So BHVR is actively removing fun?
Instead of making perks with an cool idea legit and strong they nerf good and legit perks just to change the meta?
Not recognizing that people choose "meta perks" because they are good at what they should do?
Take Detectives Hunch. When it was released no one was playing it because it was bad af. Nowadays it's good and you can add so much coordination to a solo team.
or Windows of Opp. What it was released it was so bad and boring. Now it's legit. It's good and fun to play.
so WHY are they killing them? Iron Will. Iron Wil lwas asbolutely fine and so fun to play. And they nerf it because they don't like people having fun with it? Or Spine Chill? They removed a perk from the game (technically) just to "change the meta".
We asked you to change the meta in order to change perks or buff the idea of a perk so it becomes playable.
Lets take a random perk: Solodarity. Why is no one playing it. Because it's bad. Because it's boring. If it would increase the speed you heal others by lets say 50% or 75% way more people would like to play this perk. Because it adds an dynamic playstyle. Making things faster, more efficient.
We'll make it. The Killer can still be ut of TR and still make it back to the hook and chase the unhooked. If it was like 300% for like 20 seconds way more people would like to run it because the incentive of the perk would actually work out. The live-version doesn't work and perks like BT instead are working out.
I hope you take back the Iron Will/ Selfcare / Spine Chill changes. It doesn't makes any sense. If you want new meta perks then make boring, weak and unworthy perks worth it to run them. But telling people how to play the game and nerf playstyles just because people like playing certain ways is NOT okay.
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Iron will is a problematic perk imo
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Man the “we fear change” crowd is working in overdrive tonight.
I’d say much of what’s being changed is interesting and we’ll have to see how much it shakes things up.
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Why do you think Iron Will is "fine and fun to play" ?
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Oh no they are changing so perks that have been overly used almost every single match 😱😱😱😱
How about just wait till it drop and just see what fun and/or meta builds you can make now?
I don't understand people crying over things that haven't been released yet and they haven't even experimented with them 🤷🏼♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
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Cause it only benefits them, so that's fine 😉😂
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Not anymore my ghost friend.
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Thankfully, now its time for me to use inner focus with self preservation
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iron will change isn't that bad tbh.. but maybe you experimented more than me :)
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When the change is this bland then yeah it is fearworthy. Also, noticed how the only noteworthy killer perk buffs are the slowdown ones? The meta is still gonna be full of gen regression perks but boring as hell ones instead (Overcharge, Brine, Surge etc). Every single of my "I fear change" predictions came true and I'm disheartened (but not surprised) about it.
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Ok did you not notice that ALL the Gen regression perks have the When a survivor is put into the dying state it's disabled....they won't be constantly on, that's why most of them got a Buff because they will be limited use.
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I don't really understand some people's issue with IW as it is atm. When I play killer I don't just rely on the "grunts of pain" to find the survivor when in a chase. Like I still have my eyes lol. I still see a crow fly away, scratchmarks, grass movement, and when they're still close I can hear their footsteps, so IW or not it doesn't hinder me as much as a killer.
If I still lose a survivor with all of that info at my disposal then good on them! They out-played me and rightfully so, and that's a learning moment right there 🤙
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Signed, an Iron-Will Self-Care Spine Chill user.
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With the changes that have been announced, i do not see how killer players will continue to play.
- DH change is a buff to my mind, but i would agree to call it a side step
- All regression perks nerfed, gen rush will be huge, the added 10 seconds to complete a gen won't change anything
- No change on CoH, it was META and will be even more META with the various nerf on other perks
- BT becomes base kit
- no change on map layout/pallets/windows
- slight changes on stun/speed boost but it won't be game changer as there are 15 pallets on a map
They have nerfed to the ground killer that won't be able to rely on regression perks to have a single chance to win and they have changed the survivors' META that will be : DH, COH, Prove Thyself, Unbreakable, Lithe, SB.
Well, once again, i had hope BHVR would understand their game, they still did not. I did not play for 2 months and i won't come back.
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Numbers you see seems little, in game it makes alot of impact. I and make the number chart if you want to know.
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I'd rather have your cute Spirit dressed like a teacher showing us the chart lmao
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As a killer main who plays survivor everyday, I am always amazed at how close I can be to a killer, injured, and never be found. Literally behind a rock killer has no clue. My guess they tired of people like me using it so good.
I have had IW on since I started the game in 2017 because Jake was first survivor I leveled to 50.
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It's good they are nerfing the meta perks. They just do too much for one single perk. The problem I have is that some of them are being nerfed way too much, and a few, like Self Care and DS, really didn't need a nerf to begin with.
BUt it's definitely nice to have the meta finally be shaken up. I just don't see a reason why they would make current meta perks almost useless, like Iron Will, Self Care, Ruin or Spine Chill.
