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Are people overvallueing the amount of bp bbq&chili gave?
Bbq is losing the bloodpoint bonus and it will take a hefty amount out of the bloodpoints you will earn. But some people i know are acting like we will earn half as much bp as before.
That isn't really the case
Bbq didn't double your bp it just gives you the bp you earned in a match again. You earn bp in more ways then that.
Between offerings, daillies, archive, rank reset rewards, events and random bp codes i beginning to feel bbq's bp bonus was always a bit overrated.
It was good and losing it will be quite a chunk less bp. But probably like 15-20%. Even less with wglf with how much harder it is to get stacks with that perk.
Am i seeing that wrong? The more i think about the more i begin to think bbq's bonus really wasen't that big of a deal as we made it out to be.
Comments
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Yes it doubled my bp in a trial. That was at least 1 blood web per trial at lvl 50. And I'm guessing when at prestige 100 in the new system you either stay at lvl 50 blood webs or go back to the old 20 lvls of yellow and brown addons. Then when you get back to lvl 40 a perfect 32k game doesn't get you a blood web anymore
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I think ur underestimating it. It's probably 80% of my extra bloodpoints if we exclude BP offerings.
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For me it was double almost all the time
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lets say you played 4 games, earned a normal amount of BP each, (6000bp x 4 categories x 4 games = 96,000). In those 4 games, you completed a daily ritual as well as a tome challenge. (30,000 x 2 = 60,000). With BBQ bp bonus, youd get (96,000 x 2 + 60,000 = 252,000) total in those 4 matches., bonus is 96,000 of those bp, so bbq takes up 38% of your bp earnings that day
Remember that this value is 4 games. the percentage will only increase as you play more. After all, you only get 1 daily ritual every day, and tomes usually take 2-5 matches to complete depending on which level you're on.
Example: 12 Games where you also get an normal amount of bp, (6000 x 4 x 12 = 288,000). get a 30,000bp ritual to complete and completed 3 tome challenges (30,000 x 3 = 90,000). Your total bp with BBQ bp bonus is (288,000 x 2 + 30,000 + 90,000 = 696,000). BP bonus is 288,000 out of this, aka 41.3%
Also do note that i am excluding BP offerings, if i included them the percentages will increase even more.
TL;DR = BBQ bp bonus takes up 30-45%% of your BP earnings, this increases a lot once you bring good offerings and play well
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The difference between 30k and 60k is huge. I don't care about anything else, honestly. It made things much easier all around.
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But why are they reducing bloodpoint gains in the first place? Wasn’t the goal to reduce the current grind not increase it?
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I think it's a much bigger deal than that. I guess it depends a bit on how much you play killer in general (and admittedly the anniversary makes it look like less of a big deal since there were plenty of bloodpoints to get then anyways), but as someone who runs BBQ a lot when I play killer I can really feel the difference.
BP gains aren't being cut in half, but it's still a significant loss and will offset a lot of the grind reduction. Which is unfortunate.
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Yeah but you reached 30-45%
You also excluded rank rewards which for most players is like 500k and for the really dedicated 1 mil.
You also excluded any codes which during events often were 200k each. They aren't that uncommon
Like you said you also excluded bp offerings which would decrease the % of what bbq actually gives you (60k with bbq means bbq was 50% of the bloodpoints earned, 90k with bbq and bps is 33% of the bloodpoints earned by bbq)
Especially during the aniversarries you can get absolutely loaded with bp offerings. There were like 2-3 "bbq's" in each bloodweb.
Also excluded events like bloodhunts and stuff
Also excluded the new match incentive they are adding
I'm probably forgetting stuff. The beta tab thingy also gave bp right?
How much of your 30-45% is going to be left if you include all of that.
Especially for the avarage player. Most don't play 12 trails a day. I play a max of 3 and i think that's a safe bet most people play.
