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Gotta love how every killer since Pinhead basically has no counter.

2

Comments

  • Xendritch
    Xendritch Member Posts: 1,842

    Lol

  • Viskod
    Viskod Member Posts: 854

    Now now, don't forget that she can get rid of per power all on her own just by teleporting to a tv and turning it off for a ridiculously stupid amount of time all on her own.

  • Icaurs
    Icaurs Member Posts: 542

    I find the dredge to be quite manageable at the moment. That may change is he is still very early on and killers are yet to perfect him.

    Are you struggling with the remnant?

    I find it is more effective to take a hit and commit to a single direction, rather then trying to loop him. He is at his strongest at TL walls IMO. Don't lock lockers at the start, wait until the mid point or late game then start locking them, you will find it more effective.

    As for nightfall, it is undeniably hard to beat him and you should accept that if he is chasing you, yes you will likely go down. But even just "shift w" you should last most of if not all of nightfall. All in all I find him to be B-C tier.

    In summary, I cannot understand why you have not been able to beat him once in two days. In theory you should have. The only answer I can think of is your teammates are not good and are wasting time. If so that reflects more on them, then the killer.

  • Sepex
    Sepex Member Posts: 1,451

    So you'd rather they just keep pumping out weak M1 killers that can't do anything and have to walk everywhere?

  • Tsulan
    Tsulan Member Posts: 15,095

    It reminds me of the old darkest moonlight offerings. Where the maps where so pitch black. That you couldn´t see a survivor, even when he was standing right in front of you.

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,713

    Just to clarify

    • He’s the same speed as all the other standard killers (4.6 m/s). His teleport is slower during the day but still much faster than running so is still very good for map mobility.
    • Locking the lockers does waste a bit of his time but not a huge amount, even with breaking a locked locker he still spends way less time crossing the map then if he walked there normally.
    • He’s a bit better than a basic attack powerless killer in a chase because of the occasional anti-loop he gets from the Remnant.

    Right now I’m putting him as potentially A Tier. I don’t think his chase are quite good enough to be at Nurse or Blight level but his mobility alone makes him really good and then you pair that with being boosted in Nightfall half the match and he’s looking pretty solid.

  • Tostapane
    Tostapane Member Posts: 1,664

    (score down the text a bit and you'll find that I did another answer where I specified that his power overall became faster) He's on par with sadako for being the worst killer in the game right now... His antiloop is hilarious from a survivor perspective (it's sufficient holding w shift to kept him busy) and his teleport start to become useful only in nightfall mode... This killer is a joke right now

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752
    edited June 2022

    I agree, except for Sadako. Sadako was about average. I started using her as a main and was having fun using her, then Dredge came out. Dredge basically nuked Sadako from orbit. Dredge's kit is so freaking overloaded it has made me switch back to mostly killer. I almost switched back to purely killer with Blight because he's easy mode but it was boring because he requires no skill. Dredge is skill intensive but no where near as bad as Nurse, yet he's very close to Blight in kill potential.

    I also main Pinhead and he's a nightmare to for survivors to play against because you need an SWF to beat him. lol.

  • EvilSerje
    EvilSerje Member Posts: 1,070


    Started to play Sadako from release and unexpectedly began to main her hard. Love her very much, she is so enjoyable to play. But yeah, I agree with comments here, she is garbage. Not garbage by herself, she still can whoop som butts in the hands of skilled player. But in comparison to Dredge... I don't know. Objectively he has more powers than Onryo, no TP cooldown, undetectible mechanic, plus some minor antiloop. But, he is... clunky. Feels slow and cumbersome, not enjoyable. When choosing killer, I don't have any second thoughts since Onryo release. She feels... right.

    Message to devs: please, give Sadako some love. Double curse progression, increase TV's on the map, drasticly decrease TV cooldown time, or even all of that together.

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    I've always thought Sadako was fine. I liked her. I think Dredge is honestly overpowered and on the level of Blight. The problem is, Dredge is just a way way better version of Sadako, Freddy and Demogorgon. BHVR basically made all of those killers obsolete.

  • dugman
    dugman Member Posts: 9,713

    I think you’re wrong on both counts, Sadako isn’t the worst killer in the game (she’s on par with Wraith, about 2 out of 5 stars) and Dredge is significantly better than Sadako. But time will tell with Dredge, people are still getting used to both playing as and against it.

  • Patrick1088
    Patrick1088 Member Posts: 628

    It's a new killer thats been live for less than 48 hours. Survivors are still learning to play against him.