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- Dead Hard isn’t a buff. Simply the fact that it doesn’t protect against non-damaging effects and grabs means it’s not useful in a bunch of scenarios the current version is, like hopping over Trapper traps and dodging Deathslinger spears and not being grabbed at vaults (where the current version you can preemptively lunge ahead to vault without being grabbed, not if the killer is too close they can grab you as you vault and the Endurance has no effect). So it’s still a good perk but no way is it a “buff”.
- You’re definitely wrong about 10 seconds per generator not making a difference. I can’t count how many times as a killer I’ve barely missed gens being completed at 80 seconds that I would have stopped with a bit more time. It’s a significant base game slowdown.
- CoH has seen a lot less use since its most recent nerfs. It’s still being used but it’s not as meta as it was when it first came out.
- Borrowed Time being base kit has zero effect on me as a killer. I always just assumed every rescue had Borrowed Time anyway and played accordingly. This change has no impact on how I play as a killer.
- Those reductions in stun times and speed boosts are actually significant. It’s a difference of a couple of meters of distance I think between how far a survivor can get away from you now versus after the changes. Just look at why Save the Best for Last is popular as an example of how reducing stun duration after a hit is useful.
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Consistently with every patch it seems.
Don't forget camping and slugging will be buffed and take much longer to do gens against more slowdown perks.
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The part that gets me about these kinds of comments is that it's not as though you have no tools to replace these new changes.
Liked how Spine Chill showed you when the killer was near you through walls? Dark Sense. Is it as powerful? No, but nothing should've been. If not that, how about keys? How about Alert? This option went down in strength, sure, but it also needed to.
Liked the stealth of Iron Will? Lucky Break and Off The Record are looking completely bonkers after this patch hits, and that's just the stealth perks that got touched- there's more already in the game.
Liked the reliable self-heal of Self-Care? Botany Knowledge pairs with it even nicer now, and you've got Inner Healing, Circle of Healing, Renewal, and a host of other options.
They didn't nerf playstyles. They nerfed perks that overrun those playstyles by being objectively the best pick for that playstyle, so that you actually have to think about which options are going to suit you best. That's a good thing.
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The killer is about to become a lot more dangerous in chase - keeping Iron Will in its current state could pose a huge risk for heavily incentivizing everyone to play in a super immersed manner, which would drive killer players absolutely nuts.
Also, escaping from a chase while injured even once is significant enough to swing a game. It shouldn't be easy to do - especially if you manage to use both a health state and your exhaustion status to really draw the chase out.
Iron Will is the linchpin of the standard chase kit right now for so many reasons. Being injured should feel like a big problem.
Spine Chill is a major security blanket for some survivors (myself included!) but it robs stealth killers of their defining characteristic in a way that no other perk counters a killer-by-type so effectively. You'll still get value for knowing when you're at risk of being stalked by Meyers or Ghost Face, but facing stealth killers in confined spaces should be unnerving! "Putting the horror back into DBD" right?
Survivor players are crafty - they'll adapt, and these changes clear the overgrowth to allow some new strategies and techniques to grow - as BHVR stated multiple times was the intention.
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Ah yes, completely passive perks that work unconditionally, are useful at nearly all times, and are very powerful with barely any counterplay available. The definition of fun and exciting.
Spine Chill and Iron Will are awful to play against as killer and hard counter several killers completely passively. I'm so glad they're being nerfed.
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- yes DH will be less effective in some scenario and way more in others. I do not call it a nerf.
- 10 seconds on gens won't change anything, the cnerf on regressing perks will negate this change
- COH is in all high MMR game, even 2 survivors with COH
- BT as base kit will have an effect on you as a killer, why ? Cause it is freeing a perk slot for each survivors that do not need BT anymore and in end game it will be a huge game changer as it will be like every survivors have BT
- It would be significant if there was less pallets/windows, fact is that the survivor is able to run 20 meters away or 16 won't be game changer as there are pallets every 5 meters
Your positivism is good but at high MMR it will be terrible to play killer, more than what it is now : more frustrating, more gen rush.
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- It won’t be “way more effective” in most cases, it will be “as effective”. If the survivor uses it to get to a pallet drop for instance they lose the speed boost after the drop so it would be identical in that scenario.
- 10 seconds is a significant difference, and the nerfs to the regression perks aren’t that bad in a lot of cases. In particular it’ll be a boost to any loadout that had one or no gen slowdown perks in it.
- COH is in about 12% of matches at the highest MMR brackets according to the dev chart of use by MMR bracket. That translates to one person using it every other match.
- Everybody having a weakened Borrow Time won’t change how I play in unhook situations. Like, at all.
- You’re underestimating how often you get in situations where 1 or 2 meters makes a difference.
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- a competent survivor never uses the speedboost to stop 3 meters away at a pallet. The surv will run as long as possible with the boost and then reach a pallet
- we will see but i highly doubt it
- CoH has been in all my games as killer and survivor and yes i was playing at high MMR as i was winning most of my games as survivor
- BT base kit = 1 more free slot, the way you particularly play does not change how it is, DbD balance is not determined by how Dugman plays DbD...
