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have entity block windows to end camping
title. If you want to give survivors more protection against camping then why not also end looping by blocking windows for 5 seconds or so after a player vaults over them to give killers some frustration relief that causes camping? Make it happen inherently, I'm not talking about making this a new perk.
looping is a huge problem, especially for slower killers, and can easily buy survivors a huge amount of time with a small amount skill/map knowledge. Inherently block windows after a single vault for 5-10 seconds would prevent this, would make many killers more viable, and would end a lot of the frustration that leads to camping.
Comments
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So getting rid of looping will stop every single killer from camping. I don’t see any flaw in this plan /s
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There are 2 Perks that do that, Bamboozle and Hex: Crowd Control (
I forgot the name)Post edited by ThatOneDemoPlayer on12 -
wot
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And theres already a perk to shield survivors off hook, its called borrowed time but thats not stopping the devs.
Did I say that it would? This would definitely help more than giving all survivors borrowed time and off the record buff
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Tell me you want free downs without telling me you want free downs.
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Hex: Crowd Control. This post is Hex: New DbD forum user.
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I'm talking about making it inherent, not a perk.
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Bamboozle is useless. They still go jungle gym from vault to vault.
You cannot even use it with Bubba.
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Oh I know you are. Which is exactly why I said what I said.
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Survivors cry too much.
- Body block complain
- Block windows demand
- Gen time increase is not enough
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Just start all four survivors on hooks.
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so you're just afraid of new opinions then or can't explain why this is a bad idea?
Looping is no skill map abuse that can buy a ######### ton of time for survivors unless killer immediately gives up chase. Many slower killers can get looped indefinitely. Are you saying this is good game design then? Even without looping you can mindgame to buy plenty of time so please explain why looping should continue to exist other than to provide literal escape areas against some killers at best and buy an extra 30 seconds to a minute against other killers at worst
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What if they kobe and rob the killer of a hard fought and well earned 4k?
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Maybe rework cruel limits into a scourge hook that does that?
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Why OP certainly went a bit overboard with their rage, its comments like this here that totally derail any sort of real discussion about a problem, be it real or perceived.
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Simple the entitiy just kills them if they kobe.
Problem Solved :)
Take that survivor second chances
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The absolute irony of this post when there are multiple posts on this forum complaining because a good nurse can't be looped.
Gen time increase will help some killers at highest levels of play. For most killers it will not be enough to make a difference and is outclassed by perk changes imo
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looping is fun for both sides the possible outplays, the clever use of your power as killer and your game knowledge as a survivor is what makes things interesting, it just stops being fun for killer when survivors get the most broken maps.
maps should be balanced which i hope becomes something the devs pay attention to in the future and this upcoming patch makes me hopeful.
believe it or not if the upcoming patch is done right this could be the best time to play killer.
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I would agree with this if looping is done completely with mind games as it should be, but like I said and like you also pointed out many maps are broken and its even worse for many slow or low tier killers that depend on winning chases.
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I demand more spirit
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Maybe because tunneling is unhealthy for the game while looping isn't?
Yes, Bubba is weak against Windows, your point?
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This is not a very good suggestion. I wish people understood game design.
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"bad game design is whatever I don't like"
lul.
Most of my hours are on survivor, I don't really like being tunneled or camped either but it's even worse playing a killer that can get looped indefinitely and forced to give up chase - not because of a skill differential but because of speed and map abuse.
If I continue getting looped out of killers that I want to play then don't ######### complain when I start camping and running nurse wit NOED more.
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Right? Jesus at least think before you post something…
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Kinda ironic, This would result in the killer downing the first survivor more easy so he can start camping sooner.
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imagine actually reading the post
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Sorry, what?
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Windows already do get blocked if a survivor uses them multiple times in a short period during a chase. If you want it blocked faster you should use a perk that blocks it faster.
The basekit endurance will only be 5 seconds, if survivors want it extended they need to run a perk to extend the time.
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Looping is kinda the main part of the game. If youre losing most of the loops as killer, youre doin somethin wrong. Im not sayin that to be mean.. trying to help. I play mostly m1 killers like freddy, trapper, pinhead, n pig with few problems winning loops at above average mmr....but ive also been playing since console launch.
OhTofu (on YT) did a whole series waaaay back where ppl would send gameplay n hed point out what they did wrong n how to play better. The game has changed a lot since then, but the fundamentals still apply. You could also watch old Monto videos. He was pretty good at explaining why he was doing somethin as he was playing. Check that stuff out n you will find it much easier to win loops. Seriously.
