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Why is BT getting buffed in the meta perk nerf?
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It's 7% of 4.0 - Your math is off.
Edited to clarify further - 4.00 * 1.07 = 4.28 m/s
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im not confused though lmao. The devs didn’t want killers to camp and tunnel so why would they nerf the perk that directly prevents killers from tunneling? lmfao
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fixed
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No worries!
I do that stuff all the time when discussing perks - It's definitely an easy mistake, especially on the weekend :P
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"Just wait 1x s of bt, the survivor while never find a window or pallet, then down him and wait until his DS run out, meanwhile the other survivors will stroll around, taking pictures of the map"
You just sound like someone who play killer for archives and during event.
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Fair, but BT and OTR need to be disabled in the end game just like DS. Killer options are far more limited in that time.
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This reasoning leaves a lot to be desired when the new changes go live.
With increased gen times and chase potential it makes little sense to punish the survivors for completing gens now that it's harder to achieve. There’s still the unhooker in endgame. Why should we disable all anti-tunneling options in endgame, barring mini BT which is going to be very hit-or-miss? Perks are the only realistic defense they have against tunneling, as bodyblocking is countered by many powers. They have to commit their loadout for something that is basekit for killers at all times.
It seems to me like it would literally leave the unhooked with marginal options, while, as I said, the unhooker is still available. And they had to complete a longer objective to reach that stage of the trial.
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DH is still gonna be decent. Just better against killers that have to commit to a swing(most m2'2) compared to m1's where their only hits are m1's.
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I entirely disagree with many of the upcoming changes - longer gen repair times being one of them. But survivors shouldn’t be entitled to free escapes because of X number of stackable second chance perks in the end game. If multiple survivors reached that point, they can rescue their teammate through good teamwork and basekit altruism.
They messed up DS not by making it deactivate in end-game, but lowering the stun and not compensating elsewhere. That’s when second chance perks (in this case, a pure anti-tunneling perk) should shine.
Edit: not to mention survivors can still make rescuing plays with flashlights and toolboxes in the end game, and still have other perks to help prevent a hook.
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if the survivor is running to a window they arent using borrowed time to body block a hit for another survivor so what you just described is you tunneling a survivor. YOU are the type of people the devs were trying to stop with this update. Guess it’s working. Sorry your non skilled ways to win won’t work anymore. Thanks for proving my point even more
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That's not a bt nerf though. They even said themselves "the bt affect is longer from the current version". Since it EXTENDS the basekit bt by 10 seconds for 15 seconds of bt AND 7% faster movement speed. Also 4 unbreakables doesn't seem balanced to me. It's literally denying your teams punishment for being snowballed in most cases as if a killer wins by slugging every down with no one around (unless its nurse or oni) then your teammates were just bad.
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???
I don't think you ever played killer once, not even for archives.
Have a nice day :)
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People will just camp survivors out/force more trades at Stage 2 if these become meta, as there is no other way to disable them aside from removing the player.
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True, which is why it is baffling the devs are buffing camping instead of nerfing it.
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As for entitlement, there's none. They need perks to counter tunneling. That's how the game is designed. Tunneling is basekit. Countering is band-aided with perks. And it's not a free escape, as the trade is very likely. But without perks, the outcome where all get out would never be possible, which would be terrible design.
If you really want to talk about entitlement, then by taking out anti tunneling tools in endgame, you are the one who's implying the killer should be entitled to a kill by virtue of standing at the hook after failing to stop the gens. Removing anti-tunneling in endgame allows for situations where a killer could literally go afk all game, down someone and guarantee the kill. It's the same flaw that obliterated Deathgarden, i.e. a game where you rely on your team but the team can't help you.
And come on, flashlights and toolboxes. This is the same reasoning of survivors telling killers to use lightborn or mad grit.
I mean, I don't want to drag this out. So, we can agree to disagree.
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Survivors tunnel generators so killers tunnel survivors. Chases at high levels of play are longer right now than it takes to finish a generator. That may change due to what will happen with DH but we will have to wait and see.
The problem the devs have not sorted out is that removing a survivor is a permanent -25% reduction to generators being finished. Killers need that kind of power in a perk or they will just tunnel someone out - no matter what.
