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BHVR, please take into account Otzdarva's feedback
Otzdarva is not only a really big streamer of DBD, but he also cares about the game so much. He playtests everything insanely much, analyzes and dissects things carefully. He's the best playtester and advisor that you could dream of.
He posted his feedback video on youtube about this massive change that's coming. His feedback contains his concern over some things that you've done with this update. Some changes are quite good, while some are quite bad.
Some very important problems have not been addressed at all with this update. If you finally start taking into account his feedback, this game will become a much better, healthier experience. Of course, there are some other content creators that provide feedback too, so feel free to take their opinion into account as well.
Off the Record buff is broken, Self-Care nerf is too much, Botany Knowledge buff makes the medkit/CoH problem much worse. Unbalanced maps are still a huge problem.
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I like Otz but I’m not inclined to watch a one hour video about this. If someone wants to do a TLDR post with his bullet points that can be read in 5-10 minutes that would be useful.
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BHVR needs to be listening to the whole community not just one big streamer.
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OTR is op, Self-Care got nerfed too hard, and CoH is going to be even worse of a problem since they aren't doing anything about it.
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Agreed but most of us have the same thoughts than him, and he is more in a position to give out the feedback from the community than any of us are.
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All feedback is taken into consideration and all feedback is valid. There's no one person has a higher priority than other within our community that would be unfair - when we report feedback, we use a variety of sources including forums, socials etc.
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Thank you for clarifying this.
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There's a TLDR at the end of his video about his concerns.
But a quick summary:
- Some perks still need buffs (such as Dying Light, Furtive Chase, Autodidact etc)
- Some perks still need nerfs (Mainly CoH, Prove Thyself, and Deadlock)
- Basic M1 killers are buffed but there now is less incentive to use M2 attacks such as Shred
- Hook trading is easier
- Medkits are stronger now because of the Botany Knowledge buff
- Off the Record is broken and is going to encourage bodyblocking more
- Maps, items and offerings still need to be addressed
- Nurse and Blight are even stronger now
- Camping needs more counterplay
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he's the kind of guy you gotta pause and come back to another day; it's nice background noise when i'm eating
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Care to explain what makes OTR so op?
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And by most you mean mostly killer mains. They have to take into consideration all feedback, not just a streamers and a biased one at that. Killer or survivor main opinion is bound to be biased.
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All feedback being valid is dangerous. Wouldn't the top players have the best say?
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I play both sides so i see the struggles on both and honest i have way more struggles on the killers side that i have on survivor side.
Sometimes i feel like playing a survivor is just bullying the killer.
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We really should wait until we have experienced these charges in real time. Change can be, and often is, a good thing. Experience the changes first and then make critiques. People are complaining without actually playing. Just wait and see, you might be surprised.
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you have to consider majority of the playerbase is not high MMR...that's why all feedback is valid, the game has to be accessible to all, including new players etc.
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The top players display the same amount of bias as the rest of the community. Otz is generally very level-headed but even he is not immune.
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For top players to even exist you need a good beginner experience to make people stick with the game to begin with
DBD used to be notorious of having a steep learning curve so taking feedback from newer players helps with that
Also casual players are just as important as top players, not everybody plays dbd super competitively.
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you make an excellent point re the beginner experience there...and it's very true!
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"Majority" is an understatement! The usage statistics in the blog post was really eye-opening to me. The 'top mmr' games are something like 0.13% of matches played compared to the midsection!
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With the exception of a few changes (ie. Self-Care and Spine Chill), I believe most changes are in a good direction to address some overbearing issues the game has had for a while.
Generator speeds have been an issue for quite some time and that required changes to a lot of generator progression and regression perks, I do not know why Prove Thyself wasn't touched in this update, but I expect some changes to it in the near future. Alas, I'd rather see how these changes pan out before panicking and asking things to be toned up or down. In text, some are important changes, in practise, we'd need to see how they actually work together.
I think the major issue they were addressing was to incentivise the Killer to go after other players rather than camping and tunnelling by giving them more chances to react, extra time and make chases less taxing. From my perspective, it seems a tad bit over-toned, but again I'd need to see how it works in practise.
