. it makes it hard for her to excel in anything, because anything they both do, the other killers in their respect class can do better.
- her stealth is bad as she has very loud sound cues.
- her anti loop is non existent in the current dh meta.
- her "slowdown" is a non factor.
- her tp is her only thing that she going for her, but even that is getting outshined with dredge coming out.
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Trapper is not worse than Sadako, I don't get why anyone says this. He has a stop in your tracks momentum shifting power, Sadako had to play 4D chess and pray to get the kind of value out of her kit the Trapper gets for essentially free at times. There are literally exist no-escape scenarios against Trapper, while for Sadako that is almost never the case until you're down to 2 survivors.
For what it's worth, I also heavily disagree that Wraith is better than Trapper. The two killers that operate on survivors making mistakes the most HAVE to be THE worst, even if there are plenty of games of survivors making mistakes.
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Letting her walk through pallets would literally be anti-loop, and it would just encourage survivors to Hold W.
It really is baffling that they make these add-ons that just feel like they should be basekit. A less powerful version of Iri Videotape should definitely be basekit, along with Telephone.
Maybe it's just me, but manifestation feels like it should be a chase power rather than a stealth power.
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Condemn is one of those things you have to be very careful balancing. Most of the time it does nothing, but with the right addons, if you hit a group that is a little lax vs her, you can absolutely destroy them with it. I had a couple games back to back that got me 5 condemn kills between the two. It's absolutely awful for BP gain though. Definitely think that it can use some big buffs, but the mori needs to be pushed to dead on hook only.
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So they dont want to sell the chapter? That just dosent add up. Its really frustrating and i often wonder how many players would have stuck around if nemsis and onryo actually delivered on there character. The only recent killer I felt they really landed was pinhead and there was way more risks taken with his powerset.
The resi chapter might have increased the player base but the sheer drop off has to be more then just natural player decay. I keep bamging this drum and i know some people are concerend but iuch rather dbd take big risks on both sides then let the creativitty of the game stagnate around the same tripe chase mechanics.
Why do we no longer see designs like myers. Instakill moris, permenant wallhacks jumpscare mode. There are so mamy add ons that apply badic crap like hemorage oblivious and even exposed. The most annoying thing a game can do is be bland and it feels like i could predict a killers add ons with near 100% accuracy.
Why have we seen no new survivor items. Dusters to apply a stun, molotov cocktails to block a path, caltrops to reduce the killer movement. Flashbangs were an amazing addition for instance.
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Nobody plays perfectly, mistakes always happen, so it's not a question of "if" they happen but how often and how much the mistake costs. Assuming you're against some idealized set of error free opponents isn't realistic.
Also Sadako's map mobility alone makes her better than Trapper. The ability to put pressure anywhere on the map pretty much at will isn't something to be underestimated. In particular she's a very good slugger because of map presence since she can very quickly move from one down straight into a new chase at another generator, especially if she's using the Green add-on which makes survivors who heal or revive each other gain Condemned stacks.
I don't know if Trapper is literally the worst killer, but his lack of mobility and slow early game definitely hurt him which is why he's commonly in the bottom bracket on tier lists. Yeah he can potentially set up a good late game if he gets the chance, but he might not get that chance is the problem.
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No matter what general opinion is, compared to Turkey-man, but I could say, I inadvertantly started to main Sadako and even missed the point when and how.
She is really perk dependant, has zero looping powers, TV spawns most of the time terrible, TV recovery time is abhorent, curse mechanic is almost useless. But, man, doesn't she fun to play? Can't put into words how I enjoy playing her, she is so neat and satisfying, don't know what to say about why is that.
I hope she'll get some love from devs. Either boost here curse value, either remove TV cooldown, or remove speed penalty from manifest/demanifest. She's too good to be at bottom tier.
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I don't think I posted about it, but a way to buff condemned: make tv's that are turned on build up condemned to survivors around them how the videotape does when you hold it.
Maybe the build up would need to be slower than when holding the tape, but it sure will increase the survivors interactions with tv's.
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"That doesnt add up." Believe me when I say that this is how this community works, I've had my eye on here for a long while and I've seen how it works. People care more about (the community's idea of) "bAlAnCe" than selling chapters.
We also no longer see fun add-ons like Myers because of developer laziness, them being scared to make strong add-ons (people complain about these endlessly, any add-on that has an effect = OP) and, now, the community. The instakill moris are now on the community's chopping block because now it's, and I quote, "not fair for a single survivor to be punished because of other survivors mistakes" (which is absolutely the wrong mindset to be having in DBD).
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Onryo really just needs number and QoL tweaks, she’s actually quite well designed, just not very strong. Easy fixes would be reducing the time TV’s are off (and maybe add a time where survivors are unable to gain extra condemned if it becomes problematic), remove or reduce the speed penalty while manifesting and make the manifestation intermitten visibility better and you’ve probably got a decent killer right here.
sincerely, an Onryo main.
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she still has to phase/unphase, so it's not that strong, and it can't cover multiple angles of approach like Artist. not as strong as Pyramidhead, Huntress, Slinger, and others with anti-loop abilities, but plays into her uniqueness.
so no, i don't think it's too strong nor unreasonable, nor would overly encourage W play.