    He's a complicated killer to go against because you have 2 issues; transporting to lockers and Nightfall.

    Is not the transporting that's an issue (Sadako/Freddy did this and then Wraith/Spirit/Nurse can close the distance as well). Survivors aren't used to Nightfall and the PTB didn't showcase it properly.

    The one advantage that survivors have is 3rd person view, and it just got a whole lot weaker with Nightfall.

    I have been really enjoying the add on combo where Nightfall starts in the beginning and survivors are exposed last 12s. Pair it with Lethal Pursuer and I'm getting a down relatively quickly.

    Survivors will adapt (Spine Chill/Windows), but now i think a strong killer like Dredge is fun as it challenges Survivors more.

  • EntitySpawn
    EntitySpawn Member Posts: 4,233

    Havent lost verse a dredge yet

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,882

    That is honestly the problem with most killers. You know they are somewhere else or just used their power, so for the next 20 seconds nothing stops you from doing gens. Think about it, that goes for the rest of your team as well. In other words the Dredge is the first killer in quite a while that doesn't give you a break, constantly applying pressure.

  • CosmicParagon
    CosmicParagon Member Posts: 1,070

    Not saying you didn't play well, but that team is FAR from skilled. Any Killer can beat an uncoordinated team without too much issue

  • SMitchell8
    SMitchell8 Member Posts: 3,302

    Isn't the counter to every killer not to get found or caught? That's 2 types of counter play straight off the bat/hook

  • Brokenbones
    Brokenbones Member Posts: 5,207
    edited June 2022

    Artist has counterplay

    It's just very boring counterplay that doesn't take as much skill as traditional looping does.


    Here's a fun fact though, Dredge and Artist have something in common - their power is countered by another survivor getting involved in the chase. Another survivor can run through a crow to remove it and the same can be said of Dredge's remnant. Only difference is Artist can just place another crow right away but Dredge's power goes on cooldown


    Also it's early days, don't decry Dredge as having no counterplay when he just came out and people are still learning.

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    Of the 3 I mentioned, they're all better than Demogorgon. Freddy's better, Dredge is Blight level better and Sadako is even better. Demogorgon is only cute.

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623

    Freddy is really bad, I don't know how you can think he's anywhere near Demogorgon.


    Dedge is nowhere near Blight, he's not even A tier.

    He's lacking the consistent and quick mobility Blight has, aswell has any 1v1 potential.


    Onryō is low B high C tier, she has great mobility (still worse than Demogorgon's and Dredge's) but no 1v1 capabilities, nor is her Condemnation a real effect, so she really only has mobility.


    Demogorgon on the other hand has great mobility, great information and a potent chase tool, all of which get better with Add-Ons

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    Freddy is the best of the 3, because he has complete map mobility to any uncompleted generator he wants and he has an anti-loop ability.

    Sadako is next best, because she has near complete map mobility to any uncompleted gen she wants and has a secondary effect which slows down gen progress, the tapes.

    Demogorgon is worse. He has to setup before he has any map mobility. Has no slowdown potential and an ability to doesn't help in looping at all. Demogorgon is cute but Dredge is the best killer model of all the killers.

    ---

    Dredge isn't even in the same ballpark as those 3, in how good he is. He has map mobility to anywhere on the map. He has anti-loop ability. He has survivor detection ability. And he has built in undetectable during nightfall.

  • YOURFRIEND
    YOURFRIEND Member Posts: 3,389

    Great mobility is being able to teleport every 100 seconds assuming that no TVs have been turned off? Really?

  • MrPenguin
    MrPenguin Member Posts: 2,426
    edited June 2022

    Counter to Dredge: Leave the loop, hold W

    He's far from uncounterable, he's basically an M1 with limited teleport if you do the (easy) counter, which as we've seen with Sadako, doesn't make a good killer.

    He'll only be "good" against lower skilled survivors, like most of the roster.

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623

    Freddy is the worst of the 4, his mobility is heavily limited with a huge cooldown, no 1v4 and a 1v1 that is non-existant, due to the fact Freddy is slowed by an equal amount as the Survivors. If you're getting value out of it, you're facing bad Survivors.




    Sadako is the second worst of the 2. Her TV's are limited by a cooldown that's longer than an entire Generator by 20 seconds, and her Tapes don't exist. Survivors have to condemn themselves if you want to get value out of it.