The increased gen times are not really going to matter much for most games. Overall the changes are very soft when you consider survivors can complete their objective in about 4 minutes and the killer needs about 6-8 minutes.
I have an idea that 10 seconds is an eternity for the DBD staff trying to extend a chase vs a killer. The reality is that killers will likely be losing ground with the changes as survivors get a free perk basekit. Killers should have gotten some form of basekit corrupt to prevent gen rushing. That perk is not going to be worth it for 95% of killers anyore.
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You literally can. Corrupt, Dead Man's Switch, Grim Embrace, Thrilling Tremors, Deadlock all block generators. Pentimento and Thanataphobia reduce generator speeds. So, no, tunneling is not the only answer.
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Corrupt will only be viable on a very few killers - those with setup time or special cases like Legion.
DMS doesn't push people off the gens and will lose all combination effects with Scourge HPR. That means you have to walk across the map to push them off - meaning it does nothing.
TT doesn't push people already working on a generator.
Deadlock will be one of the few gen defense perks not touched by the update and it will see a lot more use.
Grim Embrace is an interesting idea but it's a one time effect and is generally not worth a perk slot.
Pentimento is completely worthless. First you have to waste valuable perk slots on hex totems and then the survivors must break those totems. This perk might have been viable if the first effect were to make pentimento totems unbreakable (meaning the survivors must never break toetms once that totem is relit). You will only get the 5x effect against the noobiest noobs who ever noobed - and you wont need any perks to beat that level of player.
Thanatophobia overall is a weak perk because you can only keep the effect active on Legion and Plague. Healing is going to be even faster next patch with BK getting a buff to +50% heal speed. BK+ medkit means nobody will stay injured.
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The argument wasn't whether or not these perks were effective, it was that it is, in fact, possible to stop survivors "tunneling gens". What isn't possible is stopping a killer from tunneling. If a killer wants you out of the game, all you can do is delay the inevitable.
You claimed that there is no killer perk that reduces generator efficiency by 25%, to which I countered that Thana and Pentimento both reduce gen speeds.
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And Dying Light; and Thana is being buffed for some ungodly reason with the patch too. A patch that is already increasing generator repair times by 10 seconds each. Facecamping Bubba may just be able to secure a 4K with even less effort with some of these changes.
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the BT changes are good. My sanity can't take no BT no more, even though I'm a filthy hypocrite and never run it myself. BT is going back to its or iginal 15 second value right? I don't think it's going to change how I play much
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"The argument wasn't whether or not these perks were effective," - If a perk is not an effective counter but only a theoretical one then the point stands. Are we going to use theoretically effective stealth perks like bite the bullet since IW exists? No.
There is no permanent reduction in gen speed by 25% that actually works. Dying light for example in theory does something great but you will never get the hooks in time to get the bonus.
Since you get -25% quickly by tunneling then that is the answer until we get perks that give us more. Either that or chases need to be WAY faster.
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The point usn't to nerf BT. The point is to reduce BT's usage. This is accomplished both by implementing 5 seconds of baseline BT, and by buffing Off The Record.
I prefer Off The Record meta to BT meta, as it lets survivors choose for themselves whether endurance off a hook is worth a perk slot, rather than needing to bring BT for the sake of others.
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You can have survivors with the new perk buffs repair a clean 187 second or 3.11 minute gen with penti + 4 man thana or 240 second gen or 4 minutes with penti + 3 man thana + buffed gift of paon.
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when a survivor main doesnt acknowledge survs uses new otr or bt offensively
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You seem to think that someone running around you with BT is more annoying than that person getting healed then getting on a gen? Or DS that can only be used if you down someone then pick them up or pull them out of a locker when its obvious what they're trying to do? And if you're a survivor main, cool. I play both sides.
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BT is pointless with OtR change. It just shifts the burden to you having the perk equiped.
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The point usn't to nerf BT. The point is to reduce BT's usage. And yet the base kit BT effect will be in every game. The new parent BT perk needs to be weak so that people don't bother. The new effect is better than the current effect so it will get more usage.