Nonetheless, I do believe Killers will still camp and tunnel regardless and more chances may need to be taken in-consideration to finally address those.
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I've played killer myself as most mains have played the other side but still tend to lean to one side or the other. Killer bullying is because of actions, not perks, as is survivor bullying, while rarely talked about does happen and is often excused as part of the game. Unfortunately, player actions is one thing the devs cannot control.
Post edited by feechima on3 -
I don't feel like Otzdarva is biased. In fact, he takes into consideration how certain changes will influence new players as well. He has a ton of experience and insights into the game, far more than most of us do. I feel like his opinions come from his extensive knowledge, experience and testing. A lot of us on the forum talk from our personal preference. I don't agree with everything he says, but I feel like he knows the game much better than me, and he's a golden mine for feedback on the health of this game.
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They didn't said they were turning their brains off when listening.
I also expect OTR to be OP but I guess we'll see it in practice.
As for Nurse and Blight being stronger I have my doubts. I can't speak too much for Blight but as Nurse I currently suspect the new DH is stronger against her. I also noted some changes to be very strong against her. (Aura detection among others)
During the PTB I'll play various levels of Nurse (from no perks to best builds) and try to tunnel survivors and see what happens. I hope there'll be some strong teams present to tear me a new one.
I also hope less experienced killers will play too as, in my opinion, they are the ones who will get the more 'natural' benefit. (Experienced killers who are used to fight against the current meta may feel like a hot knife going through butter until survivors adjust to the changes)
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During the PTB I'll play various levels of Nurse (from no perks to best builds) and try to tunnel survivors and see what happens. I hope there'll be some strong teams present to tear me a new one.
I also hope less experienced killers will play too as, in my opinion, they are the ones who will get the more 'natural' benefit. (Experienced killers who are used to fight against the current meta may feel like a hot knife going through butter until survivors adjust to the changes)
@drsoontm That's such a good idea to test Nurse out perkless, to then test her with a strong build. Even playing more casual to seeing how the match holds together if you do tunnel will get a mix of different results. :)
When I play killer I usually focus on seeing who can counter me, dropping a chase so I can re-focus and then if I do come across the meta perks, I do what I can to get the most out of the game and add in my counterplay.
Even with perk reworks, I don't expect to win every single game. Some I've even just had hooks in, but still good chase points, down points, etc. That'll still happen, even with buffs. I don't always want to sweat.
Beginners for expert Nurse players will struggle, since even before this rework got announced, expert players of her know that they can take out the new players and not expect much counterplay.
I'm not personally impressed with everything, but I think that seeing lobbys where the perks are changed and I don't see the same 4, or if I'm survivor I can for once use more fun perks, that's better. I have so many I want to use, but had to put in the meta ones all the time.
We'll see how it plays out in the PTB and when it officially launches. Change needs to definitely happen and hopefully the devs may even tweak things.
Sorry for the essay. xD
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Well if u hear a bear inside a cave you wouldnt enter right?
Think as certain changes as the bear inside.
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Otzdarva always make, mostly statements that could kill playing kilelr; "oh, bt will not work on bubba camping, a killer with instadown camping will still be a threat", so what he wants? The power to stop close to hook? A survivor looping around hook while the hooked one has cameraderie with the gen speed buffed when the killer is camping? Easy trade scenarios? Otz has useful advices but he is mostly cattering a lot to survivor's salty remarks, not even rational; most survivors will still, even with nerfs, still have a better game than most killers, but it seems like there are not enough buffs for survivors
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Yeah OTR cannot possibly go live like that. It's exactly why they nerfed DS, but now you'll be teabagged for 30 seconds by an invincible survivor from the exit gates, as opposed to 20 seconds.
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As much as I agree with Otz's points, and I do. I disagree with this being presented as "BHVR listen to Otz!!!" You can simply make a post where you paraphrase the points that Otz made, you can even add or remove parts of his argument if you would like. I think the arguments that he makes can stand on their own without having to say, these points are valid because Otz says so.
