Gen speeds needs to be discussed
Comments
-
Use corrupt invertion it's in shrine of secret that should slow down game a bit at least. But if gen speed would be slower than they are who would want to fix them like it's most boring part of the game as survivor. Camping and tunneling would be even more worth it also. But if survivors just gen rush you should tunnel one out and proxy camp.
0 -
The nurse does NOT ignore anything.
Her ability is based on phasing, you can still use pallets, you can still use the line of sight, skill hard etc.
Skilled survivors know how to use the above things and the time and place of when to use them for example when she blinks and she's about to swing after you've double-backed over a pallet loop and you throw the pallet on the swing, not the block.
Sounds like a user error problem.
1 -
If you want the game balanced around the extreme of Nurse, then the game also needs to be balanced around the extreme of comp SWF.
Fair is fair after all.
1 -
background and philosophy ARE boring. skip this one if you want.
I play survivor, for clarity, but allow me to put some of my insight into it.
The problem with generators may not only be the generators themselves, but it is a symptom of a much deeper problem that has been examined in multiple ways. One of which was, to make the maps smaller. If you can reduce the distance to travel between generators and the overall size of the map, it would improve map pressure for killers overall, allowing those who struggle in it to have a chance.
Now, let this be said I have no say on how some other killers are balanced. I am merely looking at the foundation of their kit here. A lot of people find the close/densely packed maps, like Dead Dawg, dreadful to play on. (This is anecdotal. You can disagree).
I think that the problem with the standardization of maps is that not all maps are equal in size.
For some, it can take 30 seconds to go from one side of the map to another, while others can be 20.
Factor in that, that is a B-Line and not going through any obstacles. And some killers can make up that difference with their abilities, but those who cannot fall behind. And they do indeed fall quite far. My point is, that there's a lot that can / is going wrong already, and pinpointing the exact cause is difficult.
The opinion; the thing you want to read:
I think there are two problems with DBD at the moment. Lacking killer map pressure (due to large map size or just no tools in the kit to deal), and lack of alternative objectives.
- The problem isn't survivors doing the objective, it's the distance between everything that is.
My idea, the thing that's incredibly rushed and not thought through (/ser):
- Use one of those Surveymonkey surveys to poll how survivors feel about maps, for all roles, gametime, and experiences.
- Use that data and pinpoint maps that are towards the middle. Then, use the maps that are polar ends of one another- one map that is extremely killer sided according to data, then survivor-sided to the other.
- Compare these, and make a visual update to a map that needs it, as well as a fleshed-out redesign. Do something similar to Badham, and make three instances- one having the traits of a killer-sided map, the other survivor sided, and one that sits in the middle, and rate satisfaction.
- If BHVR can identify a map that's 'good' by their standards, we can see more content like that. But since we don't know what their ideal perspective on each map is, (2 survivors dead minimum), it's hard to pinpoint what defines success.
- Alternative Idea: Find an peak sq. meterage that is in line with optimal performance for both sides, and standardize that number. Maybe 100-200 meters over, sure; but the point is, we can still do fun shapes-- we just have to work around the size so it is not too overbearing.
edit: added points and stuff. thinking is hard.
2 -
Even Nurse gets wrecked in "comp" DBD with her best addons/perks.
0 -
The 2 biggest problems with the game are the maps and the amount of safe tiles, and gen speeds.
No idea how people can defend gen speed continuously when 1 chase= 3 gens vs good survivors routinely. This is also caused by the safety of the maps where you cant do ######### if your not playing an S tier killer.
I've weaned off the game recently because of the gens popping so fast in a lot of my games. I'm a 2k hour killer. I know how to mindgame, pressure, and get downs. So I'm not trash and a lot of the games it doesn't matter because survivors objective is way to fast.
Gen speed is a massive culprit to camping. 3 gens done 1 hook, why go for more chase when you can camp and make them come to you. If they don't and decide to rush gens it is what it is.
5 -
Every second that the survivors give the killer by not doing game critical tasks (gens, cleansing hexes, etc) is activly hurting their chances of winning. The killer's biggest weapon in the game is time, the longer a game goes the better chances the killer has at winning. Survivors items run out, their perks turn off in some cases, generators revert.
If you want gens to be even slower then they are (and remember, they used to be a fair bit quicker then they are now) then there needs to be something done equally for the killer side, otherwise nerfing gens speeds is a straight up buff to every killer in the game (with the very minor exception of pig, possibly, but even then that is debatable).
1 -
The killer wants to tunnel someone out because it's the most effective way to win.
If the gens went slower, they'd STILL do it because they like winning, only it's even more effective now.
7 -
Except that you dont need to play extreme Nurse for her to be considered broken.
