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Should Exhaustion have downsides?
The game is practically balanced around survivors always having an exhaustion perk. It's basically a no-brainer to always bring one since all exhausion does is stop you from running multiple exhaustion perks and spamming them.
I got the idea from part of the Iron Will nerf, if they make it a little more punishing to have the Exhaustion debuff, then it would actually make it a meanigful choice about whether you should run one or not. You'd have to weigh up the upsides and downsides.
Now it should -not- ever negatively affect a survivor's ability to run from the killer; movement speed, vault speed, all of that should be the same. Gen speeds should also remain consistant and not be affected by exhaustion.
Maybe they could have it so other debuffs take longer to expire if you're currently suffering from exhaustion, like a reverse-Vigil. Maybe healing you recieve or healing you give others is reduced slightly if you're exhausted. Maybe just make other stealth perks less effective or outright not work while you're exhausted.
I'm not saying all of these must happen, and I don't think there needs to be a harsh penalty, just something noticeable that makes a non-exhaustion build actually have -some- upsides and not feel like you're gimping yourself.
Comments
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On one hand, no. Exhaustion was implemented purely as a way to limit the use of powerful chase perks. It only exists to prevent survivors running a Sprint Burst into a Balanced Landing straight into a Lithe followed by a Dead Hard.
That said, if chases are survivor sided, and these perks are pretty much always in play due to how powerful they are, I don't see why it couldn't, or shouldn't be reworked into a chase-limiting mechanic.
Killers are receiving a few minor buffs that will help them in chases, so now is probably not a good time to be suggesting it, but if those buffs don't go far enough, or it does ever become more survivor sided, then...
Exhaustion could prevent the use of fast vaults, turning all fast vaults into medium vaults, or reduce the speed of all vaults by 20%, or something like that. That could be a fair trade for using a powerful chase perk prior.
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They should IMO, running faster than the killer is always gonna be very powerful and just having a mechanic to not use it more than once in chase really isn't a downside enough.
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I'm hesitant to suggest Exhaustion affecting chase in any way since the entire point of bringing an exhaustion perk is to help in chase. If it helped in one way but then just nerfed your ability to fast vault for example then there may be no point at all in bringing one. I think having it so that making your chase stronger but limiting yourself slightly in another area is healthier.
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I mean imagine if they didn't have exhaustion, and each exhaustion perk just had their own cooldown like Old Sprint Burst did. The meta would literally just be 3 or 4 exhaustion perks because they can be that strong.
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Yeah but even a single exhaustion perk on its own that can be ran on everyone... is still incredibly powerful and you don't really have to do anything to earn it.
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Hmm I dont know, medium vaults and fast vaults are a make or break in a chase and exhaustion perks are not equal at all for example head on would not be worth no fast vaults especially sinces its already not easy to pull off. I think they should just look at the perks than exhaustion as a whole.
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I think it should but I don't know what.
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I think a fair effect would be to prevent any buffs while exhausted
It could only negate effects from teammates (ie Kindred, Prove Thyself, Leader, and really anything else except Vigil - since that’s what Vigil is all about.)
Of course, we could make it affect your own perks as well (Resilience, Iron Will, your own Boons, Hope, etc.)
Maybe throw in aura blindness as well, but that could maybe be too big a nerf to Windows of Opportunity.
Personally, I think the most fair idea is the first - just preventing shared effects from teammates.
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As I said, this would be IF chases were survivor sided. Like, instead of bloodlust or something, instead of granting weaker killers a catch up mechanic, it would give stronger survivors a slow-down mechanic. Similar effect, it levels the playing field slightly.
As Bloodlust is actually getting a buff, then this wouldn't be a viable change.
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i mean, exhaustion is the downside. Like @Krazzik meantioned before way back in 2017 u could recover from exhaustion while running. That’s not possible anymore (TG).
it takes at least 40 secs to recover from it and that’s the balance. If they added any other debuff or what have u, wouldn’t make much a difference on M1 killers but on killers such as Spirit,Nurse and Blight it would be easily exploited
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When exhausted irl were slower so after using sprint burst it should inflict Hindred until the exhaustion goes away
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I was thinking or aura blindness are duration reduction but that would only really be a nerf to solo survivors and not SWFs. It would need to be something that would still be felt even by SWF players.
