Who do you think will be the next character for LGBT representation?
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don't read the lore then
easy
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I never said „clothes have no gender“. And while the guy might be able to stop wearing those clothes, it doesn’t change the fact that he has a ‚desire‘ of sorts to wear those clothes and not his gender typical clothing. It’s not like some guy just doing it for fun once or for a costume party or whatever.
you really need to be more open-minded.
No one said you are the same as a crossdresser.
an asexual person isn’t the same as a pansexual person who isn’t the same as a transsexual person. But all of these are part of the LGBTQ+ community. You are literally only ever talking about LGBT, but always disregarding the + (which isn’t just QIA2S btw, even for that acronym there is a +)
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Tshirts and sweaters aren’t identified as a clothing for only one gender and not the other. Crossdressing only applies to trying on clothes that identity as opposite sex clothing.
And it’s not a choice whether you like certain clothing. That applies to anything. Did I choose to not find bananas tasty or something? I know food isn’t an LGBT+ thing and I’m not claiming that, it’s just an analogy.
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Crossdressers aren't LGBTQIA+. No one in LGBTQIA+ chooses to be who or what they are. Crossdressers CHOOSE to be crossdressers. Crossdressers can just go outside and wear their basic clothes and no one cares. I cant go outside and stop being trans/gay/bi/ace/whatever else.
If you aren't a crossdresser, idk why it is so important to prove to me, someone who is both bi and trans, that crossdressers need to be included in a marginalized group.
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You cant choose what clothes you like but you can choose which clothes you wear.
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I find quite sad the fact that you have to say that it's an analogy in order to not be misunderstood
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Yeah because people ALWAYS take things out of context, so I don’t see the issue there.
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To fill in some statistics which don't matter in a game about hide and seek and if found you die? 🤣
It's a video game it's not real.
Oh please.
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annnndddd you just proved their point
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if it doesn't matter why are you posting
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Because this is an online forum.
If you don't like it don't read it.
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I didnt take it out of context. A straight cisgender man who likes to wear woman's clothing isnt LGBTQIA+.
Quoted Karu since he explained it pretty well imo and I'm tired of explaining why straight cis people aren't LGBTQIA+ just because they decide to wear different clothes.
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No. Crossdressers can’t choose it like that. That’s what i have tried to tell you several times. They don’t choose to be like that. Why would anyone want to choose to like to wear clothing that would lead to actual discrimination against them? Why do they do often do it not in public?
it’s important for me because I don’t like discrimination like this. They are a marginalized group. They evidently even get discriminated by other marginalized groups.
why do you feel the need to exclude them when it’s clear this is about gender stereotypes, discrimination, people that can’t choose who they are etc?
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Well can't the same thing be applied to you tho? It's an online game, don't like the LGBT+ inclusion don't play it.
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"It doesn’t matter," says the person who is actively complaining at the thought of better representation of minorities.
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Then why are you playing the game if it’s not real? You make no sense.
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you're not the first one trying to knock some sense into him and you probably won't be the last, good luck with that
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I'm almost certain we just hit bingo actually.
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Who is forcing these crossdressers to wear certain clothes?
You can choose to be a crossdresser, just wear clothes that are for your gender. It's literally not a brain thing.
That's like saying furries can't choose to be furries, they ARE forced to wear fursuits. Please, this is ridiculous.
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It's not sense when you are advocating for a straight cis guy to be part of LGBTQIA+ just because he prefers to wear thongs instead of boxers. It's pathetic.
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Just out of curiosity, but how do you feel about gay, bi, pan, etc, crossdressers?
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For the 10th time, you can’t choose whether you like it or not.
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If they are gay/bi/pan/trans/etc they are LGBTQIA+. That's what makes them part of it, not crossdressing.
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You're not a drag so how can you be so sure that it's as simple as just wanting to wear clothes that are from the other gender ?
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Okay, thanks for explaining what you mean.
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But I am trans so I pretty much know what a drag queen is. It's not the same.
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It's almost like the reason they don't do crossdress openly is because doing so can get them physically/verbally/emotionally abused. And that wearing clothes that they feel don't fit them can cause active distress? Clothes are a huge part of identity. Whether or not they are LGBT+ is irrelevant and besides the point. They are a discriminated minority that cannot help the fact they like the clothes they do.
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I don't have anything against crossdressers, what I have a problem with is straight cis people wanting to be part of a marginalized group just because they like to wear different clothes.
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Cross-dressing males still have the privilege of being male, they don't have to cross-dress.
It's mostly a sexual thing it isn't LGBT.
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Are goths LGBTQIA+ then? I mean they cant help liking goth clothes, and a lot of people discriminate against goths so. No logic
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Couldn’t have said it any better.