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I'm fairly certain they already pay closer attention to him than many, considering he's in their streamer program. The part where they kept saying "second chance" perks on the Dev Update made me stop a second and be like "Who did I use to watch who said that a lot...? TRU3!" I don't think it's a bad thing at all, but I do like seeing reassurance that casual players like myself are considered, since for people like Otz and Tru3, this game is their job.
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So where are you getting survivor feedback from. I've yet to see any forums that isn't full of killer-players with a smattering of a few survivor players. This forum is killer sided, reddit is killer sided, steam is killer sided, where is the survivor heavy forums that you all are getting survivor perspectives on.
After this new developer update, I don't see anything that indicates the developers are listening to survivor players. This entire patch screws solo-queue. This is the 3rd patch in a row, where survivors have been screwed.
I hope the developers realize that this game is old and players are leaving this game because it's old.
I also hope the developers also realize that the gaming community as a whole are very obsessive about games being fair. This patch is designed to be unfair for survivor players. The developers have even stated this in the patch notes.
Killer players are tenacious, they have a lot more invested in the game, so large changes are going to affect that player base a lot less.
However, survivor-players are was less invested in this game. If the developer release something this unfair to survivor players and you are going to see them leave really quickly.
Are the developers just wanting survivor-players to quit in mass, because you release this extremely unfair and biased patch and survivor-players are just going to quit this game.
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You said same thing about Deathslinger and we know how that went...
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Oh man. Every social is killer sided and all killer mains, by default, more tenacious?
That's some copium.
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Someone has hero complex here.
Yeah, we all know how you are last survivor standing defending everyone.
Are you really complaining that killers play more, which is not really true anyway, when lot of them went on break.
Well, we will see when those matchmaking rewards for each role get live, that will be interesting to see.
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"Killer players are tenacious,"
While Killer players might take that as a compliment, it falls short from the reality.
The word you were looking for is sadomasochistic.
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Yes there are only killer players and survivors players and nobody ever plays both sides.
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Which social media platform has more survivors on it. Survivors, aren't invested in this game, like I said before. you don't see hardly any on social media platforms. But obviously you have, so where are the media platforms where it's predominately survivor players posting?
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He never said Off the Record would be broken. How would it be broken? How does 80 potential seconds of NOT doing the objective sound broken?
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You're exaggerating.
I spent 600 hours maining killer, before I ever even tried survivor.
Now, about 1k hours in, with about 200 of that being survivor - it's not that bad.
Killer is definitely the more demanding role, but a lot of the frustrations arise when you bring a silly build or a killer you're learning and run into a monster squad.
Survivor is by far the most frustrating role, as a lot of how much you get to play depends entirely on how the killer wants to approach the game.
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Literally all over this, and every other thread being posted. Are you not reading them? Are you only using your clicker when you see a killer post? Just look at all the complaining.
Like, we can't make you see the other survivors if you refuse to.
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Otzdarva may only be one person but he’s articulate, thinks clearly and there’s a reason he’s popular. He is not infallible and not everyone agrees with him but nobody agrees with everything one person says. He also takes into account a lot of factors like beginners and people with disabilities when discussing things. His review on every single perk in existence up to Artist/Jonah is excellent and acknowledges some are beginner perks and others are useful for people with disabilities even if he himself doesn’t find them useful.
Most notably his concerns about Dead Hard are real. Testing may prove us wrong but honestly we have suffered that perk enough. 75% of players use it at high mmr and it competes with other exhaustion perks on top of that. The other high usage perks especially on killer are a response to the meta. Dead Hard is simply absurdly strong and should have been nerfed into unrecognisable pieces or do something else entirely.
You can listen to everyone and give everyone’s feedback equal weight but you can’t please everyone. Everybody has biases, some more obvious then most. However games that have a council or group of higher rated players who use a large portion of the game to give balance feedback is proven to work. If you ask them to think about lower skilled players they will. Streamer or not it doesn’t matter.
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I like watching Otz but I haven't had the opportunity to watch his reaction to the latset developer update.