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No but when unhooked survs bodyblocking the unhooker or paths to them giving them more time and distance and if the unhooked has ds all that time wasted i play both sides and its a strong strat
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All I'll say is why pair botany knowledge and self care when you can use the healing boon instead for a way faster heal, this is what I worry about. and IW imo was a good nerf as crouching helps muffle grunts which more likely would work good enough. Also isn't lucky break getting buffed and it does what Iron will does AND hides your blood pools so maybe instead of focusing on certain perks we wait until the ptb comes out. On the topic tho I do find it weird buffing bt when it will be basekit. I'm happy that I can replace bt with kindred now tho
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The devs decided that having endurance is such a good effect that survivors shouldn't need tonpay a perk slot for it. Survivors will have more perk variety. A big problem from a solo survivor POV is the obligation to run BT so you don't farm your team when the killer is canping. This is no longer the case, as survivors have two good self-anti-tunnel perks instead of one self-anti-tunnel (DS) and one teammate anti-tunnel (BT)
Anti-tunnel perks are not inherently bad, which is why BT didn't and still doesn't need a nerf.
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BT needs to not have an increased effect so usage goes down. It should probably only extend the effect 5 seconds so that it's not really worth using. But when you add 10 seconds you massively increase the effect.
People are accustomed to using BT so they will keep using BT.
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If nothing changes from what the devs have stated is being released, OTR will 100% replace BT. There is really no reason to run BT over OTR.
Edit: typo.
Post edited by GoshJosh on0 -
This is not true and I will tell you why. I run STBFL on Nemy and I usually end games with 8 stacks. I will effectively have 10 stacks.
If I whip or punch you for damage as soon as your feet land you will get hit again in under 10 seconds. It is my intention to always attack the person unhooking before they touch a survivor. If I am "late" then I only get to hit the unhooker once. Then I chase the unhooked.
If you have BT giving you a 7% speed burst for 15 seconds you can run far enough to guarantee you get to a tile of some kind.
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They want fewer people feeling they NEED to run Borrowed Time and they did that by including some of it in the base game for everybody. Now if a survivor doesn’t feel like using that perk they can run something else and not think they’re screwing their team.
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its not really a meta nerf, they want killrates to go up, but by making gens take more time, tunneling is also going to be easier, so all perks relating to tunneling have been buffed.
This means you're supposed to tunnel less. BT is not going to be an issue if you dont tunnel, in fact, BT will most likely help you. Survivors now need to spend 10 seconds longer on each gen. Someone needing to mend for 14 seconds is beneficial.
Also, they pretty much had to make Off The Record the way it is right now, because: 1. killers already waited 15 seconds before old BT was done, when BT got nerfed to 12 seconds so killers could have a second option if they needed to tunnel, instead you had killers simply wait 12 seconds and tunnel harder. Now they added a perk where you would need to wait the entirety of a generator before you can hit once. Meaning you're forced to hit and have to assume you cannot down a survivor who just got unhooked.
Since this means, you're gonna go after the unhooker, because that would be literally faster.
Personally, the only change that would be needed IMO is that survivors with Endurance effect will no longer have a collision with anyone else, so they cannot block their teammates, they cannot block killers and teammates cannot block them. This effect should linger 5 seconds after the endurance effect is gone, so you cant use your own collision to check if you can walk through them.
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None of this explains why they buffed borrowed time. It doesn't matter if less people would use it, they still buffed one of the most frequently used meta perks.
By that logic, they should have buffed pain resonance, and told everyone that because the game will have more base kit slowdown, that less people would fell the need to use pain resonance.
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That's cool and all but this is going to give survivors effectively an extra perk slot. What did killers get? A 90% nerfed base kit pop - WOW!
I would be perfectly ok with survivors getting a 90% nerfed base kit BT. That would mean the killer has to wait about 1/2 a second after your feet hit the ground before they attack you.
This is exactly on point.
"This means you're supposed to tunnel less."
It will make me tunnel even harder because corrupt and pop were nerfed to oblivion. There is no "basekit" reduction in gen speeds by 25%. Perks like Call of Brine+ Overcharge will be perfectly suited to camping a survivor around a 3 gen. Unlike pop you can kick repeatedly without needing a hook first.
The chases in DBD are just too long vs good survivors unless 1/4 players is dead (and killed quickly). Most games at high MMR play out in one of two ways. When you down someone :
1) survivors stay on generators because they know dying on the hook takes a while
2) survivors want to unhook the person quickly.