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The downside of exhaustion is that you don't have a 4th perk while you are exhausted. There are plenty of perks you could run to help you in chase that aren't exhaustion perks. If you add an additional downside then you are a 3 perk Andy plus having ankle bracelets on.
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The issue is that even with the exhaustion debuff, exhaustion perks are still a no-brainer. As it currently stands you should ALWAYS have an exhaustion perk, you're practically punished for not having one because your chases are that much shorter. There's less thought when it comes to your build because one of your perk slots is basically already an 'Exhaustion Slot'. Non-exhaustion builds are weaker and I just wanted choosing an exhaustion perk to be more of a meaningful choice. Have some slight adavantage to make up for not having the exhaustion perk.
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I mean exhaustion hatchets huntress is one of my go to builds, and the survivors having an exhaustion perk is almost entirely useless. If they had any other perks to speed the game up in that situation it could be the difference between me 4king and not. You can also take into account fear monger which does a similar job of turning off a survivors perk.
While 90% of the time people run an exhaustion perk, that doesn't mean it was the best option for that slot for the game they played. I would rather have them nerf exhaustion perks to a point that they aren't considered best in slot. Than to make exhaustion something that you should avoid.
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You need to ask -why- people run an exhaustion perk 90% of the time. Yes there are a couple of alright perks and a couple of decent addons that can help counter them, but even with those things existing, almost everyone runs one. I don't think it's healthy balance for any archtype of perk to have such a high pickrate.
And I'm not asking for exhaustion to be something to avoid, I'd not want harsh penalties, simply something to make -not- running an exhausting perk feel slightly relevant. But yes nerfing most fo the exhaustion perks would also work.
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I see. But that is not a bad thing. Having exhaustion perks are a must because the game was always meant to have chases therefore perks that help with them are healthy. Specially if u go against a nurse for instance, and even if! when I play nurse I eat Lithes and Sprint Bursts like they mean nothing.
So maybe instead of another downside to those exhaustion perks, maybe they should add more deception perks, more viable ones. Because I think a little bit diversity in builds is also healthy.
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If you make exhaustion a debuff that helps the killer chase and down a survivor. Then you are getting value out of anything that gives exhaustion, not just the exhaustion perks themselves. I am happy to have things like Dead Hard and Sprint Burst looked at, if they give too much value for one perk slot. But, making exhaustion a downside extra, is really bad for the game.
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This post made me realize why new Iron Will deactivates when exhausted. Hard to be quiet when you're out of breath and running, I suppose. Gameplay wise those, it is weird that they nerfed it twice. But relating to the actual post, I think exhaustion itself is the downside, right? It literally deactivates a perk after the effect occurs.
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I'd like it if it made footsteps and breathing louder
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Yes
1. Less sprint duration
2. Slower vaults
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Imo exhaustion is ok as it is. The downside of exhaustion is that you can't chain more exhaustion perks together.
If anything, it could be nice if it increased more notably the breathing sounds.
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I can kinda see both sides...
Yea Exhaustion in of itself is bad enough (because you can't use a perk again)
And yea Exhaustion isn't bad to have given what we have seen (but that even been changed)
If they had left the Gen at 80 "charges" they could have thrown more negative effects onto Exhaustion... like what they did to Hemmorage
But what negative effects make sense is hard to say...
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i'd say you would need give an base-kit advantage for not using exhaustion that is related to the chase.
an example would be increasing survivor's movement speed by 2% and vaulting 10% faster. you have more of an opportunity to weight your options between using an exhaustion perk or having better chase statistics.
Punishing survivor using a perk will result in the survivor not using the perk at all if drawback out weights the positives. See No Mither for details for how to not design perks.
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