- you are overestimating it cause survivors are not AI bots, they will adapt the way they play and you will end up having the exact same 1 meter too far away to get the hit
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Actually, they are introducing real fun here.
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i understand selfcare (at least bothany knowledge will be buffed, so if you run it with selfcare it shouldn't be problematic), but iron will was nerfed for good reasons (try to play spirit with a team of iron will users... you'll become a 4.4 killer without power at this point... the nerf was done probably to put in line with stridor too) and spine chill destroyed stealth killers (still ngl that perk will be overnerfed if the ptb will go live)... also it's curious that you mentioned only survivor's perk without mentioning any killer perk...
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the day that i'll see you saying something AGANIST survivors and will SUPPORT killers will be the day that the world will end... (still i know that you are a master regarding the art of bait)
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I,m so happy to see that coment bc iron player all the same having to rely on that perk in chase in EVERYSINGLE situation is iron will to strong having no problems with staying injured shouldn't be a thing at all and i,m glad it will be gone so all the blendetts needs to actually do something to win
Oh damn you even crying about spine chill that perk what killed all stealth killer jjst by simply having are you kidding
Dude everyone know at lesst should knew that self care is a killer perk nothing else all the bots aka my teammates in soloq who go in corners and hesl their with sloppy for a half minute mostly with iron bc no counter play just deverd it they are if not the main reason why everyone hates soloq and you talk about fun dosent make any sense
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Nah thats the issue every spirit with good Headset didnt lost anyways but now spirit aka noob carrier is fully back ones more without the slightest counterplay
But in general iron will was they to strong having no downside from being injured was just dump and promoted hiding for baby survs and literally easy looping for good survs so i,m with that too 100%
Self care was always a killer perk and now its even more a killer perk its wasting so mutch time for a single heal that perk is the main reason why no one wants to play soloq
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Iron Will nullifies Spirit's power and Spine Chill directly counters Ghostface and Myers hard. One thing is a perk that gives you advantage against a certain killer, like how healing perks make killers like Oni and Twins have a bad time. Another completely different thing is a perk that makes some powers almost useless simply by using it, which is totally braindead and problematic.
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Yes and no.
Sometimes, a thing is so strong that buffing everything up to that level would break the game.
Iron Will was a problem. It hard counters an entire killer with zero counterplay.
Spine Chill was a problem. It hard countered two entire killers with zero counterplay. I do agree that it's getting overnerfed, but that's feedback for the PTR.
Self Care was not a problem and does not need a nerf.
In the same vein though...
Off The Record cannot go live as is. Knockout should not go live as is (that perk needs to be changed, it's already horrible to face in solo queue).
- DH change is a nerf. The perk will still be good, but some of the more ridiculous DH moments will no longer happen. That's fine.
- PTS needs a nerf, but aside from that those 10 seconds are being added mostly to stop those moments where you lose a gen between seeing Discordance pop across the map and head there, but can't do anything.
- CoH is dumb, but the increased lethality from faster recovery will help.
- That's fine.
- That needs a look, but it will hopefully come later.
- Yeah, it will, especially against predropping.
Slugging with the new Knockout will need a look.
Camping is getting a pretty big nerf, provided the additional haste is enough to dodge a Bubba's second sweep (it should be, we will see on the PTR).
You're missing the fact that all the really big slowdown perks are getting a massive nerf.
BHVR are privy to stats that we aren't, particularly the kill rates with new players excepted. They say that they are too low. So some changes are being made.
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"Iron Will was asbolutely fine and so fun to play. "
The hell it was. Iron Will was an absolutely broken perk and deserved the kick it got. It has nothing to do with "nerfing fun". You are upset that you can no longer completely shut off the audio component of the Killer while Injured and do not see how maybe that is a bit much. How would you like it if the Killer ran a perk that made them Undetectable anytime you were Injured, for the entire time you were Injured? You probably wouldn't think that was very fair.
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- Right, currently they lunge toward the vault. But that lunge is a burst of extra distance that pushes them away from the killer and out of range of any grab attempt. This new version though doesn’t grant extra distance, so while the survivor is protected from taking damage from a hit the killer is still the same distance and closing in, so if the killer reaches them at the same time they reach the vault then there will be a grab animation if the survivor is already injured and the Endurance won’t stop it.
- The stats are public for CoH, it’s literally not in every game at the highest MMR bracket. It’s in 12% or so of loadouts, so about 1/8 survivors run it. It’s mathematically not a thing that you’re seeing it literally every game, you’re probably seeing it every other game on one survivor and forgetting the games you didn’t see it.
- I’m not saying DbD balance is based on how I play, I’m saying how I play isn’t affected by this change. You’re trying to argue the base kit Borrowed Time is overpowered but even it were that doesn’t mean killers are going to play any differently, they just might get fewer kills on average. (And that’s certainly not guaranteed either considering the other base game changes.)
- You literally above just tried to argue that they would be using Dead Hard at the last possible moment, now you’re arguing they won’t. Which is it?
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Another Survivor crying. Git Gud or play Killer.
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