Don't get me wrong it's a hefty amount but your math with excluding all you did just convinced me more it's probably only 20-25% or something and not double as people are saying
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BBQ makes me need to play half the matches i would need so no, we are not overevalueing
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The most important part that goes is that it gives casual killer like me a soft goal instead of the 4k to work towards.
Now that it goes away i have not really anything visual and direct left to play for but the kills and my killing boner died off a few years back.
Edit: And the number of hooks doesn't really cut it for me. Especially when i have to put in the effort to keep in mind who is on death hook and who can take one more without dying thanks to the useless hook counter killer have.
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2x the BP for one match is a decent amount to lose. Roughly dropping from a whole blood web per match without it. Hell, the 32 from a perfect game is gone in a blink if your aiming for good addons.
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it was an excuse to get rid of the bp bonus... another user in this forum proved that the "grind reduction" to 75% was a clever lie
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You are also kinda assuming you'll get all 4 stacks all the time
Which isn't very realistic
Even if you're the best player in the world a survivor who dc's before you hook them is completely outside of your control and let's be honest it's not really uncommon
The more i think about the numbers the more i think bbq felt more impactfull then it actually is
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I don't know about him, but when I equip BBQ, I play for the 4 stack. ######### winning. It just so happens that I do win anyways most games.
Getting 4 stacks 90% of my games is very realistic. If they DC, who cares. Easy quick game, go next.
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BBQ bloodpoint gains should be basekit.
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"Also do note that i am excluding BP offerings, if i included them the percentages will increase even more.
TL;DR = BBQ bp bonus takes up 30-45%% of your BP earnings, this increases a lot once you bring good offerings and play well"
You mean Decrease.
If you bring BP offerings, the percentage of your BP attributed to BBQ will decrease.
Example:
You score 30,000 BP.
BBQ (if you get 4 stacks) doubles that by adding another 30,000.
Bloody Party Streamers similarly adds another 30,000.
Your total is 90,000, with 33% attributed to BBQ.
2 sets of BPS would give you 120,000, now BBQ is 25%.
Once you factor in offerings, dailies, challenges, codes, monthly reset, bloodhunts and events, you'll find BBQ probably accounts for about 25% or less, with WGLF closer to 10%.
Guess what; the new role incentive bonus provides a minimum of +25%
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minimum of 25% on the BP earnings of that game (so excluding offerings and such) on a role i don't even want to play
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Guess what; the new role incentive bonus provides a minimum of +25%
Scenario:
I'm playing killer
I average 25K per match (that's the average more or less, can we agree on that?)
There's a 25% bonus to play survivor
I start playing survivor
Survivor gains less bloodpoints than killers in average, let's say 20K average per match if you're competent
+25% = 25K average
Thanks for the bonus BHVR! That changed literally nothing!
Ok but what if I'm playing survivor?
I'm probably in a SWF so no way I'll go play killer by myself, especially when I can equip an Escape cake and get a bonus 100% more consistently, or when i can convince my friend(s) to bring a flans or BPS, to get a minumum bonus of 200% consistently.
Plus ehy, the 25% bonus is calculated on your MATCH bloodpoints, so you should compare it to what BBQ and WGLF gave on the MATCH bloodpoint gains, and 25% is comparable to ONE stack, ONE.
If you're playing killer and you got only ONE stack of BBQ, you probably had a very, VERY ######### game, if you're playing survivor and you got only ONE stack of WGLF, you're doing something wrong.
The bonus incentive is a scam, the bonus bloodpoints from BBQ and WGLF were way better
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How often do you have a game where you have flan or BPS offering let alone 2 outside of events? In most normal games BBQ provides half of your bloodpoints. This change is directly cutting your BP gains in half which seems weird if they actually wanted to reduce the grind.
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BBQ & WGLF gave up to 100% bp bonus for all categories so that's a set double base BP at max, so I can turn my 4k hours into 8k hours just by running those perks and getting max stacks a game
While offerings help most are pointless, not only do you need to buy them but they give you little reward,
- brown = 1k
- Yellow = 2k
- Green = 3k
- BBQ = 32K at max
See the big difference there?