With option one you camp the survivor on a 3 gen and you don't leave. Someone will usually show up around stage 2 and you drive them away and this forces other people off their generators. When the rescue happens you tunnel the last guy out and return to your 3 gen.
With option two you can down the rescued survivor again very quickly. You might even kill someone before only 1-2 generators are left. If you have strong slowdown perks you can actually not have to tunnel anyone else the rest of the game.
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Killers got a 10 second base game gen slow down. That's a significant increase. I can't count how many times as a killer main that I've been at a generator that just barely finished which wouldn't be done with this new 90 second time.
Also most of the killer gen slow down perks were buffed. Ruin is much worse now (I won't use it), Pop is mildly worse but still decent, Corrupt is slightly worse but still good, and Pain Resonance actually regresses more than the current version (since it's now 15% of 90 seconds instead of 80 seconds). Meanwhile all the other slowdowns are either the same or buffed, including one or two that got really major buffs (e.g. Overcharge).
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Not every perk listed in the changes was meant to be a nerf, and BT is a must for tunneling, even with it becoming basekit. Its only 5 seconds, thats really not that much. So BT still serves its purpose. If you don't want to run it, great, everyone still gets a little something, but if you want actual BT, the basekit change doesn't make it not worth running. All in all, the only people who have a problem with BT are tunnelers... couldn't care less about them anyway XD
Plus, it not being able to be used in endgame is still a decent nerf to the perk.
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They literally are just replacing BT with OTR, though. It isn’t even questionable. OTR will be a must in every survivor’s load out.
BT wasn’t nerfed at all. It’s still going to be usable in the end game. Only DS was nerfed to not.
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So you want to hard tunnel a survivor off hook, and are mad you can’t? Sounds like a you problem.
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ah, my mistake on that, I was thinking of DS but thought it was both for some reason. Still don't think it needed a nerf. I think is needed that buff even with a "borrowed time lite" is becoming basekit. I'm even fine with what they did to Off The Record, except the time duration is WAY too long. But all in all, they did nothing for camping, and what they did for tunneling should only matter to tunnelers. if you want to tunnel (in general, not calling anyone specific a tunneler) should have to work for it.
Also I worry the basekit borrowed time is going to have the negative effect of teammates just unkooking willy nilly bc "hey, we all have borrowed time right?" But 5 seconds really isn't THAT much, but I feel like teammates are going to just unhook in front of the killer anyways, even if they weren't going to tunnel, and really didn't get a chance to actually leave the hook. I can't stand getting unhooked like 5 seconds after getting hooked when I can still see the killer but see they gave me borrowed time. It really doesn't make you invincible, and you can still be easily tunneled, but some survivors think BT is a "free unhook" but its only an extra line of defense IF the killer is ACTUALLY going to tunnel. But if a survivor gets unhooked in front of a killer, what are they supposed to do, ignore it LOL? I don't when I play killer. So the new basekit BT is going to be Farm City, USA in a lot of solo queues LOL
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That’s why I think that it’s out of the question that survivors won’t run OTR. All of its current effects plus endurance for up to 80 seconds (if you don’t do anything) will ensure protection from killers and careless teammates alike.
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agreed. People are going to run the PISS out of this LOL. Surely they're going to tweek a few of these nerfs/buffs after the PTB. BHVR is BHVR but surely they'll see there needs to be a few tweeks.
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Once again, the perks stop survivors from tunneling gens. Their efficiency is a different argument. There is no survivor perk that outright stops the killer from tunneling.
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Now, they buffed BT cause of camping and tunneling. it was one of the most used perks exactly to counter those.
So if the changes decrease the instances of camping and tunneling it will not, by any means, remain a meta perk. And I think that’s exactly the point they’re trying to make. The perk is so strong now that it makes no sense wasting time going after the surv affected by bt or otr.
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BT is getting buffed but it is way less mandatory than before so it will be less frequent imo.
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they're just inflating kill rates with solo players. shuts up some of the annoyingly loud killer playerbase and encourages survivor players to get their friends to buy and spend money on the game.
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I honestly do not see the point in all these complaints....The game will never be properly balanced, and the changes to the perks they are doing will cause the imbalance to just be more blatantly obvious. The game simply has too many killers and too many mechanics and powers to properly balance it all out.
Lets see what happens once these changes are actually out.
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