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Ayyy we got there in the end
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Uhm. Society is forcing them? Do you actually think a man wearing a dress kn public would be more accepted than a gay man?
and again, we are not talking about people that do it once for fun. I… don’t get why you are so against the idea that there are people out there whose brains work different than yours?
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Yes, just as you said being trans is not the same, so you don't know how they feel and think.
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I called it
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And with all this nonsense I'm out.
It's more important to silence a trans person to defend straight cisgender men who like wearing women's clothes.
And people wonder why these threads never go anywhere, always the same people defending the same nonsense because they want to be quirky while at the same time telling actual LGBT+ people they are wrong.
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Can you link me where the LGBTQ+ community is defined like that?
because last I knew it was a loosely defined community to begin with and being a crossdresser doesn’t seem like a normal lifestyle choice
i agree they are not part of the core group of the LGBTQ+ community, but just the fact they are tied so close to the community and are being discriminated against and it is about gender conformity etc makes me think they are part of the +.
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Finally someone ######### sane. Thanks.
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You are the only one making comparisons to trans here.
no one ever implied that it’s comparable at all and no one denied that discrimination against trans people is worse than against drag.
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I'd like to make an addendum to this comment if that's okay, to better clarify what I mean.
I don't think that people who cross-dress face zero retaliation, discrimination, prejudice, etc. I'm almost certain, in fact, that most people who cross-dress will receive hatred for whatever reason.
However, to me, the LGBT community (I do mean the entire acronym here, however I write LGBT and have done for years because it's quicker and easier and my brain moves faster than I can type so being able to write anything shorter is always welcome) revolves around gender identity and sexuality. Not gender expression, but gender identity. So if you cross-dress, you're expressing your gender in whatever way makes you feel most comfortable, and you most likely don't want to stop because it helps you feel like you. You technically could but it wouldn't feel authentic, like I technically could date a woman but it wouldn't feel authentic and I wouldn't be happy.
But I don't think gender expression alone makes it into the LGBT acronym. I'm almost certain they're allies, and their support is invaluable considering the climate we currently exist in, but they aren't within that community imho unless they're also gay, bi, lesbian, trans, pan, etc.
However this then all depends on how you define "queer". To some, cross-dressing is classed as queer whilst to others it isn't.
The comment wasn't made to minimise the struggles that people who cross-dress face, so please don't interpret it that way.
I hope this can help clear up my viewpoint and get my opinion across better - I'm always open to a discussion, so long as it is a discussion, but like I mentioned prior I guess it all comes down to how you define "queer" in the context of LGBTQ+.
There's a lot of overlap between drag, cross-dressing, and LGBT identities. They aren't however completely interlinked, and you can do drag/cross-dress without being part of the LGBT community.
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If you look a bit into the history of the drag movement, you'll see that they were an important part of the LGBT movement history.
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No, you people are the ones comparing drag queens and crossdressers, even when they are cisgender and straight, saying they belong in the same group as LGBT+ people.
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They are an important part of how the LGBT+ movement is recognized and acknowledged nowadays and you just toss them out like they didn't belong in it in the first place.
Quite harsh.
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Whether or not crossdressers are part of LGBT+ is irrelevant and besides the point.
This is the reason things like the Progress Flag have become a thing in the first place. Defending JUST LGBT+, or JUST POC, (etc etc) is not enough. Being LGBT+ does not mean you are a POC. Being a POC does not mean you are LGBT+. But there is overlaps in both, and even when there is not, both are still minority groups that face discrimination.
LGBT+ people are not a monolith, nor do you speak for all of them. As an example, I am non-binary and pan. And I disagree with your take on the matter. You can defend both LGBT+, as well as other discriminated minorities. Like how you can support both LGBT+ and people of color. Crossdressing does not harm anyone (except bigots malding, which is irrelevant). Division benefits the oppressor, not the oppressed. Standing together is how said minority groups gain strength in unity.
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I always have to get that meme in somewhere because it's never not useful.
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and? where is the harm in that? You also have cisgender gay and transgender straight people in the same group here without any problems.
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Queer simply means not cisgender/straight.
So a crossdresser who is straight and cis is not queer.
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By that logic we can all be in the same groups? Can white people be included in groups for POC? Can able bodied people be included in groups for the disabled?
I'm sorry but groups exist for a reason and accepting people who don't belong to it defeats the purpose of them.
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That's definitely how I'd define it, and apparently a vast majority of LGBT websites and resources do too, but I know that some people will define it differently and thus their view on what is and isn't included under the acronym may be different.
If their definition is right or wrong, I don't really have the jurisdiction to say imo. I'd agree with "non-straight or non-cisgendered" but others may know it as something different, and since I'm a gay man and not someone who defines themself as queer I don't want to speak over those who define themselves that way and how they identify, if that makes sense?
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The last paragraph sum it all honestly.
Why rejecting people from where they belong so they can fight under the same flag for a common cause
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