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That's the issue with most licensed killers,BHVR tries to stick to the source material and it ends up making the killer extremely weak and worthless.
Pyramid Head,Pinhead and BOOBA are somewhat menacing the others are kinda bad in comparison.
They will probably follow the same pattern for the next licensed chapter the Killer is gonna be very mehhh but at least accurate to the source material.
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If you as a team let a sadako down two of you and snowball the match ill bet a trapless trapper would 4k that team too, looping an m1 killer as a good survivor should take a minimum of 60 seconds.
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Sadako is a Stealth killer who can teleport at will, part of her strength is catching players in hits before they have a chance to get to a stronger area.
Also I think you’re overestimating how long it takes to get a hit or a pallet drop once a chase starts. Typically the average time is about 20-30 seconds from when the chase music begins and either the killer gets a hit or forces a pallet. If a killer takes 60 seconds to get a hit or drop on most chases that’s a killer who’s playing badly.
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First off I think we have a misunderstanding, I meat 60 seconds from start of chase music to the survivor going down.
Secondly, how on earth does any sentient being get surprised by sadako?, she plays a lullaby when near so you expect her, and if she tps she has a loud af and directional indicator, you have to be listening to music or doing something else for that killer to catch you off guard.
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Onryo is one of those killers that needs a huge buff, people have typed out pages of ideas regarding how to do it - but the devs don't really consider her a priority. And now with the huge rework, there are even more things ahead of her in the queue.
I'd bet a box of donuts that we don't see any Onryo buffs until next year, if ever - and that if we do, it'll be along the lines of the Pig 'rework', basically just tweaking a few addons. Hell, it could even be another Twins situation, where all they do is nerf the essential brown addon she has because 'it gets used too much'.
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Regarding her Stealth, you know she’s in the general area from the lullaby but not necessarily where she is since she’s on and off invisible, has no stain, the lullaby is non-directional and she has a low profile so gets better blocking of line of sight from objects. I agree though that I don’t get why she has a Lullaby at all. 🤷♂️ She’s the only Stealth killer that has one.
As far as time between when a chase begins and a down, I could see 60 seconds being the average if you commit to chasing a single healthy survivor from start to finish. That’s not necessarily the best play though a lot of the time, knowing when to hit and run versus stay on the same survivor is really important, especially with a killer like Sadako that has the map mobility to do hit and run tactics. The better strategy with her is to keep looking for opportunities for quick hits on out of position survivors to keep up the pressure so the net time for a down on a given survivor is less than that 60 second average.
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You provide good advice however if a survivor has any knowledge of the game id bet they wont let sadako get any downs without looping her a lot first, even if you hit and run dh is there still, or CoH also can dunk on you, so they have the tools to absolutely trash her, why not use them?
And stealth wise I mean the flickering is pretty meh, when you see a single flicker you already know where she is so there goes the stealth, and if you hear the lullaby you will just be on the lookout for her so a surprise attack is out of the table.
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The problem for me playing her hit n run is you will not beat even a garden variety SWF with that. Her TV spawns are too unreliable (like spawning on the inside of a LT wall, but facing the outside of the loop, or say spawning on the second floor near a gen that's actually on the first floor) to consistently make plays off of, while they can occasionally be useful in chase as a cut off, because your locked into an animation and the survivors all across the map know you TP'd, it feels like you're often at a much greater disadvantage for even bothering to use it to cut off smart survivors, as they basically have to be asleep near a TV for it to catch them off gaurd.
You can't even adjust your camera in time most of the time to take advantage of your well timed TP because sometimes your just looking at a wall, and by the time you can turn the Survivor who heard you TP just got 30 seconds of distance from you, and now you want to start slugging?
She needs a specific set of perks and add-ons to be viable. Currently, there are maybe 3 or 4 killers who rely on one or two perks, or one or two add ONS maybe. With Sadako, it feels like if you don't have the healing condemned add on and the TV reset add on, as well as at least one, if not two, chasing perks, you just break pallets and get 2-3 hooks all game.
Mind you, I am a GF main..I play killers I suck with or that are considered to be bad almost exclusively. No one in this entire forum seems to think Sadako is fine as she is, and is just hidden potential, except you. Sometimes, the majority is just right about something.
I mean this all in the most respectful terms.
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I’ve said multiple times I think Sadako is on par with Wraith, she’s 2 out of 5 or maybe 2.5 out of 5 stars. For reference Otz also has her at 2 out of 5 stars next to Wraith on his tier list, so if I’m in agreement on his placement I’m pretty sure I’m in agreement with a lot of other people too.
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Yeah but many of those people are in agreement SOLELY because this is otz, not because they have the knowledge, or even interest, to rank killers. He said pre-buff Legion is top of C tier which was absolutely ludicrous to me, as in my opinion he was absolutely the worst killer in the game, maybe tied with Pig.
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I can’t speak to Otz’s opinions on specific killers, I’m not inclined to watch an entire two hour video where he details his thoughts on everybody. I’m just saying that if Otz and I independently rank Sadako as 2 out of 5 in the same bracket as Wraith then it’s very likely a lot of others have similar rankings.
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