Should Iron Will really get nerfed? (spine chill,self-care)
I appriciate the effort put on this update,and I believe teh community is pleased with many of the changes.
But my main concern is that nerfing iron will and buffing botany knowledge along with the dead hard nerf is a great way to promote healing.
I mean I personally would rather have an injured survivor who makes no sound that a survivor who runs a medkit,with bite the bullet,botany and lithe or sprint burst.
Is just a thought that there are so many other ways to be silent and thats healing.
When I do play survivor I honestly get annoyed by grants of pain and worst part is that on soloQ is rare I am gonna co-op with team as much.
I do understand spirit mains,I am a spirit player myself,and Honestly just remove the breathing part which was a '' bug''.
I think spine chill is really strong against stealthy killers,and I do agree it would need a change.
But with the changes it got right now is basically useless. It should just get triggered based on killer terror radious.
If the killer has no terror rad it should trigger at a short distance.
Plus removing the 4% makes it useless.
Another concern is self-care on soloQ. Buffing gen time and Nerfing self care (instead of boons) is quite scary for solo survivors.
I can already imagine my team self caring instead of doing gens.
Comments
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Yes, entirely disabling an aspect from the game is extremely strong.
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I mean I'm not happy with half the changes, didn't really fix much tbh
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You guys keep focusing on the nerfs and not the buffs. I play mostly in soloQ (or duo), and imho survivor is going to be stronger now than before. In fact, I would not be surprised if killrates drop.
Before you needed selfcare to heal yourself after being hooked. Now you have 80s of endurance with OTR to find someone or boon a totem.
Or just use a medkit you know ? It’s a free heal without using any perk.
Spinechill was a hard counter to stealth killers. It has to go, so they can finally play how they are suppose to and surprise survivors. You will still be able to hear them coming by focusing on their breathing sound (it’s quite loud).
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Also spine chill could somewhat help chasing as you can now use it to tell if killer is ACTUALLY looking at you or not.
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Short answer : yes
Longer answer : when a survivor is healthy, you can hear them breathe. When they are injured they do ABSOLUTELY NO SOUND whatsoever. Its a busted perk for hiding AND hiding mid chase
It counters killers like ph, nurse, spirit with no effort at all
There is absolutely no downside using this perk and it nullifies a whole mechanic of the game
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well with the spine chill nerf it will not trigger like it used to. It will trigger and stay for a few seconds.So during a chase it might be misleading
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So you would rather get stunned with parental guidance (leaves no scratch marks,blood and you have zero garnts of pain),then survivor has -any exhaustion perk- and heals with bite the bullet (zero sounds when healing) and a ranger medkit.
Cause for all the iron will mains that's what you will face.
Like I said the only way it counters those killers you mentioned, is because it reduces breathing sounds.
Also you can not use it when exhausted.So no one will use it anymore. But if they use it against the nurse,during a chase a good survivor will try to lose visual.During that time he can crouch to reduce grants of pain even more.
Iron will as killer was the least of my problems.
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Well first of all we do not know yet how off the record will actually work,or dead hard.
Also this post is mostly for these nerfed perks and my own opinion.
I mentioned a buffed perk (botany knowledge)
and I openly wrote my own concers,so i do see many other upcoming problems on both sides.
This post is just me openly discussing my opinion,that iron will should not be changed or at least not as much.
The upcoming update changes both sides A LOT. And I am not unhappy with many changes but I do believe both rates will drop if it doesn't work out.
I play both sides,and I know the pain of being in solo Q, also I do know how awful it is when u have a swf abusing a specific build or perk.
Also before calling survivor stronger think about all the killer changes they did.
It would be nice if you spent a few days on soloQ withotu getting upset.
Both sides has their ups and downs.It would be nice if we didn't look at Dead By Daylight as two games. Is one game,with two sides and killers cant play without survivors joining the lobby,and a survivors cant play without a killer.
We better look what's best for the whole community.
And we should take into consideration many aspects.Not us.Mostly behaviour.
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0.5sec is long and short at the same time, I won't say it's too bad.
