New Self-Care + Botany Numbers
Can someone run the numbers on this?
I LOVE SELF CARE T_T
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I still can't believe they actually nerfed it
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I'm assuming it will have similar speeds stacked with BK as it does now stacked with BK, but I don't know how these voodoo calculations work.
It certainly entices more group healing, though.
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I'm not sure about numbers since I rarely used it specially with botany but I think it will probably be similar with solo self care now with botany added
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base heal takes 16 charges.
Normal heal rate is 1 C/S
New self care is 35% or .35 C/S
Assuming nothing else except self care 16/.35 = ~45 seconds
Botany is 50% bonus or .5 C/S
.35 + .5 = .85 C/S or 16/.85 = ~18 seconds
Edit: These numbers do not seem to be accurate based on posts below, this assumed additive behavior and I was mistaken about it
Post edited by Carth on3 -
I hope it's a bit better :(
I'm sure you've seen me love on Self-Care, before :P
Unrelated, but I like a lot of the Killer Meta Perk changes and most of the other random ones on both sides.
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If this is accurate....I AM IN HEAVEN
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Yea I have noticed that. I always just preferred to be injured instead of healing so iron will was my go to perk, but now it's... well.
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If this is accurate....
I AM IN HELL
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It seems I may be joining you on the sad bus ;(
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Im confused on the wording of the dev update
Its worded really weird, the perk in game says "healing speed and healing item efficiency"
But the dev update says "healing speed efficiency" is increased to 50%
So its only the medkit efficiency thats affected right? Its not clear to me
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Yea they really did overdid on some of these. Now the #NerfSelfCare is reality and not a meme.
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The Botany heal speed charge bonus is multiplied with the Self Care rate, not added. The comment above me has it right. BK + SC is 30.4s.
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It isn't.
1 second = 1 charge
16 charges per heal = 16 second base heal
Current self care brings this up to 32 seconds.
New self care brings this to ~45.5 seconds
With botany giving it an additional 50% speed, it would be 85% as effective.
Therefore, Botany + Self Care = ~19 seconds
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Do you have a source? I was always under the impression it was additive, totally believe you but just would love to see a documented source so I can avoid being wrong in the future.
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Also I don't think this is correct unless Botany has some super special exception or I copied that other formula down because if we take a look at green medkit(50% heal increase) + botany(33% heal increase) rn
Base of 1.0 * current botany(.33) * green medkit(.5) = 1 * .5 * .33 = .495
16/ .495 = 32 seconds, and clearly having a green medkit and botany knowledge does not take 32 seconds to heal yourself in todays world. I could be wrong here but taking the formula from above and plugging it in with current values it does not seem to be the right equation.
If we do the additive variant though it would come out to
1.0 + .33 + .5 = 1.85 or 16/1.85 = 8.6 seconds which sounds far more accurate
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Botany is not additive, it's multiplicative. SC + botany will be 30 seconds to self heal
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I don't but here's how it works. All buffs are added together then multiplied by whatever rate your dealing with. Debuffs are just straight multiplied. So current SC takes 32s (16 charges/0.5 charges per second). Current SC + BK takes 24s (0.5 x 1.33 = 0.67 charges per second. 16 charges/0.67 charges per second = 24s). If you just added .33 to .5 you'd get 0.83 charges per second and a resulting heal speed of 13.28s, which 100% is not what happens in game.
Now if you have multiple buffs, say, current Botany + 1 stack of Desperate Measures + SC, then the buffs get added (.33 + .14 = .47), then multiplied (0.5 x 1.47 = 0.753), then 16 gets divided by that for a 21.8s heal.
By the way, since a buff is increasing the rate past 100%, you add up the bonuses in decimal form, then add 1 to it before you multiply.
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if that's the case like nobody will ever run self care again. can you imagine 45 seconds borefest to heal yourself? even with botany knowledge it will still feel super slow. horrible nerf
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You underestimate how desperate some players are to keep themselves healed.
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Legion mains will be like
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In this example it's .5 + .33 for a 183% bonus or 1.83 in decimal from. 16charges/1.83charges per second is 8.74s. Your mistake from the other example is that you're not applying the sum of buffs to a debuffed value correctly. You don't add the buffs directly to a debuffed value. You add the buffs up, then multiply that with the charge rate you're trying to figure out.
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For real lol
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ahh, thank you for the numbers and explanations!
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why do you take 16 charges? that's for like healing others then?