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Bbq doesn't double your total bloodpoints though
It doubles the points you get in a trail
What i'm starting to think about is that a lot of bp we earn is outside of trails
Bbq does nothing for daillies, archives, events, bp codes, rank reset...
It's not really that bbq doesn't do much. But that the bp we earn per trail is so little that doubling it doesn't make as big of a difference people are thinking it does
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Considering I played probably 3 times as much during the event than I do usually, which was usually 4-5 flans per game, and usually try to use a 100% BP offering every game otherwise (BPS, Escape Cake, Survivor Pudding, old anniversary cakes), plus then there's other players doing the same occasionally.
I'd say I probably get more value out of BP offerings than I do BBQ, which isn't a guaranteed +100%.
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I still earn far more from BBQ than any other source. 30k ritual is nothing compared to it.
And as I explained most offerings are also pointless
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It’s true that those offering infact do bring more value than BBQ when used since they are guaranteed but the problem is that they are so rare that you can’t reliably get or use them.
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Yes you're seeing it wrong it gives me double bp almost always or close to it. So while BHVR says they reduced the grind by 3× that will not be the case after I earn half less bp after the change. And in fact they increased grind now you have to prestigate to level 100 and each time pay 50K bp too...
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It comes down to using your BP wisely.
I played loads over the anniversary event. In addition to getting +400/500% every game for two weeks (adjusted for the reduced amount I play the rest of the year equates to about 4-6 weeks worth of games, so 4-6 weeks of 4/5 times as much BP, this is potentially equivalent to 6 months, aka half of my annual BP gain. I accrued millions, I had to spend about 2-3 million BP evry day just to stop hitting the cap)
In addition to that massive windfall (which isn't entirely unique as the bloodhunts and haloween/winter/new year events are also fairly profitable) I also used that time to bank several Frightful Flans. I'm talking 50+ on at least 7 survivors, and 200+ on my main 4/5 killers, give or take a few more here or there. So approx. 1000+ flans, means I could use 3-4 a day every day for a year.
Bolstered with the odd BPS/escape cake/survivor pudding, these won't be 'rare' in any sense. In fact I still have 5th year anniversary cakes floating about. I have enough to bring one every single game, even if it means switching characters to make use of them.
I know not everyone will have "prepped" this way (though I wouldn't even call it that, I was just playing a lot during the event because I was having fun with the game) which is a shame.
A lot of it I think comes down to negativity. A lot of spiteful players refusing to use flans during the event because they didn't want other players getting "their" bonus (total falacy, more flans used during the event = more flans after it) and a lot of people just outright refusing to play during the event because they perceived it to be more toxic than usual ("perceived" being the key term here).
So you see, with my guaranteed BP offerings providing +100% every game, plus other players using them, plus future bloodhunts, plus challenges and codes. Even if I hit 4 stacks every game, BBQ is only providing about 25% of my BP.
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Let's say survivors do their personal bp offerings no shared ones like cakes ,flans or streamers. You have a survivor pudding, bbq and get let's say 30k for the average match. By losing the bbq you're BARELY going to finish that level 50 blood web if you play it perfectly. With bbq it's no problem.
If survivors bring shared bp offerings its not as noticeable but if they don't you're losing a good chunk of bonus bp. Instead of getting 90k bp you're getting 60k. Not to mention you can only get 3 dailies at a time and I don't think you're playing 1 game a day especially with this grind.
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Fine for you but BBQ was indeed responsible for half my BP intake.
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My issue with BBQ is simply I don’t think the perks should be “balanced” by bloodpoints since bloodpoints don’t impact the match itself. Perks and add-ons should have effects which actually somehow change how the match plays out, not be tied to some currency you spend between matches.
I’d rather the devs keep the bloodpoint bonuses to the offerings only. Then if it seems like people still aren’t earning points quickly enough they can simply increase the amount you earn per match at the base level.