    Dredge is the second best, it has good mobility, tho it is also somewhat limited, a 1v1 Power that's really only useful at unsafe tiles, and a good 1v4.




    Demogorgon is the best out of all the teleporting Killers.


    He has a good 1v1 Power that can be used at most tiles and also doubles as a mobility tool, can somewhat slide like a Blight hug tech, has Portals that double both as information and mobility, but also as passive slowdown, as Survivors have to close them to deny him his mobility

  • KhamuraTal
    KhamuraTal Member Posts: 42

    You know, even if I think the statement that 'Dredge is on the same tier as Blight' is fundamentally insane(Anyone even remotely familiar with Blight understands how a killer that effectively gets countered by heading into a Locker Deadzone does not compete with a fourth of his toolkit.) I at least agreed that he was better then Demo.

    The statement that Demogorgen is worse then Sadako or Freddy though is just...I can't man. No, a thousand times no, even the mere existence of Shred sends Sadako and Freddy to the shadowrealm at the bottom of D tier by comparison.

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752
    edited June 2022

    Ok, I am more that willing to admit I'm wrong if the data shows otherwise. So since there were so many people telling me I was wrong, I decided to check and see what the kill rates are for the 3 killers off the best DBD data aggregate site. (Hey DBD, you all should go ahead and just show the data). It has about 6,000+ games in the past 180 so days, so should be about the best source of data, outside of DBD actually releasing the data.

    Based on the data from the site, it shows Freddy as having the best kill rate, Sadako the next best and Demogorgon the worst. What's interesting is Sadako has a much higher 4k but her escape rate is much worse.

    With all the people telling me wrong, I figured that I was, but the data supports my opinion.


  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,904

    "No counter" to mean not countered by the same braindead mechanics as other M1 killers.

    You notice how when you can't run 6 times around the same rock, drop the pallet and then rinse repeat against a killer, then its suddenly un-counter-able.

    "I just want to loop in the same way and have that work effectively against everyone in the roster please."

    Followed by...

    "Why is DBD getting so boring?"

  • sonata93
    sonata93 Member Posts: 418

    Sadako for sure can be countered. Her stealth ability is a weaker version of Wraith's as she doesn't have that crazy speed boost when she uncloaks, and the TV's don't really do anything. Most survivors will deactivate the TV's so she can't teleport, build up their condemnation until the last minute, and then clear it before they become fully condemned. She has potential to be good, but her powers are just far too weak against the current meta.


    I do agree that the Dredge is very powerful. I consider myself a reasonably skilled survivor, yet in a lot of my matches, we seem to be getting stomped by it. It's counter-loop ability is quite easy to counter as you do exactly what you do with Artist: run to the next nearest loop/pallet/window when they slow down to place the remnant. The night power needs a nerf tho, in my opinion.

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    BTW, I'm not saying this is definite proof I'm right, it does support my opinion. It's from an data aggregate site, so there are probably something context you would have to assume, such as the players submitting the data are probably more seasoned and experienced players, since beginning players wouldn't have much use for a site like this, which probably indicates a higher level of MMR than what DBD has.

    The data is over 180 days and is between 6,000 to 12,000 games in that amount of time, based on what the site says. I do think the sample size is large enough to be significant.

  • Verconissp
    Verconissp Member Posts: 1,589

    I have NEVER lost against a Dredge, Wut,

    Stop assuming the killer is op and Git Gud,

  • xEmoGirlxAlexisx
    xEmoGirlxAlexisx Member Posts: 613

    Pinhead is easy to counter

    Sadako is Trash she doesnt even have a ability except her teleports

    Artist is strong but can be countered easy if u dont try to Loop her

    Dredge ( greatest killer ever and my new Main ) is kinda like Artist same weakness But he is weaker than her but has more mobility the only reason he gets alot 4k is that he is new and very unique Gameplay

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623
    edited June 2022

    Average kill rate or at high MMR? If it's an average kill rate, I don't care about it. Majority of the Survivor playerbase is bad at the game, them dying to M1 Killers doesn't surprise me.

    Don't forget that most Demogorgon players are meme lords too

    Post edited by ThatOneDemoPlayer on
  • KillerKiryu47
    KillerKiryu47 Member Posts: 41
    edited June 2022

    There was nobody trying to legitimately help. The most upvoted replies are insults and dismissive. Is it so wrong to treat them the same? The only flaw pointed out that I went back on is Sadako. Everything else still stands and nobody offers real advice or counterpoints. It's all just "you're bad", "they're easy to counter lol (doesn't explain how)", or "I have no problems. (Provides nothing of substance)" without one single reply trying to earnestly disprove my claim and either deviates or goalmoves.