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Here's the thing the breathing of survivors was never always going on, I didn't even knew they made breathing sounds until I read it here because most of the time the sound dosnt okay or is drowned out by the chase music or the Killers own idle sounds.
IW also negated a entire way for a killer to track survivors. Scratch marks could easily be messed with by another survivor so you can't tell where they went and Blood can vanish in tall grass or clip through the floor in some areas. Not to mention it totally neutralizes Stridor and no perk should be a 100% counter of another perk Survivor or Killer alike.
That being said, I do think they over nerfed it. The most they should of lowered it was to 85-90% and never had the exhaustion part of it.
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Both of those are much better than permanent ultra stealth mode tbh, sound is THAT important in this game.
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Well you will have no sound with both.I can literally heal with bite the bullet and have a spirit phase next to me.
Not only you have no sound but as survivor you heal and then have more time to do gen.
But as you wish.
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Well like I mentioned,if you dont use nurse's calling,survivor will lose visual with -lithe- and heal with a ranger medkit with bite the bullet which allows you to make zero sounds.
Plus personally every time I use Parental Guidance is ridiculou how easy the killer can completely lose you and drop chase.
I still agree with you about 80-90% and the exhaustion.That would be a nice nerf for both sides.
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Well still most survivors will use something else instead of the no value spine chill. I can name 20 perks better than nerfed spine chill including Object,Alert ... (any information perk),even premonition
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Right I started using PG and that has saved many teammates from the Killer.... But with those perks you have to be doing a action or have someone do it to you to receive it so that's fine in my book it's the constantly on IW is the issue.
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There is extremely big difference between something that is limited and something that is permanent.
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Parental guidance has no cooldown and Bite the bullet is unlimited with self-care .
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Still like I said bite the bullet with self care will be a problem at some point for some people.
It is unlimited unless you have nurse's.
Plus with the Lucky Break buff,it can be even more powerful.
Honestly,If there's a killer I love to play the most,is Spirit.
I would rather have an injured survivor than a Survivor who has the ultimate healing build and 20 seconds of BT.
But that's my prespective.
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You're forgetting the basekit buffs to killer, like the shorter basic hit cooldown, quicker pallet breaks, faster blood-lust.
Also, not everyone will use OTR either (and honestly I'll be genuinely surprised if it makes it live as is) and if the killer hits you that endurance is gone. Not to mention, if survivors are waiting out the whole 80 seconds mid-game then it's 80 seconds they've spent doing nothing, which could cost the team the game. It could end up being a hindrance to the team.
Also, new Spine Chill isnt helpful for stealth killers except maybe Pig. It will be based on line of sight now, so Myers and Ghostface are still countered. SC will alert survivors they're being stalked.
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one only works while healing only and one needs to stun killers, it's definitely limited as requirement is big.
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I'm pretty sure the one who don't run OTR is the one who don't run DS/BT tbh.
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If you honestly believe those perks are just as good as the current iron will, then use those other perks and be happy that you have a “just as good” solution.
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Iron Will at 100% was too strong, it needed a nerf. 75% reduction is probably still ok, I’m pretty sure as a killer I’ll have trouble hearing them at that volume. The bigger nerf I think is that it will turn off if the survivor is Exhausted, that’s really going to hurt survivors who run this in combination with an Exhaustion perk or who run it against a killer that inflicts Exhaustion somehow.
I also think Spine Chill needed a nerf, it was a bit too good giving both a really useful tracking alert plus vault speed and action boosts. They may have overnerfed it, though, having it require line of sight sounds like it’s making that tracking MUCH less useful since, after all, if they have line of sight you can see them without the perk anyway (barring maybe Sadako’s invisibility). I won’t be surprised if a lot of current Spine Chill users stop using it altogether.
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Hey guys, killer main here. I think Iron Will is a fun and fair perk that brings a lot of excitement to the game and chase dynamic potential. I never have a problem with it, I just use my eyes! They shouldn't have nerfed it like this, now it's going to be too easy for me to get wins on Spirit. I never had a problem with Dead Hard either, the complaints about it are overblown it's so easy to counter, you just bait it out!