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This is simply not mathematically possible unless you:
1) never claimed a daily ritual
2) never claimed a tome challenge
3) never used a bloodpoint offering
4) never played a game in which another player used an offering like BPS, Anniversary Cakes, etc.
5) never claimed a bloodpoint code
6) never got a login reward
7) never received a rank reset bonus
There may be more I am missing but every one of these things decreases the percentage of total bloodpoints earned from BBQ and WGLF, which at absolute maximum can be 50%
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See that's where so many people are wrong, BBQ doesn't double your bp. It doubles it in the trail. It does nothing for bp earned outside of that
Let's crunch some numbers
Last tome was 3015k in bloodpoints total over the span of 3 months. So that's an avarage of about 1000k a month
If you do your daillies everyday you have 900k per month at a minimun. there are 60k daillies but let's lowball it
You can earn up to 2 mil from rank rewards. But again let's say your a killer main and struggled a bit and only just made it in red ranks meaning 700k
That's 2.6 milion bp you earned that month that bbq did nothing with
If you avarage 25k bp per game and get 4 stacks every game (which is bs but again for the sake of argument) you would need to play 52 matches with 4 stacks for bbq to make up 25% of the bp you earned
And that's with lowballing the numbers. get iri 1 on both survivor and killer and that number changes to 78 matches per month
Not even counting offerings. every 5 survivor pudding you play or bps anyone plays adds 3 matches you need to play to have BBQ make up 25% of your total bp
And then i haven't even touched gift codes and events. there is a forum post where they asked how many flans people have and it wasen't hard to get into the thousands. More bp bbq does nothing with
You also won't always get 4 stacks. If you say you do you're lying. You're not going to tell me killers needed to be buffed cause the kill rate was to low but everyone still casually got their 4 bbq stacks all the time. Between Swf squads, survivors hiding to escape via hatch or DC's before you can hook you can miss quite a few stacks
Now it's ofcourse still a good chunk of bp bbq gives. But it's nowhere near double your bp that people are saying it does
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BBQ helped with the grind and especially helped during blood events.
32k match
32k because of BBQ
32k because of blood event
169.6k because of 5 flan offerring
This comes to 265.6k BP. 4 matches should put you at 1M BP.
So it helps, but as you said offerings, dailies and events help more.
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Here's the issue. I could of done all of those and still got double of my end game BP. Now I can still do the things listed but my extra 26-29k bp is absent.
Edit: also I should point out, a lot of things on that list are relatively recent. BBQ has been in the game for a much longer time and I have been playing for a very long time.
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but you won't always have events and offerings however you can always well you could always have BBQ and chili equipped.
I don't think anyone has ever argued that the mass amount of BP they earned was through BBQ but what advantage to the game does lowering an avenue to earning more bp earn to players? Yes, I know they changed the perks however for newer players they will now take longer to rank up those killers and survivors to get any use out of it.
Now keep in mind I 100% agree its booty cheeks to be tied to a perk cause that would incentivize having to
A) buy a licensed killer or feel you are being nerfed
B) limit your builds cause you felt like you were gimping yourself not using it.
However, as I have stated before a number of times why not just boost the trial BP by 100% flat or make the passive from BBQ or the survivor version baseline (This would help incentivize not tunneling or camping more cause it pushes killers to at least hook everyone once.)
BHVR seems to have some real issues with lessening the grind as much as they claim they want to with this patch. I think it stupid a new player needs to pour nearly 1k hours into the game just to unlock the perks that are a core mechanic to playing the game (And ys that's after the rework to perks to lower the grind time)
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Yes, no one can argue with that. And it definitely stinks that it's going away with the only compensation being a possible bonus for playing a role you may not want to play.
I only hope the developers mitigate the loss of these bloodpoints with things like more bloodhunt events, greater frequency of cakes, puddings, and BPS in bloodwebs, more frequent login rewards, etc. Also, the new 50k cost to prestige is just bizarre and completely unnecessary.