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Its actually interesting. How SC users were called bad from the bigger part of the community and yet, they were so effective on high mmr, that the devs felt the need to purge the perk.
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wow that's a very clear and perfect explanation of the method to calcuate the healing speeds. thank you for this
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I ran SC and Botany.
Helped me from going down/provided hundreds of health states T_T
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16 charges is just the base amount of charges it takes to heal, and then everything that changes heal speeds just alters the rate at which those 16 charges are reached. Buffs make you get to 16 charges faster, and debuffs make you get to 16 charges slower. In general, all the mechanics of dbd rely on charges, and the base rate is 1 charge per second, and then they set a value at which the action is completed. For healing it's 16 charges, for gens it's 80 charges (soon to be 90 charges), and so on.
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perfect!!! thanks again a very clear answer!
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Sometimes i run CoH + Botany + medkit with bonus healing speed for comical fast healing.
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how fast ?
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0.5*1.33+0.50+0.5=0.5*2.23=1.165 charges/sec= 16/1.165=13,73 sec.
Is that right?
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I like nobody talking about Circle of healing nerf. 30 seconds to self-heal with circle of healing. everyone talking about how self-care is slower, but self-care aspect applies to circle of healing as it unlocks ability to self-care in its radius.
I didn't wanna say anything because once i saw self-care on list of perk changes. I knew it was coming.
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I don't even have to do the math to know that this is wrong.
Current Self-care + Botany takes longer than 19 seconds.
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The self-care nerf is not good. So the megs and Claudette’s self caring in the corner of the map are going to take even longer being there. Just great. I guess eventually they’ll Urban Evade their way back to the rest of the team, just to hide in a locker. 😑
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Its much faster. You should try it. Haven´t stopped the time, but ranger medkit with bonus healing speed addon is fast.
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i just tried it, its like super super fast to heal yourself and even faster when healing others. i had all the healing perks too including desperate measures. i think its around 5/6 seconds to heal yourself
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wait... are you sure circle of healing is affect by this nerf too???
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if it is slower, yes, but something doesn't add up. 35% from 50% reduction sounds more like a buff.
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what do you mean with that last sentence?
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My heart sank a lil bit seeing Self-Care getting nerfed.
It's not even as bad as people claim it to be.
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They didn't need to nerf the SC+bot combo at least. You're already dedicating two perks slots for it 😔
But I guess cross-healing is a little better now with the botany buff.
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i think the user who did 30 second math is wrong. my current math is described as following.
Self-care healing speed.
16/(1-0.35)= 24.61 seconds
Self-care with botany knowledge
24.61/(1+0.5) = 10.66 seconds
circle of healing:
24.61/(1+0.5) = 10.66
self-care was buffed. not nerfed. as a result. circle of healing was buffed as well. self-care aspect is 5.4 seconds faster than its previous iteration which was 100%(16 second healing)
I have to double-check my math to make sure everything is correct though.
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It's super slow now. There's way better healing perks available. Hell, a medkit is better than Self Care NOW.
What I'm noticing with some of these changes on the survivor side is the devs really seem to be pushing survivors to work together as a team more. There's a couple changes that basically give them 2 extra perks momentarily depending on how the killer plays or if the killer brings a certain perk, but overall, team play is going to be more of a must rather than an option. With how the killer regression perks now work, survivors working together should actually be able to progress the game as the regression perks don't sound like they're going to be amazing in late game. The Pop nerf alone is pretty huge. But Overcharge should see some more play. Should be interesting to see how this plays out.
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bleh
Post edited by Kumy on0 -
If my math was right it's 49.5%. Literally less then current solo Self Care.
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No, CoH will still have a cap of 50%. The Self Care nerf is limited to Self Care. CoH being active gives one the ability to heal themselves. It doesn't grant Self Care. They're two different perks that can do the same thing, although CoH is being wasted if you're not being healed by teammates most of the time. 300% healing > 50% Self healing.
Medkits allow a survivor to heal themselves too, but they're not getting dropped to 35% max. It's just Self Care that is getting nerfed.
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i think you interpreted the debuff wrong. it's a nerf from 50% of normal healingspeed to 35%, so a 15% extra penalty on top of the already 50% healing debuff. so its 16 sec / 0.35 (after nerf) = 45 sec
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I think we have to see this in PTB for how it works.
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Wait till you see new Self Care speeds when the killer has Sloppy Butcher.
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