Is Depipping Still a Necessary Feature?
Hello DBD community.
I wanted to get the thoughts and feedback of players regarding the ol' "Depip", especially now that Ranks have been reworked into Grades. For those unaware, if you don't fulfil a certain amount of emblems in a match, you will be given a 'depip' or a -1 to your current grade pips.
When ranks were used for matchmaking, this somewhat made more sense. If you did badly in a match, you would go down and be matched with lower ranked players. Now that this system is solely used for Grades and therefore bloodpoint rewards each month, I was wondering if this depipping design was still necessary.
In my opinion, whilst it's not a common or even likely scenario to depip, it is still possible and can sometimes make a bad match feel even worse. For example, if you are a survivor who's been caught first and camped to death, you can depip. If you're practicing a new killer and you've had some bad RNG, or only have a single perk, you could depip. This can add salt to a wound, and whilst you can no longer dip below a grade once you've achieved it, it's still a sting to be 1 pip away from Gold 1 and then see yourself be 2 pips away.
I've considered that the depipping system encourages players to make sure they're trying each match and making sure they're trying to win, and whilst this may be true, I wonder if the benefits of that outweigh the negatives of the scenarios above (i.e. being camped to death), as these players would now just safety pip if such a system existed.
Likewise, depipping could solely be reserved for those who disconnect as an added incentive not to.
Regardless, I wanted to see people's thoughts on whether depipping through normal gameplay should still be a thing or if removing this and making safety pipping the lowest you can get is a more beneficial system in the end. Both sides have negatives/positives.
Comments
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Depipping is the #1 reason killers camp and tunnel so much. Killers would play more variety if you didn't depip too.
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I can confirm. Getting 4 pips and then facing an obnoxious SWF team and you knowing that you might be thrown back, again, is disheartening. So lets camp it out in order to minimize the damage. Source: I am a killer main.
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It should be removed for both sides.
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I am two different people when playing to get Iri 1 for BP reward.
Before I hit Iri 1: NO mercy Twins, BUbba
After I hit Iri 1: hey lets play Clown and watch me 360 hook you and moonwalk while carrying a surv to a hook who cares if Feng gets hatch,. 3k is good enough
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I know from a mentality standpoint the absence of depipping would probably be better for the community - I'd even be happier if an additional tier of grades were added to compensate (The idea being that there's now an "Auric" grade above iridescent to climb through 4 tiers of to make up for the inability to lose pips).
That said I almost never think about pips personally and my grades climb just from playing the game. I don't believe that depips really cause that much trouble (other than mentally, for folks who fixate on it) since you can't regress in grade anymore, either.
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Lolol, yeah! I got burned once by giving someone the hatch after we had a really fun game, but due to Devotion badges I didn't get the merciless killer and only pipped once, leaving me at 4 pips. Next game the SWF vulture squad decended on me and ripped 2 pips out in the most painful way. This taught me to never show mercy until you reach Iri 1. These days I don't always make it beyond Gold ranks as killer, some month, because I just can't stomach the abuse.
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Definitely time for depiping to go. I struggle to have fun playing a lot of the time because I have to always worry about whether I did enough to pip
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Yeah. Back some time when you could see other peoples grades you had lots of posts saying "how is that possible? Me poor Ash 4 killer against Iri 1 death squad!!!1", and people would always come forth and explain that a) grade had nothing to do with MMR (true) and b) that it was just a function of time invested since last rank reset (false) and didn't denote any skill at all (false).
What this people fail to grasp is that you still have to play consistently good in order to reach the higher reaches; nay, not only play consistently good, but play 4-5 games back to back consistently good, without RNG or MMR screwing you over. Its really frustrating when you work your way up to 4 pips and then a series of bad games send you back to zero.
I would really, really prefere it a lot if grades were indeed just a function of time played. You wouldn't have to sweat your ass off, but still rank up over time naturally by the medium to good games you got, without the constant fear and frustration of losing it all.
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They should remove depipping. I would assume this is a 90%+ agreement among the playerbase.
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A player who disconnects from a match should lose a pip. Other than that, I agree that it no longer serves a useful purpose.
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now this I do support,... you DC, lose a pip.
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They once said in a japanese Q&A that they want to keep Depipping to have a somewhat skillful element to the Grade System.