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Looping does require skill, the difference between a 20 second chase and a 5 gen chase is literally based on mindgaming skill. Slower killers cannot get looped indefinitely, plenty of resources and/or actions the killer can do to prevent that from happening. Either 1 of the following 2 scenario's are happening if the killer is being looped indefinitely:
- the survivor is 100x more skilled in mindgaming and you've fallen for it every single time that it mattered
- the killer is switching targets too often, and refuses to dedicate to a chase with anyone
Both instances are the killer's fault.
As for mindgaming a killer, sure, mindgame a killer for 15 seconds around without any pallets or windows, literally hold shift+w and run against a wall, oh wait? You get hit in 10 seconds, oh, whats this? the killer gets their attack refreshed faster, the survivor gets less distance and now the killer can shave off 5 additional seconds off a chase since there are no windows and pallets, and just gains free 5% after 15 seconds. So you'd be downed within 30 seconds without any loops. And that is pure m1 killers, excluding abilities.
Killer abilities alone means that loops should exist. Otherwise the maximum chasetime is 40 seconds. Even with mindgames, because while a good mindgame can buy 2 seconds of time, that 5% bonus buys the killer much more time per chase. So if you want to remove loops, all killer abilities might aswell be removed, this would also solve killers who can facecamp very easily. Since there are no more abilities, might aswell make everyone 115%. Since they are 115%, they would all have a 32 meter terror radius, and since they all have no abilities to hide the TR, they wouldnt need lullaby's either. But that would mean all killers are the exact same character, just with a different skin.
Removing the ability of looping would literally reduce the killer gameplay to Spasmodic Breath Nurse gameplay, permanently. So what's your choice? Keep loops or keep killer abilities, you cant have both.
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I get if you disagree with me but now you're just being ridiculous
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a solution to camping would be to make the killer incapacitated when he's withing a certain area of the hook of a hanging survivor. it would makes graps not possible anymore and camping would be highly discouraged. what do you think?
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Only as long as it applies literally right after they hook someone. They are WAY took close to the hook at that point. Also, no cooldown on the incapacitation.
Killer will still be OP, but maybe, just MAYBE, Survivor will finally have a chance in high MMR.
Now we just need a way to balance Rock Paper Scissors. Rock is overpicked because it dominates the meta. Scissors needs a buff, and Paper needs to be outright removed.
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“Looped indefinitely”? Are you still somehow on a build of DbD from 2017?
Yeah, this is certainly a case of git gud.
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I played every single killer, not a single killer can be looped indefinitely. If you've been looped indefinitely, you've been playing against survivors who are at least 3x as good as you are.
"they can stun with flashlight and grenade upon pickup"
So, every survivor gains either a flashlight or a flash grenade basekit, no more durability, got it.
"there are places where they can basically disappear into bushes"
Ah, but there is a thing called sound. They might visually disappear, but you can perfectly hear which direction they are from your POV. If they went ahead of you into a bush, you can hear footsteps on your left or right, and bam, problem solved.
"with 3 gens left, a 20 second chase is all you need", no, you dont, because gens will take 90 seconds, that means you need a 90 second chase to pop. Otherwise you can hook them, so 1 would need to go for the unhook, 1 would be on the gen, and 1 would be in chase. Ruin alone would regress gens fast enough, Pop, Call of Brine, Overcharge and Pain Resonance would slow the game more than enough to down a survivor within the next 60 seconds, meaning out of those 3 gens, maybe 1 has popped. And repeat.
Since there are no loops, 20 seconds chase means you can down and hook a survivor within 40 seconds of finding them. So you can chase 1 survivor off a gen, use Overcharge+pop, go to the next gen, use Overcharge again, and now at least 1 generator will be regressing at 400%. Then chase that survivor, hook them again within 40 seconds, and only 1 gen has popped, go to the one gen you kicked first before and now you've gained 2 hooks for the price of only 1 gen, and the rest being practically 0% progression.
That means on paper, you would easily have 10 hooks on 5 gens, only 2 survivors surviving, both on dead hook, so you can slug for a 4k easily. This is already quite bad. But it gets worse, with that optimal survivor strategy, you can kill 1 survivor in about 5 hooks(they would HAVE to work on gens, heal teammates or unhook them), so no risk of DS, or they basically tell you that you've gained a ton of time. Since the first survivor would die at 2.5 gens being done, now you'd have 1 survivor on hook, 1 in chase and 1 in need of unhooking+healing. Since there are no loops, you can now guarantee to kill your second survivor, assuming you didnt do so before(which you could have done). Leaving only 1 survivor that can do chase, and 1 that can do gens. Now maybe the 3rd gen pops, you have 1 survivor on hook, and 1 that cannot be on gens, they are either trying to unhook, or in chase.
So now, to make it fair for survivors, 2 generators are being removed from the game because there are no more windows and pallets.