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Iron will and spine chill were the two perks i used in almost every build, so i'm pretty bummed about the nerfs, but it's not like it's the end of the world.
I don't know about you guys, but i'm gonna sub out iron will for off the record, and as for spine chill, it could still be useful, but if it's as bad as people expect, then i might switch it for premonition.
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Move on, both killers and survivors got buffs and nerfs and it focused perks that were mostly meta. I don't think you should rely on not being heard to win chases or the game period. I think they need to add more volume settings so I can lower killer sounds making survivor sounds easier to hear, if that was in the game I think IW might be more accepted.
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No one complained and no one said you should rely on your perks.I just stated my own concerns plus I just liked this perk a lot cause I didn't have to listen to Jill crying whole game.
No need to be aggresive
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Aye I play mostly spirit and huntress.I honestly feel the same way about DH and Iron Will. I think DS got a good nerf (the park on the endgame).I never had a problem with DH or IW honestly.But mostly new players,I understand they might have a hard time facing those perks.
On killer side I like most of the changes.
Is not the end of DBD because they nerfed DH or IW.I am saying that IW is life saving on soloQ without having to waste time self caring in the corner.
About DH or spine chill I do not care as much? Just Iron WIll saved me from headaches since I always have max my headphones.
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Iron Will was extremely powerful with minimal cost.
I'm OK with it getting changed.
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I have tried IW at 75%.And you dont get value. Except if you are doing a locker build.
If IW couldn't be used at exhaustion and was 100% maybe people would still use it.
Now that is both 75% and useless when exhausted,I think people will use more powerfull perk combinations.
For me a survivor with 75% IW ,sound like a survivor with no IW and I play spirit.
As for spinechill I do agree with you.
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It's probably because you play spirit tbh.
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I am saying is a down side for when I play killer. I will look for a survivor and he will be healed in two seconds.Especially on spirit BTB will be op.
I never had an issues with IW. There would be multiple times were the fact that a survivor is injured with IW,would give me the boost I would need to win the game.
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I've never used or cared for IW so comment on that.
Spine chill keeps getting changed around so no comment yet on that.
Self Care though imo was nerf a bit to much. Leave the healing speed at 50% instead of 35% and just remove the bonus charges when using a med kit on yourself since that was most busted.
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I think boon should get nerfed and botany stay as it is . With botany and a good medkit ,inside a boon it will be old boon speed which is ridiculous.
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IW will be utterly useless with the Exhausted condition bs that's going to make it stop working.
Let's say you get unhooked and you have IW and SB, in that scenario you either die because you're saving SB or just waste a perk slot because IW isn't going to work anyways. The same goes for having IW and getting hit whilst suffering from Fearmonger/Blood Echo. It won't work with Overcome either.
So unless you're going to play like a Blendette and just hide in the bushes all game until healed up, it's truly a waste of a perkslot. Idk how you can make a perk worse than No Mither, but BHVR has proven it's possible.
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Either way we definitely agree that Iron Will turning off when you're Exhausted is really going to hurt this perk. Even if it was 90% reduction I suspect a lot of survivors would stop using this simply because of that Exhaustion limitation.
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I don't care for the percentages being nerfed, I just don't like how exhaustion affects it.
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The game needs a new status effect that works like Exhausted. I would call it Fatigued. All of the Exhausted Perks would not work when Exhausted or Fatigued. The big difference is that you can recover from Fatigued while running, and the status is limited to being inflicted by The Killer.
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IMO iron will and spine chill did not need a nerf. At all it’s pointless..
m they changed there mind about spinechill now it’s only heartbeat radius just keep it how it is.. oh 15% I think it is increase to doing thing ohh so OP :/ … really
self care even … it already takes forever to heal
what if I want to play stealthy?
i have a friend who likes to play stealthy he’s only ever used, self care, iron, spine and urban
now his build is completely gutted he said he has not reason to play
honestly who on earth complained about iron will when there is bright blood and orange lines all over the place…..
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Iron Will definitely needed a change but I'm not sure if how they did it is the best. 75% still isn't bad but for a perk it isn't great. Maybe they can increase it to 85%?
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Agree! And remove exhaustion part
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