show me the noed stats
I want to see the number of hooks/kills before last gen pops for noed and non noed users. I'm so bored of the noed games. Killer gets 0-2 hooks before endgame, you know they have noed. They don't know how to mindgame or basically do anything. You know they have noed because they just run into every pallet and vault every window. Then noed pops and they get 1-2 kills pending on how hard it is to find noed. Fun games.
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I think dev said NOED user tend to have lower kill rate or something?
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If you already know they have NOED - cleanse totems
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Yeah easy fix. Don't worry about fixing the broken perk that makes it so awful killers can get to high mmr. Just cleanse every dull totem! I want to see a video of you cleansing every dull totem on midwich and see how long that takes. I'm sure it's super fast and not an issue at all.
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This makes sense they have a low kill rate because they get boosted up to a higher mmr than they should be. The issue is that they cannot do anything until noed kicks in which leads to an extremely boring game.
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Basicly it's the same with DH DS, people using those are mostly bad. I doubt most can even play properly without meta perks giving them constant second chances.
There will be a lot of tears when they change it 😂
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I mean... What exactly are you going to be able to conclude from those stats? That Noed carries? The devs literally said in the patch notes that Noed can shift a match in the endgame and that they would like to keep it that way soo... Yeah...
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Here's the difference. Can you spot a DS/DH user? Can you say "oh this survivor doesn't know how to loop, doesnt know how to do anything, they must clearly be using DH/DS to carry them". No, exactly. I don't even run DS because it's not that often it'll proc. If someone told me I couldn't run DH then I wouldn't be crippled and lose every game. If you took away noed from a noed player they'd never even get more than 1k and rarely even 1k until their mmr dropped a ton.
Post edited by tendyhands on4 -
This is generally a bad idea. It's better to merely keep track of where the totems are. If others are running boons destroying their totems makes them sad. The bigger problem though is if you cleanse four of them but miss one, NoED still activates and now you don't know where it is. Granted this might still happen but the chances are less for each totem you find. Some totem spots are really asinine.
I do think though totem tracking perks in general need to be better. Counterforce only reveals the one furthest away and breaks if someone else cleanses or blesses that totem, Small game is really unreliable when the totem is inside something or on two level maps. Detective's Hunch is the best bet but only works for 10 seconds after a generator completes. Considering that tracking and interacting with totems is the only thing the first two do, they could be a LOT better.
Anyway to answer the question a poster recently put their findings from 1000 survivor games. Overall killers with NoED kills slightly less then killers without it. They are more likely to get at least one but little more then that. Furthermore, the way the tracking is going to work now, it's going to be significantly easier to find that totem. I personally wish they'd change the permaexposed nature of NoED completely and remove the hex part because it's very crutchy and still unenjoyable to go against if the killer is able to protect both the totem and the hook but it's better then nothing.
Furthermore the killers most likely to run NoED are Hag, Nurse and Wraith IRC. All killers who can use basic attacks from either long distances or stealth. Hag was by far the most likely adding even more fun to her fun filled playstyle /s.
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NOED is fine as it is, the real problem are new / low skill players use it to get more kills.
More kills = higher mmr.
with this i means you pushing your mmr, as new/low player higher and you shouldn't be on this level. the result is you get survs that loop you for hours and its no longer possible to get kills/downs without NOED.
next step : go to the forum start a cry post "SURVS OP, NERF"
i hope you see what i mean
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Don´t worry. NOED gets nerfed with the next patch. Then you can focus on cleansing only that one totem that lights up when you are within 24 meters of it.
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If they get 0-2 hooks during the game then you have plenty of time to do all five bones, hmm?
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I wanted to see the NOED stats for a different reason: to figure out what justified the nerf.
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Noed is fine where it is. The change coming to it is like the change to thrill, garbage.
Then again, many do the perk changes are probably not that good. (Corrupt Intervention)
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Yes a perk that can carry a really bad killer up to an mmr where they clearly dont belong is "fine".
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You realize how long it would take for a single survivor to find all 5 dull totems? And once again if you are in solo q then maybe 2 people are searching for all 5 dulls, you dont even know what dulls have been done by other teammates? If you are cleansing all 5 dull totems you must be at some trash mmr so that's why you dont see noed. No noed killer would be at that low of an mmr.