    Post edited by Rizzo on
  • Carth
    Carth Member Posts: 1,182
    edited June 2022

    And yet killer kill rates have been dropping universally to ~50% since BHVR released stats, some killers were around 70% a few years back. The fact that you keep saying hit validation is not a buff is strange. It's a design choice that strengthens survivors, if generators get changed to take greater than 80 seconds is that not a buff to killers?

    Post edited by Rizzo on
  • CosmicParagon
    CosmicParagon Member Posts: 1,070

    Demogorgon is LEAGUES better than Sadako. He can place his portals wherever he wants, and survivors not only take longer to cleanse them but also are hit by Oblivious while doing so. He even gets solid anti-loop besides, which Sadako sorely lacks

  • Gwinty
    Gwinty Member Posts: 981
    edited June 2022

    Killrates are a difficult thing thou.

    Even on the side you used it shows that we once again should ask for nerfs to Pig. She has a 61,4% kill rate and that while only being picked 2,23%. That is higher than even the so called "best killer" in the game, aka Nurse, with 5,87% pickrate and only 51,54% killrate (perfectly balanced it seems)...

    Now aside from sarcasm: Kill rates are a joke as long as you do not know certain variables. And those are player skill on both sides. Going just by the killrate any killer with below 49,29% killrate (the average) should get a buff. However then you see what monsters are lurking there and you can quickly understand that something is off about the data.

    Most killrates are highly susceptible to SoloQ issues (Pinhead), new survivors (Pig) or the people playing the Killer (Twins).

    Pinhead has a mechanic that is not that strong as soon as survivor organize a bit and know how to solve that cube. However as soon as they either let a chainhunt happen, try to solve the cube in Pinheads face (I had multiple instances of this as Pinhead) or just do not know how to solve it things go down, resulting in a 57% killrate for Pinhead.

    Pig is just a mechanic that new player can not deal with. A widely know issue. Even the best Pigs struggle quit a lot more that the average Blight player.

    And then there are some issues like Twins. They are quit powerful, I would argue for A tier but that is personal. However people are just not enjoying them and only bring them for challenges or memes. Serious Twin players however are quit strong. Yet their Killrate does not reflect it.

    As such my conclusion is that killrates are merely an indicator for things. A good database should at least add additional information about MMR or skill, DCs and perks used to get the usable results.

  • Munqaxus
    Munqaxus Member Posts: 2,752

    Only because Demogorgon is cute. He's like a puppy.

    The thing is, you still have to waste the time to go to where ever you want a portal and then waste the time to place it. Then if you placed a portal in a bad spot, you can't do anything about it.

    Freddy and Sadako teleport to any gen they want, right out of the box. No need for setup. And even though the time is longer on teleports, at least with Freddy, I've never had a problem with the amount of time in between. Sadako television times does seem longer than necessary but they also serve the purpose of wasting survivor times by either shutting them off or risking Sadako teleporting to them.

  • TheLastHook
    TheLastHook Member Posts: 495

    Sure the Trapper is OP and no counters and playing SWF in voice comms is all good.

    Give survis infinite Dead Hard then.

  • TheLastHook
    TheLastHook Member Posts: 495
  • TheLastHook
    TheLastHook Member Posts: 495

    Survivors in that video are either playing with you or terrible. Like...

  • ThatOneDemoPlayer
    ThatOneDemoPlayer Member Posts: 5,623

    "No need for set-up". This pretty much tells me you've never even played the Killers you're talking about.


    Freddy needs ~45 seconds at the start of The Trial to teleport, and then goes on a 10 second cooldown if he cancels it.


    Sadako requires 30 seconds for her TVs to turn on, and then they go on a 100 second cooldown after, or 60 seconds if a Survivor turns them off.


    Demogorgon requires ~15 seconds to set up either 2-4 Portals (or even just 1 Portal, which takes 1 second), at which point he already has ~1/3 of the Map covered in a web, forcing Survivors to seal his Portals, which is already more slowdown than Sadako can ever dream of

  • ACleverName4Me
    ACleverName4Me Member Posts: 450

    People are still trying to learn how to play as and against the dredge. Pinhead has built in slowdown and has great synergy with many perks. Artist and Dredge(and any killer even nurse and blight really) is counter by holding W.