I do agree with the decision to remove bloodpoint bonuses from perks so we don't feel obligated to run them simply for the extra BP.
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I don't get why people want to argue about every single thing. Not only do you get 100% extra BP with BBQ, it also gives you a secondary goal to complete. If I only got 1-2 kills but I still managed to get 4 tokens on BBQ, that is very satisfying in itself. Now there isn't even a token function to the perk at all.
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For people who don't play very much AT ALL, you get more BP from codes and log-in events (I've gotten 8 million over the course of nine months, in which I've played exactly 12 matches).
For people who play a TON, you get bonus millions from rank resets, true, but you're also doubling what you earned in all of those games. Going from Ash IV to Iri I takes 90 pips. Even if you double pip every single game, that's still 45 matches. If you're getting max points each match, that's 1.44 million BP you're losing by not having BBQ/WGLF. Which, as you'll note, is MORE than the 1 million Grade reset reward.
For people who only played a reasonable amount, the VAST majority of your BP is from trials. And the BBQ/WGLF nerf cut that in half.
And even if you don't NEED the extra BP, it was still a secondary objective to achieve in the course of a match. Something you could set out to do so that even if you lost horribly, if you got those four stacks, you could feel like you had some kind of minor victory.
This game needs MORE secondary objectives, not fewer.
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Ok. I'm your boss at your job in real life. I know I'm not actually, this is just an analogy. I've got some bad news. I'm cutting your salary in half. Sorry, sacrifices need to be made and I know you're a team player. Good news is your sales commission is going to stay the same. I'm not going to mess with the end of year bonus either.
What's that? You quit? I think you're overvaluing your salary. I mean the end of year bonus is staying the same and the sales commission is staying the same. I don't see what the big deal is?
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No, I’m not overvaluing it. My BP were doubled almost every match
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I swear people will defend BHVR over anything.
BBQ was a consistent method for increasing bp. WGLF helped too, though not as much because BHVR hates giving survivors more bloodpoint. Otherwise they'd give you bp for staying on the hook. Especially while being camped. Somehow in 6 years they haven't thought to do that. Or maybe i guess they just want survivors to earn very little bp.
Dailies are once per day and barely enough for one bloodweb. Archives, once completed cannot be done again. And anniversary items are limited. BBQ was unlimited. No offerings required.
The fact is, you do not earn enough bp from each match as it is and BBQ was a consistent source of revenue. So much so that it was among the top perks in the game. It effectively doubled your bloodpoint in each trial. It was a free bloody party streamer you could use again and again. So instead of 20k from a bad match where you hooked everyone once but got no kills, you'd get 40k bp. Now, unless you use an offering, which are limited and rare, you only get 20k. Or if it happens to be the side with the incentive, then ,25k. Hoo boy! Enough to buy a whole node!
And of course survivors are getting a raw deal with the incentive it has to be in the mmr bracket to get the bonus! So instead if they need high mmr players, and you aren't one of them! Too bad. They got a raw deal from WGLF too having too few ways to earn stacks.
Even if you have enough bp offerings for one every match because you don't play enough, you're still cutting your bp by 1/3.
And for those happy to get a fourth perk slot: why did you even use BBQ in the first place, then? If you're okay with earning less BP, nothing was stopping you before.
Bloodpoints need to be increased across the board especially for survivors but for killers too. Especially now that a consistent method for extra bp has been removed with an inconsistent replacement. I mean a survivor can easily load into a match and earn only 5000 bp. Congrats survivor! You can buy a whole node! As long as it isn't purple or iridescent. Don't you really feel this game is worth your time? I remember hooking an Ash, he was left on hook by his teammates and he only got 3000 points! That's only enough for a brown node! Hope he didn't spend it all in one place.
Nobody would care about losing BBQ if BHVR had increased bp values across the board. But they did not do that. They've destroyed their bp economy. They could have easily made the bonuses basekit. Instead they give us an inconsistent method where if the stars align you can earn decent bp from one match.