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on most maps you can easily loop most killers around killer shack for 1+ minute drop pallet, move to next loop, juke killer once move to next loop etc. etc etc.
in the right set up you can loop killer for long enough for the rest of your team to unlock every generator.
Should the killer keep chasing? Of course not. Thats my point. A good killer knows when hes at a disadvantage and will immediately change who hes chasing. To do this right now is extremely easy and you're either lying or just bad if you claim you can't do this against most killers. It doesn't mean that the killer automatically loses, it just means that if you don't give up chase then you're probably gonna lose - that is bad game design imo.
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No, it is perfect game design. It means killers can’t just mindlessly go after one person until they down them and still win the game (at least sometimes). It’s what sets apart good killers from bad ones.
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dude, you can still easily mindgame and draw out a chase by 15+ seconds without looping. And the only thing that would change by making it slightly harder to loop is survivors would actually have to ... you know... *hide* more instead of being able to run up and faceroll killers with 4 swf.
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Windows already block themselves base kit after 3 vaults, nothing will end camping even if the devs hit camping hard with a base game punishment for it like gens get done Uber fast while someone is being camped killers will still do it for the bm
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You can check my Twitter for unlimited Spirit supplies
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"Maybe because tunneling is unhealthy for the game while looping isn't?"
hahahhahahahahahahahaha
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If ur bad at chases there’s perks for that
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What? Bro there’s no infinite loops no more. I think the only one that comes close to that is that one in backwater swamp.
also, hate to break it to you but nurse with or without noed will not make up for lack of experience and skill. Just fyi
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Why is your take on everything today just bad?
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Oh, i always do but its never enough. ;(
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You're essentially saying we take away the one thing survivors have in their favor? Killers are faster than survivors, not to mention many of them have range attacks or instant-down powers so removing looping would essentially constantly give killers free downs. That makes no sense whatsoever.
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Doing this wouldn't prevent camping, let alone end it - if someone wants to camp they will do so.
If you find that some windows in this game are so strong that they can't be mindgamed and have to just be brute forced, then I'd argue your actual feedback should be for reducing the strength of those windows via map design rather than implementing this base mechanic that will make very strong windows weaker and weaker windows incredibly weak. I also don't personally want the devs to implement a new mechanic that encourages survivors to just pre throw a pallet and hold W to another loop as I find playing tiles/loops far more interesting than that.
To reduce camping, BHVR would need to implement base game mechanic changes to camping that make camping an incredibly detrimental thing to do that clearly communicates to the killer that doing this IS sacrificing further kills to just get one. The problem with it currently is it can actually be effective because the team-based side don't want to just see their team-mate die, so they approach the hook and try to rescue them which means they sacrifice their objective time to attempt to counter it, as it can often take MULTIPLE team-mates to rescue the camped survivor. The most efficient counter to it is slamming generators out, which isn't an enjoyable or engaging thing to do when your team-mate is hanging on a hook. This is made much more effective against Solo Qs.
I don't know what the answer to it is unfortunately (though I'd argue adding Kindred base kit would at least help towards it from a Solo Q perspective), but I do know that changing chase mechanics isn't the answer. There are people out there that camp for a multitude of reasons, from someone clicking a flashlight at them, to a survivor being decent in a chase, to the simplest form of "I just find camping funny." and the solution you've proposed does very little to prevent that.
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But BT doesnt save you from hook camping does it? It saves you from getting inta downed it doenst even save you from tunneling rofl
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Looping is an integral part of the game and it does take some skill which is where newer players tend to struggle.
As a killer, you also get bloodlust plus perks to help you to shut down loops if you're struggling. I completely understand when you are new it can be hard to learn how to play around a survivor who is good at looping and learning specific tiles, there are quite a few YouTube videos out there that explains tiles in more detail and how to play them. But I can definitely say, looping is not going anywhere - chases are one of the main parts of the game.
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Stealth is heavily nerfed by the map reworks, you want to nerf looping more than already planed, and pallets are only good once, in the beginning of the match. without looping or any way to conserve them, they are gone fast and then there is no protection anymore.
Since solo survivors can not coordinate well enough in most cases, how do you expect them to be able to win? (if you agree with me that the possibility should exist in the first place, maybe you are not).
i would be very interested in your thoughts on this, and this has to include killers like blight which you cant just escape with holding shift + w.
(and just to make it clear, i am a solo survivor main that does play both sides, and i dislike looping in both roles. To me, its the most boring aspect of the game. as survivor, i prever stealth, because making the killer lose you in a chase is much more satisfying for me, however with map reworks there are very few options left to do that, and with the iron will nerf it becomes harder again. so i see that looping is needed, since there is nearly nothing left for solo survivors).
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