If You Want Less Tunnelers, Add A Reason Not To Tunnel
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A few big streamers have been saying for awhile that hook count should determine MMR, and not kill count, and I do think that could make a difference. Competitive players want to increase their MMR (for reasons I don't understand tbh lol) so that gives an incentive to focus on getting more hooks as opposed to just straight up kills.
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Some players play the game just to ruin others' experience, both side.
Forming a team to bully killer, or camping survivor at 5 Gen. Thats what their fun laid on.
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Maps that are larger than 9000m² are "fine" if you are Nurse or Blight.
Most of the time it's a huge disadvantage for any other killer.
Combine the ability to get infinite information with SWF and ultra safe loops and you have a recipe where only maybe 5 of the killers are really high quality and viable across many tile sets.
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You tunnel or you get gen rushed in 5 seconds and 4 Escapes with some tbagging/clicking for the trouble.
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It doesn't matter what they do. Tunnelers are gunna tunnel. No matter what changes are made they'll pick a new excuse as to why they have to tunnel.
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To decrease tunneling efficiency with Ruin, devs are going to disable the hex perk once 1 survivor died (3 vs 1 with totem alive and 2+ remaining generators was an auto-win by attrition).
To go further and to not promote tunneling using built-in mechanics, devs should add basekit "Grim Embrace" (and rework the perk).
Killers could get nice generator slowdown if they manage to hook the 4 survivors at least once (with 4 alive survivor condition, otherwise basekit "Grim Embrace" just never triggers in that trial - the purpose is to go after each survivor asap).
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The issue is that grim embrace no one uses in general because it takes too long to get those 4 hooks, by the time you do most of the gens are done. Moving it to basekit isn't going to change that fact.
People who tunnel for the sake of being toxic are outliers and don't compare to the amount of killers that play the game naturally.
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For the purpose of tilting survivors? What are you going on about right now.
There will ALWAYS be killers who camp and tunnel, that will literally never go away. Same way that there will always be survivors who constantly flashy clicky or teabag. It will always be a thing.
We know. Literally we know this. That is why they should change it. Clicky t bagging doesnt magically repair gens, whereas Camping/Tunneling does provide a benefit to the killer and their objective.
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But that is my point. That it's always gonna be there, there is no changing it.
If you simply give killers incentives to go out and chase other people and have an actual POSITIVE to doing so. It would happen so much less. It would go from being bad killers, good killers, and toxic killers doing it. To just toxic killers. Bad killers who tunnel don't ever win anyway as they are simply bad and not good enough. Good killers can now play the game freely without being held hostage to one viable boring strat. And toxic killers are such a small percentage and they'd still be doing it but it's a minority.
You can't just give survivors all these tools to combat tunneling without giving killers another route they can take, it's literally the dumbest thing you can do because all you do is yea kill the boring playstyle... but you've given no other option for killers to stay competitive so then they're just stuck with nothing.
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Of course there is, that is exactly what the devs are doing by making it harder. If it continues to be a problem the more likely it is for them to make it even harder and so on and so forth.
Also, as i said before, the incentive to go after others is trying to get more than a single kill all match. After all there are 4 survs not 1. The game was not meant for u to go after the same surv over and over. If that is ur gameplay I’m glad it’s being punished in the new update.
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And what we are telling you is that adding "other" reasons without addressing the actual core issue with how convenient it is to Camp/Tunnel someone out is an awful idea.
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What you don't understand is that it's not designed that way because you lose more, the more often you go after multiple survivors. Because it's literally a waste of time while survivors get free gens.
I'm not saying you cannot nerf tunneling. My issue is when people say to nerf tunneling without buffing other strats. They literally want to nerf tunneling and leave it at that.
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Why is it that Survivors are allowed to tunnel Generators and this is viewed as "fine?" This creates a problem for objective timers. Survivors can finish their main objective in 4 minutes (3 minutes if on voice coms and SWF strats).
Meanwhile at high MMR you can often spend one minute in chase if not playing Nurse or Blight. Then you have 10-15 seconds to hook a survivor. Then you need 20 seconds to travel anywhere meaningful. Also you hit the survivor twice so you need to add a 3 second cooldown per hit. Let's add all that up : 60+10+20+6 = 96 seconds.
Oh look what a surprise - this explains why too many people are escaping.
If we wan to make meaningful changes to bloodlust here's what needs to happen:
1) Getting hit by a pallet should increase your bloodlust - not remove it.
2) Make breaking a pallet increase your bloolust - not remove it.
3) Bloodlust should start when you are following a survivor's scratchmarks for longer than 5 seconds even when you can't see the survivor.
This would make M1 killers deadly in a chase. It would create the rule basically: you can't do anything to remove my bloodlust and I will eventually catch you. Survivors would hate this - so it won't happen. But it would make M1 killers fair.
How would bloodlust get removed then? Inflicting an injury state on survivors will remove bloodlust. This would require survivors to work together. It would mean you will not escape chases alone anymore. Your team mates hammering out generators would need to get off the generator if you are to escape a chase.
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I think i see what the problem is. Skill issue. Cuz the game literally is killing the most survs before they finish the gens and escape.
I recommend u watch otz’ 50 win streak on YouTube. He literally managed to get 50 win streak with every single killer in the game while streaming. Maybe then you’ll see how wrong u are.
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Otz completed many of these before MMR was part of the game. He will be the first to say : you can't do that anymore now that MMR is part of the game.
He kinda cheated on the Artist as he did the last 13 games on a day where they were testing mmr when it was essentially "off".
CMWinter got nearly 200 pig game wins in a row before MMR. Now that MMR is a thing he can't ever do it again. He's extremely good at pig too - but to be honest Pig just kinda sucks.
Also when you watch Otz play sometimes he will camp and tunnel during his challenges because he knows how much pressure it puts on survivors.