However I feel at least the first two bullet point presented here are unfair. In the anniversary stream they very openly said that they intended to change the most used perks while updating some others to compensate. Never did they say they would change every single perk that could use changing, nor would this even be possible in a single update.
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I play both sides and sometimes playing killer feels like just bullying the survivors. Nut there is real bullying in either side for example bully squad with head on and flaslight and killers who slug and bleed everyone out and killer who pretend to give hatch or gate for survivor but then betrade.
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I feel its bullying a killer when they barely get 1-2 hooks in the game with the looping and gen speeds we have these days. + bodyblocking etc etc.
I do my best to never BM a killer as a survivor but i feel awful after those games. I tend to try to give a hook or 2 for blooodpoints though
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I'll give you what I think the new survivor bully squad build is.
Off the record, Decisive Strike, Mettle of Man, Dead Hard
So imagine this scenerio if you will.
I am Dwight, you chase me and I go down. I am unhooked and my team mate who is injured after getting off the hook. You the killer have come back to the hook and are looking to down the injured survivor. But I body block (first body block) even though it's been 15 seconds I still have the endurace effect due to off the record, You then change targets to me and when you think that you've downed me, you eat a DS because after all you're a filthy tunneling killer. The chase continues and right as you start your swing animation I react and protect myself with Dead Hard, and run away, resetting the chase. You continue the chase but everytime you are about to down me another survivor takes a body block hit. But eventually, I'm downed again. I am saved from the hook and this time as you swing to hit the unhooker, I am able to get in front of them and you hit me again! (How could you do this to me) But it's ok because now I've got 2 stacks of MoM. Me and my team mate both leave towards the exit. As I reach the doorway, both me and the other survivor wait at the door. You hit me again, but I dead hard and get my 3rd stack of Mettle of Man. This is enough time wasted that all generators are completed. But alas, I am injured now, in deep wounds and you the killer are close enough that you feel that I must be within reach to at least get one kill this match. But alas, As you hit me a final time, MoM activates my teammate opens the door and I am out.
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Thank you for clarifying this.
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Its not even possible for a game like this where majority of players play survivor, that all social media is killer sided, that is totally not true.
Twitter alone is one big survivor fest, sure they may wanna date some of the killers, but overall, not even close to killer sided socials LOL
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My first few DBD games were as surv, but the next 600~ hours were killer, and then my last 1300~ hours have been about 2/3 surv, so I've settled in at about 50/50 overall, and I feel like I have a pretty balanced perspective.
I agree that killer is by far the more demanding (and stressful) role, you have to be "always on", with zero downtime (unless you are a facecamper), and no teammates to take up any slack. It's all you, all the time.
Survivor is more frustrating insofar as you are not in full control of your fate, and there are certain situations where you are helpless (being facecamped by a Bubba, for example) but overall it's definitely a less stressful experience than killer.
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The dudes been on copium for a very long time. I usually don't even quote him unless I see a REALLY out-of-touch take like this one.
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I think both roles have their stresses. On one hand, if I fail as killer, it's embarrassing - but at the end of the day, I just lost the game for myself.
If I fail as survivor, I can lose the game for 3 other people.
I'd say killer is by far the more stimulating role, as you're always active, while survivor is long stretches of boredom and then short stretches of panic.
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Off the record isn't OP at all. Imagine a survivor running into the killer for 2 minutes straight doing absolutely nothing except for running. It's just a glorified (old) Borrowed time that acts more of 50/50 if the killer will even swing and second, if the survivor will make any use of that time not spent repairing or healing others.
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This is a straight-up lie. When it comes to Facebook alone all 4 of the DBD groups that i am or used to be in have a very heavy (and, unfortunately, very loud and rude) survivor presence. And that's n2m that if you ever dare to speak positively about any changes that may make survivors weaker, you get people leaping down your throat. That happens on Twitter and public Discords too. We all see it.
Would like to hear an example of an enviroment youre speaking of. I'll even take a personal anecdote. Statements like yours get said all the time by apparent survivor mains and they need to be checked more often.
Edit: oh, they're banned.....welp.
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