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First of i'm not saying bbq was useless. Just pointing out that you're not going to cut the bloodpoints you earn in half like a lot of people think it's going to be. realistically it's more like 20% which isn't as drastic as people are making it out to be
Second if you're going to use that analogy a more accurate version is that stores will be cheaper but the bonus on overtime will be halved. For people who don't do much overtime it won't change much, and for the people who do it won't change enough to offset the reduction of store prices
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but stores are not cheaper, The stores are more expensive now and offer worse items (Forced prestige cost and forced blood web reset result in worse add-on grinding). The only bonus is if you spend a ######### ton of money at the store you get a bonus from it now.
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I did the math, and he's right. If you represent the bp loss as a percentage of every single bp you've ever earned, from all sources in history, it will make the percentage smaller.
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This would be my other question. if your argument is the BP loss is so insignificant why remove it at all? Sure I see the logic behind removing it from the perk but I feel most people making these posts and arguments are not fighting to have it put on the perk most like that it's being removed.
However, the argument is the mechanic gets backed in baseline and the perks get some other thing added or tuned to make up for the nerf or there is just an overall boost to BP gain.
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It literally doubled your BP gained. And this whole discussion aside. The fact that they would in one breath claim to reduce the grind and then in the next decrease the amount of BP a player can get per match in any capacity is laughable and embarassing.
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It douples the bp, that exactly what it is doing.
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I'm not saying it's insignificant
Just that it is not doubling it like people are saying. That it's not that hefty of a blow that people are expecting.
Just an observation that in the grand scheme it didn't do as much as people praised it for
Doesn't really matter anymore, it's gone soon anyway
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BBQ gave me a goal. I played for the 4-stack. Without that goal, I become demotivated to participate in trials. I know this from past experience where I tried playing without BBQ and I stopped hooking survivors entirely. I tried to still play to hook each survivor once, I kept that goal in mind, but without the little counter showing me my stacks, without the bonus at the end, it felt different, it felt pointless, and I completely lost interest in hooking. I ended up chasing survivors around a bit, and then I'd get bored and leave them to do 4 generators on their own. That's what happened when I tried to force myself to play without BBQ.
I'm not looking forward to this change.
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But it clearly does matter to some people oh wait it matters to a lot of people considering it was one of the most used perks in the game and you can't tell me it was used that much because of just the aura reading on it because there are plenty of other ones.
Of course, people are going to complain when they do something that makes 0 sense and just makes the game feel worse overall. They could of reduced the BP gained per match by 1% and people would still complain because why?
What is the benefit of doing it? Who does it help? What problem does it help solve? is it fixing some balancing issue?
Unless they give a good reason that outweighs the negative to what they are doing people are going to complain and they should and shouldn't just shut up and go oh well its gone soon anyway cause that's the whole point of these PTB's if every change they posted was just set in stone why have them? Why have feedback forums?
The bottom line is its a stupid change that just makes the game worse in every way. Lowering the Bp gained by any amount in a game that already takes hundreds if not thousands of hours of grinding to unlock everything is clearly going to piss people off. Even people who have everything I have talked to are not happy about the change cause it makes the experience for new players worse now.
You know what happens when your game is ######### for new players? They don't play it.
You know what happens when your game stops getting new players? It slowly dies out.
You know who does not want the game to die out and stop getting updates and content? the people who love the game and have invested 8K+ hours into it for 6 years.
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BBQ doubled what I busted my ass for in-game. It's like a high-five from myself for doing a great job. Even if you did terrible and only got 20k, it doubles to 40k and better than if you had a perfect match, played super sweaty for 32k. That's my thing. You could play chill and still make more than being super sweaty. The killer felt good afterwards and the survivors didn't feel like they're getting their ass stomped the entire time.
It was a win for both sides. Now without it, enjoy those matches where killers do their damndest to get 32k matches and become monsters to make sure they 4k.
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