However, with the Grades just presenting how much you play, depipping really should go. I have had evenings where I gained 4 Pips in a row, just to lose 4 PIps in a row. Which sucked.
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Depipping is a relic of the past. Grades measure playtime, not skill. Why can you move backwards on playtime? I'm okay with safety pips as a way of preventing people from ranking up via AFK or ragequitting, but depips have to go. They're especially punishing to survivors, who are near-entirely at the mercy of how the killer plays and whether their teammates even try to win.
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Depends. Do you like bloodpoints?
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Not what I meant, I meant killers will camp and tunnel to get pips or not lose them. Not griefing. After I hit Iri 1 I stop caring about pips.
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Yeah please just remove it
It has no bearing on matchmaking anymore and it's impossible to go down a grade so, just get rid of it
all it does is cause frustration in players trying to get their grade to iri 1 before rank reset
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I think the poster means that the threat of depipping can force a killer to utilise unfun strategies in order to at a minimum secure a safety pip.
Sure; some killers will use those tactics no matter what. But the threat of a depip if a game is getting away from you definitely contributes to why killers camp and tunnel.
When I’ve played survivor I’ve seen it happen a fair bit. Killer is playing “normally” but struggling; only has 1/2 hooks and there’s only one gen left to pop. Suddenly the next person hooked is met with hard camping. Again, even without the pipping system some people will still do this as they care so much about kills/winning. But removing the threat of depipping should lower the number of people that do this.
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I do my best to ignore the pips. They only have power over you if you pay attention to them. Just play normally and let the cards lay as they fall.
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Depipping was good for when Ranks were used as a matchmaking tool to filter ranks based on how skillfull players were in them (in theory).
However, nowadays ranks are only used to indicate how much you played DbD. They are no longer part of the matchmaking tool nor are they publicly shown to other users - plus they dont work together well with the current matchmaking tool, as they start out easy and get harder and harder to progress through, while said matchmaking tool makes you have easy games (=easy to pip) at the very beginning, but makes it harder and harder for you to win (= earning pips gets much harder [in addition to the already increasing requirements to them] and depipping gets much easier) the more you play.
I don't think there is any reason for depips to still exist in the current form of the game. All they do is add frustration to it, which we have plenty of already.
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Yup! And I'm aware of course that not all DCs are intentional, and I wish there were a way to make that determination. But my hunch(and my experience)is that the vast majority of DCs are deliberate.
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Exactly. The struggle becomes especially noticeable after hitting gold. You could have a few good games only to be screwed by MMR/RNG and hit the bottom of rank again. Makes it a nightmare. I gave up ranking up my killer because it was just to much expectation for trying to play some casual matches
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Now it is the grade system, which is more a time spent playing reward than skill, it should be removed, apart from reset day of course.
They said themselves the grade system is nohing to do with skill now so why should depipping be a thing anymore, especially since swfs are still as strong as ever and mmr itself is still quite finicky.
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I've been beating this drum for a while now, and it's good to see so many other people share the same sentiment.
Depipping accomplishes nothing. Grades aren't used for matchmaking, so your grade doesn't affect your opponent level (in theory). Grades aren't an indicator of optimal skill level. No one but you can see your grade pre or post match (unless they're part of your SWF as survivor, and it's doubtful they care). So other than the BP bonus, moving down in a particular grade level is something that only affects your ability to gain BP at the end of a month.
When I get to Rank 1, I change my style considerably. I'm much more likely to experiment, play around with meme builds, or goof off in a match, since any pressure to not de-pip is gone. I'm sure many others play that way as well.
Getting to Rank 1 wouldn't be automatic if de-pipping wasn't a thing -- people who don't play all that often, or who struggle with playing the game, are still going to have trouble pipping -- especially at higher grades -- and getting past a certain rank, even if they can't de-pip. The possibility that some people might play more casually outweighs any reason that remains for keeping the de-pip as it is.
This is something I hope the devs realize at some point and implement as a QOL improvement for everyone.
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Unfortunately, I genuinely believe depipping is left there to make playtime rise and that is a concern of the devs. They dont want us to reach Iri 1 faster because they think we stop playing after that.
no, we stop playing as sweaty, I wish they'd realize this. I feel the same as you.
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It should exist only for DC's.
Other than that, it should've been removed when they stated grades should reflect only time played.