2 -
The devs are never going to do anything about the gen speeds. Just make a build that works towards furthering the goal of hard proxy camping/tunneling to get someone out of the game as fast as you can. Force altruism. Only way to get them off the gens. You lose very little points for doing this. I've won plenty of games where I 3 or 4k straight hard tunnelling the first guy out and end up wiht 26 - 28k points
0 -
Imagine thinking you can use a pallet against Nurse. LOL
You have obviously never played against a Nurse seeing as you think pallets are a counter to her power.
7 -
I don't understand why in 2022 people are still under this assumption that "If x/y/z happened killers would play nicer and not tunnel and camp".
Killers take advantage of what they can, even when scales are not against them.
7 -
Probably the same naive people that think survivors won't BM you or talk trash if you go for a 12 hook and never camp/tunnel losing yourself the game in the process while they hard split and slam gens in your face
6 -
Now that's what I like to hear +1
1 -
Oh I see what you mean
0 -
I believe they said in the anniversary stream they are looking into base game changes as well and I hope that is one of them. Gens definitely go way to quick, especially against people who know what they are doing. I'm worried that a change to speeds won't change much though as gen rushing will always be the most effective strategy to secure survivors an escape (and I can't fault them for that)
0 -
Gen speeds are the bone of the game. So much stuff was built around them. It would be insanely difficult to change gens speeds that would satsify everyone and make sure it doesnt break something.
Maps changing or a new slowdown mechanic could be introduced to combat this.
2 -
That's funny. The last match I played was over 4 mins and only one gen completed.
This is more of a problem of killer not applying pressure and not utilizing the vast number of perks and strategies available.
4 -
They would have to literally nerf a lot, if not all gen slow down perks in order to nerf their base speed.
Something which I believe they won’t do.
1 -
DS prevents tunneling? Sounds interesting. Tell me more!
I don´t use DS and only use BT, because some teammates have a urge to run straight into the killer. I´m having a above average escape rate without DS. So nope, as solo survivor i don´t feel forced to use DS.
0 -
Lets take a look into the past. Back when Undying was released. There were absolutely no threads about camping or tunneling killers on the forum. There where tons of "Undying Ruin OP, pls nerf" threads. But camping didn´t seem to be an issue. Why? Because a killer that wanted to get any benefit from Undying Ruin, had to constantly switch targets. He couldn´t camp or tunnel.
Now fast forward to the Undying nerf and suddenly the camping and tunneling threads are back.
What a surprise! Who would have guessed, that killers with enough time to actually play the game, would prefer longer matches?!
2 -
I would love hear your take on DBD on MrGimms' broadcast. I think you could really express yourself and show your points of view from the forums to the broadcast.
If you're nervous that's alright MrGimms is a very nice guy, he only teases around with the forums.
1 -
he's right.
I think too that the gen speed is too fast, but making it longer would be such a pain in the ass, sit there for 2 minutes doing nothing but skill checks, pretty boring.
if there's was a secondary objective, that would be a bit refreshing and make the game a bit longer
1 -
Gen speeds have been discussed, which slowed down the progress when multiple people are on the gen, also, if gens are getting done that quick in your games I suggest looking into different methods of applying gen pressure. That is not normal.
1 -
Corrupt Intervention needs to be basekit.
0 -
Well if u dont spawn on a gen you spawn next to his Hex so...
0 -
devs dont care about this. Been an issue forever and they've shot down attempts at fixing it and now ignore it. They probably think its fine. Which it isnt but if you fix survivor objective speeds. You then have to address tunneling and camping because they will be op if surv objective is increased.
THEN you have to deal with the gen slowdown perks and meta. They keep doubling down with the perks associated with the gens so those will have to be toned down or do something else.
My opinion, to much work for them. Thats why they are doubling down on the meta.
0 -
what happend to the early game things like collecting petrol/machine parts/tools first before you can work on gens etc?
didn't they talk about stuff like that? (some time ago)
1 -
That idea was scrapped.
0 -
Look at it this way:
>Survivors do Gens
>Killer brings slowdown perks to help them extend a match
>Survivors now concentrate on powering through gens with less interaction with the killer due to slowdown perks
>Killer now camps or tunnels due to no interaction with survivors before gens start popping
>Survivors now have no choice but to power through gens because saving against a camper or trying to distract a tunneler is a waste of time
2 -
Gen speeds aren't the issue, the issue is it takes forever for killers to do anything. THe Maps are enormous so they take forever to get anywhere. TP killers have obnoxiously long cooldowns. "Fast" move speed killers can only move slightly faster and that's their only power. M1 killers can't run, they walk painfully. Getting Myers out of Tier 1 is the biggest challenge any Myers player can have.
Do you see where i'm getting at? Everything killers do take so much time that it makes it look like gens fly super fast. Gens aren't the issue per se, it's everything else that a killer needs to worry about that keeps preventing killers from managing to keep pressure on gens.