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lmao it's true tho generally you can recognize noed users they get 1-2 hooks max before EGC
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Stop saying that NOED moves killers to high MMR that shouldn't be there. The matchmaking system doesn't even work and doesn't matter. Any killer will get matched against opponents that far outclass them when the amount of survivors absolutely dwarfs the number of available killers which is every night. Baby Wraiths get shoved into matches against 8k hour SWFs routinely
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Could say that about a lot of things.
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That's actually the whole point, you cant. There isn't a single other perk in the game where if you took it away they wouldnt ever be able to win until massively lowering their mmr. Every single noed user at my mmr gets 3 or less hooks before the last gen pops. It would be an easy 4 escape EXCEPT FOR NOED. It's very obvious when they have it because they can't do literally anything until noed pops. Yes I run dh like every other high end mmr player. If you take that away am I never escaping? Of course not I can escape without DH, it definitely helps but I'm not crippled without it. If you take away ruin on my killer will I always lose? Of course not.
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*reads topic*
I guess MMR does work.
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I'll quote to you what I wrote in the topic I made about specifically this aspect of NOED, and the claim that it encourages survivors to 'do bones':
It doesn't. You may want to pre-emptively cleanse a godspawn totem if you come across it, but you definitely don't want to pre-emptively cleanse anything else unless you have strong indicators that NOED is in play.
Let me just lay the situations out...
Situation A: 5 totems cleansed, killer has NOED = NOED disabled, killer loses one perk. Does also mean a loss of 70 seconds of work, so it still worked as a slowdown.
Situation B: 5 totems cleansed, killer does not have NOED = Survivors wasted 70 seconds for no gain, making it work as slowdown without taking up a perk slot.
Situation C: 1-4 totems cleansed, killer does have NOED = NOED activates in full force, survivors wasted 14-56 seconds for no gain. Survivors still have to hunt down NOED totem in post-game.
Situation D: 1-4 totems cleansed, killer does not have NOED = Survivors wasted 14-56 seconds for no gain.
Situation E: 0 totems cleansed, killer has NOED = NOED activates full force, survivors have to hunt down NOED totem in post-game, same as situation C. however this time they did not waste 14-56 seconds.
Situation F: 0 totems cleansed, killer has NOED = No time wasted, no NOED in play.
Legitimately, pre-emptively cleansing totems is the wrong move in 90% of cases. I've broken more NOEDs by leaving totems up than I have by taking them down. The way NOED is currently constructed, it just makes it a mistake to try and cleanse totems, unless the killer is practically guaranteed to have NOED.
It is a risky gamble with a 14 seconds time investment to cleanse a non-hex totem. You are more likely to lose out than to gain.
This is not a comment on NOED balance-wise, but an explanation of something the devs seem to misunderstand.
So no, NOED is absolutely not the most avoidable killer perk, not by a country mile. It is honestly the least avoidable perk in the game because it either activates full force, works as a really solid slow-down perk, or both. The only way NOED doesn't get value is if it gets cleansed the moment it pops.
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I keep my own stats and track NOED. This comes from 1030 games played:
NOED shows up in 13.7% of matches, including all matches in which killers equip NOED as a perk even if the match does not reach endgame or NOED is cleansed before a survivor is hit with it. Killers that do not run NOED had a kill rate of 53.0%, NOED killers had a kill rate of 51.4%. As far as game outcomes, here is the spread of killers with NOED vs Killers without
NOED gives killers less 0k & 1ks, but they also have less 3ks, and significantly less 4ks (a difference of almost 5%). After seeming my results, I feel like the sentiment that NOEDs a bad perk if you a trying to win, but a great perk if all you want to do is secure an extra kill that you otherwise would not have gotten.
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That... Misses the point in its entirety.
All your comments do is prove that the Totems can be cleansed without issue if you choose to spend the time doing so.
No, they don't. I have not spoken about the attainability of each of these situations, because that would paint NOED in a far, FAR worse light, since it disproportionately disadvantages solo players and new players.
It does act, as you point out, as a slow down Perk if you take the time to kill them.
Thereby the perk becomes unavoidable, contrary to what you said.
You are not required to do so. You are gambling on whether they took NOED or not. :) That is a CHOICE. You can avoid it or not. You can hope they didn't bring it and make bank if you are right.
It is not a choice, it is a gamble with a heavy up-front investment. Its existence in the game creates a loss-loss-loss scenario for survivors, where almost nothing they do is actually correct. And again, this disproportionately hinders solo players and newbies.
From basically every angle, NOED is a terribly designed perk, and needs a rework.