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So you consider getting downed first and getting face-camped by the killer at 5 gens "not playing well"? Or facing a 4-person SWF bringing 4 BNP Commodius toolboxes and a map offering and getting gen-rushed out of the game no matter what you do "not playing well"? Not meaning any offense here, but that doesn't sound much different than the devs logic that kills/escapes are all that matter for matchmaking purposes.
Simply participating wouldn't be enough, even if the depip didn't exist. If you don't play well, you'll be constantly safety-pipping once you climb grades. And as a disclaimer, I make Rank 1 on both sides (always on killer, usually on survivor) every month, so it's not like I have a personal dog in this fight.
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Depipping serves no purpose now and needs to go.
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They also just need to adjust the pipping system for survivors. It's far easier for killers to pip since all their emblems flow into each other, survivors have to go out of their way to do a bunch of everything.
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You are partly right, but as the killer you can't play too well, as anyone learns that tries to do some of the killer adept challenges. With nearly all instadown killers you get punished if you use your power too often and too well, because then you get fewer chase points etc. There is even poor old Plage, whoms power actively fights against her getting the achievment. Also, anyone dying on hook and not getting rescued will screw over your devotion ranking. Its all pretty banged up and busted, tbh, no matter the side. For killers they should have changed it to a 3k+hatch or 4k as the requirement, a long time ago, but because of how strikt playstation network is about changes to their trophies, they can`t do a thing about it.
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We'll have to respectfully disagree. There are numerous other examples I could give. You have a teammate who DC's when they're downed first, making it a 3 v. 1 out of the gate? You still MIGHT safety pip (or even pip up, depending how the match goes), but that's a recipe for a de-pip at higher grades more often than not. I've 4K'ed lots of SWF with that 4 BNP set-up and gotten Merciless wins, so you're right there that it's possible -- but playing killer at Iridescent ranks, those are the matches that you look up and say "Wait, I got 6 hook states and a kill -- I still de-pipped?". We won't even get into the fact that killing survivors too quickly as killer nets you only a safety pip at high ranks, or the de-pip you're guaranteed at high ranks if you're doing Tombstone Myers, let's say, or some killers being punished in Emblems by using their powers correctly (or survivors not playing smart against said killers, Plague being the best example). The Emblem system determining the pips is flawed (anyone doing Adept killer at Iridescent Ranks knows that) to begin with. If it functioned better, than I'd be more prone to agree with you.
I understand where you're coming from. I'm not a fan of "participate, and everyone gets a prize" either, but I'll respectfully disagree on this subject.
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depipping is pointless at this point.
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Definitely shouldn't be part of the game anymore to depip. Now that Grades don't mean skill. Should be reserved for players who DC. Survivors can't control if they will get tunneled/ facecamped/ or left on hook by bad solo Q teammates. And killers can't control if they're gonna get genrushed. Really flawed system.
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Yeah, I've had that happen, which is especially irritating (and more likely) as you're closing in on Iri 1.
But I don't know if it should be removed altogether, especially now that you can't de-rank/de-grade. Maybe make it so you really have to stink it up (or DC) to de-pip.
One thing I think should absolutely be a thing is that no one de-pips in a match where someone DCs, ever. Except maybe the person who DC'd.
Having a teammate (or multiple survs, if you're playing killer) DC and you lose a pip in spite of your best efforts really sucks.
Post edited by Thusly_Boned on1 -
Personally I think the depip still serves a purpose although there could be situations where it could be disabled, and on the survivor side the requirements for safety pip could probably be lowered in general.
So right from the get go, a DC should be a depip for either side. I also still want it in the game for those survivors who hook suicide on first hook.
I know that for me personally on the killer side when i get matched well outside my skill level I can often tell pretty early. If im still climbing to iri, I will play that match with the idea of needing to safety pip, that same match once i hit iri 1 i will say screw it and afk on the gate and wait for gens to be done so i can slam the gate open and get out of the match as fast as possible.
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I kinda agree, if it's only for bloodpoints, just give the +0 if the player did bad. -1 should be there only for DCs.
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I think it's okay on killer. It's very hard to depip before Iri, and even then I can usually safety off 1k.
On survivor, absolutely. It's way too easy to depip/too hard to pip, and frequently feels completely outside of your control sometimes.
Facing Twins? Get a camper? Get a DC? Get a knockout slugger? Good luck pipping.
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