Smaller Maps would solve about 75% of the problems...But we keep getting gigantic maps cluttered in the middle with op buildings while the gens are in the empty areas of the map, which breakes gameflow.
1 -
Are you under the actual belief that there was no camping or tunneling when Undying was released because killers were such good boys that they all just decided not to out of good sport for having such an overwhelmingly powerful perk?
Or are you just incredibly good at selective obliviousness?
5 -
Here lies the problem, the meta on both sides can be so efficient it renders almost any game variety mute.
I don’t just mean meta perks either but tactics as well. Splitting up on gens vs eliminating a player early via tunnelling.
If they are going to implement mechanics that prevent early player elimination then there needs to be mechanics that prevent survivors from smashing out one gen each at game start. Otherwise the gameplay will stay stagnant.
0 -
No, it's 80
2 -
The gen speeds are fine. See what happened was originally dbd had a focus on stealth. Survivors moved slower and matches took longer. Now killers find survivors in seconds due to the perks, and removal of darker lighting ect. Since survivors cannot stealth they do the objective.
Its the same reason why survivors rarely bother with sabo or body blocking. Its just not worth it. Thus survivors near exclusively do gens.
1 -
You can't be serious.
Camping and tunneling has been happening since the inception of the game.
Pretending like Undying fixed this is quite frankly one of the stupidest things I've ever heard.
6 -
That's hopefully what will be addressed with the upcoming perk update. Or I am just being too hopeful. I also don't want to have to use so many slowdown perks with killers.
0 -
Well, to play more than 4 minutes you better give survivors something to do, other than gens. Healing for example. Running only after one survivor and then facecamping him in hope that you have casual survivors that come to you as easy prey? That's more fun?
When I play survivor, I want to play a game that lasts more than 1 minute! Other time i either do skillchecks on gen or dangle on hook getting slapped.
Sadako main, btw (in case there would be suggestions like "ouf, you play nurse-blight, bla bla bla")
1 -
The amount of threads complaining about camping dropped significantly during that period. Go check yourself if you don't believe me.
0 -
Funnily enough, back then i had an argument with someone who claimed Undying ruin was giving out free wins for killers. He said that he prefers camping killers over doing totems all day.
I guess, wish granted.
0 -
Playing anything besides S-Tier or A-Tier killers in high MMR is just asking for trouble. I could literally do close to none mistakes and still loose as Clown/Myers/Freddy etc.
1 -
This content has been removed.
-
So I need to, what.. scan every post made from the time period old Undying was live, count how many times camping/tunneling were brought up, and compare that to.. any other period of time, I guess?
And you believe that's a valid method of determining whether or not the actual game population were camping/tunneling during that time period?
And not just that, you genuinely believe killers were such phenomenally good sports that they didn't camp or tunnel with old Undying, despite it making the strategy even stronger?
4 -
That's just false.
Original Undying was broken, and it only made tunneling and camping worse.
How? The minute Ruin and Undying were cleansed, the killer would hard camp and tunnel.
2 -
If you've checked every single original post and disregarded all of the replies cross referencing it with every other post made during that timeframe I suppose I'll have to take your word for it.
1 -
This is my least favorite thing about the forums, how can you just ignore everything they said just to get your dumb point across. Like do you really think he meant to act like you were playing against every other m1 killer to pallet stun them? Do you just drop pallets normally against the huntress or completely ignore pallets when you see a huntress? Well guess what skilled players can get stuns against killers with anti-pallet abilities, you don't go about them the same way as typical m1 killers though, but you probably don't know this seeing as how you are blatantly ignoring this fact.
1 -
maybe making Gen Speeds faster but increasing the amount of Gens that need to be repaired would help. Since Survivors will need to travers the Map more thus wasting more time. Also getting a gen done will not be as Boring since its faster.
a way to do it would be to increase the Amount of Generators needed to power the Exit gates to 8 and increase the Amount of Gens on the Map to 10.
Every Gen takes 50 charges to complete wich is the same Amount of time then with 5 gens currently.
And then you could add 1 additional Generator to Corrupt.
But idk if that would work. You would need to test this and collect some Data aswell as ask Players what type was more engaging and fun but also fair.
0 -
the idea with the Map is actually genius. That way they could find out what makes the Game more fun Overall for their Player Base.
0 -
Who ever said anything about throwing pallets against Nurse the same as you would against an M1 killer.
I am questioning your idea that you can use a pallet as a means to counter Nurse. I can't believe I even have to ask...
You do realize that she can go through them, right?
1 -
Nurse doesn't have an anti-pallet ability, she has an anti-Dead by Daylight ability.
Please show me your epic gamer montage of all the pallet stuns you got against nurses who were simultaneously good and at their keyboards.
3