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Jokes on you. I've memorized midwhich and I turned off noed on it twice before it ever spawned. Because:
1) I identified three perks the killer had and made the correct call that they were most likely fielding noed
2) I checked the totem spawns on my natural pathing to gens/evading the killer and circled back
Essentially, as a single person the only time I spent on totems was the actual cleansing totem.
Sorry I don't have a video, but this isn't exactly a hard pill to swallow for the better players, as they recognize that doing bones isn't hard, or even that time consuming.
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Of course with mmr at the end of the game they would have the same amount of kills. The issue as I specifically stated is BEFORE the last gen pops a noed user can do nothing. I have kept stats and a noed user gets around .2 kills a game before the last gen pops vs a non noed user having 1.7 kills a game before the last gen pops. That is a huge difference. Noed makes the game turn into "do nothing until last gen pops".
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Yesterday I played vs a bubba that got one hook and noed popped now I want to know where in this game could I have been doing totems.
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God what is with the needless complaining? It's like if I start complaining about dead hard right now, despite it being nerfed in like a couple of days. People just LOOOOOVE complaining I guess.
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No wonder, they are playing in games that are out of their natural skill range, supported by a cheap perk to help boost them there
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Eh yeah kinda. Ill see steve sprinting halfway accross the map to a pallet he wouldn't make then the almighty E comes in.
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A gamble is a choice; the two are synonymous with each other.
They're as synonymous as 'Pledged' and 'Donated'. That is to say; not at all.
There is nothing wrong with NOED. Actual metrics have shown this time and time again.
No they haven't. I don't even know if we've had any metrics regarding NOED in particular, let alone 'time and time again', but I believe the only thing that is suggested by anecdata from some forumers is that NOED doesn't disproportionately boost kill rates at higher ranks. Which is a very, very far cry from 'there is nothing wrong with NOED'.
I doubt DS was associated with a disproportionate escape rate increase, but that doesn't make the EGC nerf any less justified. Bad design is really hard to grasp in metrics. The only 'metric' we have to go off in terms of design quality is the amount of 'snivelling posts' you have to read. And since there's this many complaints about NOED, maybe there's something wrong with it.
Survivors decide whether NOED goes off.
A) That's not just up to them, there's a killer in the mix too.
B) It's also not in the individual survivor's power to do this without tanking the match.
C) You can stop the proc, but doing so costs you so much time that it's a stronger slowdown than Thanatophobia against a full No Mither team. That makes the perk unavoidable, per se.
Unless you want to count 'the perk popped up in my face the moment the fifth gen got completed', but that's entirely RNG and completely outside survivor control.
If NOED goes off the Survivors simply did not put in the effort to prevent it.
I used to run DetHunch and Inner Strength. I have shut down four NOEDs by not doing totems. I have shut down... I think 1 NOED by doing totems.
'Doing bones' is not the counter to NOED. It is the opposite of the counter to NOED. It is the literal worst thing you can do to try and stop NOED. Even if you perfectly wipe all five against a killer who has NOED, it was still less efficient than clearing it when it comes up.
And NONE of this is taking into account the role NOED plays in the camping problem, where survivors do not have the time they need to cleanse all five totems.
NOED is, by a country mile, the worst designed perk in the entire game.
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If you could read you would figure it out. I'm not even complaining that it's necessarily strong. I'm complaining that it's so brokenly strong it makes the games stupid boring before it pops because the killers are trash and cant do anything until they have noed.
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Do the totems first or play Killer. That way you will not come here to cry because you were outplayed.
NOED is a perk to be used end game, nothing wrong with it. The killer was playing with 3 perks the whole game.
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"I think it is clear that we will have to agree to disagree."
Yes, because if you still think that NOED encourages survivors to do totems, you haven't read anything I wrote, and you are not going to.
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It's getting nerfed soon... as in once this ptb is finished...
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Why wouldn’t you enjoy the increased threat in the endgame?
Threatening killers make the game fun. The scarier the killer the scarier the game.
What makes horror movies good are typically iconic and scary antagonists. I don’t get why people get so down on the game being what it’s meant to be, a threatening game of horror survival.
If you are basing your idea on an “unskilled” killer doesn’t deserve kills then I say that’s one of the dumbest mindsets to have about DBD.
NOED is great because even mediocre killers can be scary with it, which is the whole point of the game.
Why are you trying to escape in the first place if there is no threat?
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So since the players cannot voice any disagreement with the devs, the feedback section can just be scrapped, right?
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DS could shift a match for a survivor in the endgame yet they changed it
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