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Power to ya. Other people just want to feel powerful which you should when playing as a killer in any kind of game.
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Try to win a game on Puzzle map against good survivors without Tunneling and Camping.
Try it on Garden, Cowshed, Haddonfun, Ormond, Gas Heaven, Red Forest.....
See the problem?
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Not really lol SouzaSoul does it every week on stream. From Thursday to Sunday he plays as many different killers and always manage to pull off at least a 3k. I myself got a 17 win streak last week.
and Yes camping and tunneling are valid strategies but not as op has implied before on this very post. Tunneling ( and face camping for that matter) is only effective on overly altruistic survs, otherwise they’ll just ignore it and gen rush the killer
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Why don't you do an Otz style win streak?
Use No addons or offerings and you must kill 3 people. You may use whatever perks you like.
Why don't you try it with : Michael Myers.
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Sometimes tunneling is basically required.
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What? U do realize that was not the point right? Like at all.
Besides, I main Ghostface not Myers.
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Ok then play the next 50 games as Ghostface. Use addons or map offerings and whatever perks you like. Win 50 games in a row by letting at most 1 survivor escape.
It will be a cakewalk right?
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I literally watched otz do the all perk challenge, and watched him camp and tunnel MULTIPLE times throughout that entire challenge. So like... please stop.
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of course. Its the killer I play best. Cant guarantee anything, but it wouldn’t hurt. As I said I consistently get 3ks. But still, not the point. Tell me when u found it.
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As I said and I will repeat tunneling can be used as a strat but not the way u so clearly stated before. Also all perk challenge is not the same as a streak with the same killer. Quite the opposite really. Please pay attention
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Add more Gens and slow the speed at which Gens are being done. Fixed!
You know how bad it is to chase 1 survivor while 3 are doing a gen and once you down and hook your first survivor, atleast 2 or 3 gens go off?
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There's literally no difference are you slow? It's literally him playing the game TRYING to win. Whether it's with all perk challenge or not it's literally him trying his best in both challenges. And he's literally widdled down to tunneling and camping so often in the all perk challenge.
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I agree with this. Killers need incentives to go for the unhooker.
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There is man. Holy ######### ur dense. Watch his 50 win streak as legion or even Hag and pay attention how he plays and what he says.
because if u cant see how camping a hook after u saw other 2 survs came for the save is a valid strat, and just simply facecamping it in the hopes someone comes is stupid. Or tunneling when u need to exert pressure and just simply waste time on the same person the whole match. If u really dont see the difference idk what to tell u man. Develop game sense maybe? Idk
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Bro... if you don't get it thru ur head that his 50 game streaks literally happened before MMR and SBMM was a thing. He literally can't even DO 50 win streaks anymore LMFAO.
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Play bad so I can give worse players the opportunity to win within their comfort zone and not have to try to get better at the game.
Just turn off post game chat and knock yourself out. Don't try to make it look like you don't have a choice but to play like a douche.
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The fact you associate tunneling and playing to win as "playing like a douche" says a lot about you. Am I not allowed to want to win some days?
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You can win, and get this, without needing to take the fun away from other people and sweating your balls off! Crazy stuff. Maybe acknowledge the fact you don't belong in the MMR you got to by letting your build play for you and tunneling, then learn how to actually play.
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Hey buddy. Even the best of the best killers are widdled down to tunnelers and campers. It's because that's the only viable strat to win properly. You only win by going after multiple people if the survivors are straight up bad at the game and can't capitalize on the fact you're wasting all your time for hooks that don't matter.
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Oh yeah because good survs and good teams were invented after mmr was implemented so true so true. He nevet said he couldn’t lol. He literally explains why he didn’t try to get 50 with Sadako on stream
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I'm not talking about just Sadako, he literally hasn't reached 50 wins with a good amount of killers.
No one said good survivors didn't exist before MMR. The issue is that MMR FORCES you into games with ONLY good survivors game after game.
You just don't get it do you?
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Good amount = 3. Lol. Out of over 25. Jeez.
mmr forces u to go against good survs yes, so? What is the issue here? U want to just face potatoes and steamroll every match? Cmon!
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Are you actually slow? No one said I WANT to face bad survivors. The issue is that the only way to WIN against good survivors is to resort to tunneling and camping because there is literally no positives to going for multiple hooks. If MMR was based on hooks then yea maybe then, but it's not. Going after multiple people is just a waste of time and causes gens to be done like nothing.
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my god man, u have ur head so far up ur…u know what, sure if u refuse to accept there are many other, more viable strats than tunneling all game sure u do u you lol
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There's nothing to accept lmfao. Once i've started to see literally some of the top killers the game has to offer, to be widdled down into tunneling and camping I KNOW there are no other options.
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every fog whisperer and content creator does it every live stream, resorting to such strats only when logistically fruitful. But of curse YOU know better sure
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honestly nvm idk why im trying to reason with a guy literally jailed
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What you mean to say is, it's gonna be even EASIER to catch the ######### player and keep them there or do a hook trade then they go tunnel that ######### player out since they have to get off gens, head to pick up the survivor who was downed and by the time that happens, the ######### player will be downed and rehooked, resetting everything that just happened with no real progress for survivors. It's why I don't really say my thoughts on the forums anymore. It's become an echo chamber where if anything happens, one of the 2 groups complains about the other and says its fair or not fair based upon their own reasons.
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Yes because the Resident Evil Chapter didn't exist
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I believe that it comes down to efficiency in most cases. The goal for either side should be to be the most efficient and do what it takes to complete their objective. I understand that tunneling/slugging/camping may not be fun parts of the game for most Survivors but neither is getting gens completed in your face any fun for the Killer. Honestly at the end of the day people should be able to play how they want without being given grief for it.
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