Nurse is not hard, stop using it as an excuse for being the strongest killer
Why do people say nurse is hard to learn/play? You just need to get muscle memory for the blinks and thats it. She ignores half of the mechanics just because she can teleport: no hiding red stain, no footwork, barely any patrolling, little to none time management and she ignores pallets and walls.
Someone please tell me how is she harder to play than blight and billy.
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She is hard to learn. When it comes to playing her, after you got used to her Blinks, there are Killers who are harder to play than her.
But her learning curve is pretty steep, you will get quite a bunch of stompings while learning her.
(Does not excuse the fact that she is allowed to stay in the game as she is, but whatever, Devs are too scared)
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Instead of this, try learning her and get back to us. Put a few hundred hours into her and try playing her against good players.
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Correlation =/= caustion or whatever, but there's gotta be a reason why one of the free Killers is both widely considered to be the strongest in the whole game while simultaneously having the least usage overall among players.
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ofc mr survivor main says that, wheres your proof? lets see some games of you playing her.
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Why would we tell you how she is harder to play than blight and Billy? Many people who play Nurse use those killers as examples who also have high skill-caps. It's a shame Billy doesn't get more value for his skill-cap, but what does that have to with Nurse? Additional thoughts:
- Nurse has to patrol frequently if survivors are using their brains and respecting her terror radius as soon as they hear it, instead of after she's already blinked onto the gen
- Nurse players will hide their red stain at loops if they suspect a survivor is playing ultra-clever and may have forgot about it. It's certainly got me free hits on several tiles
- It's not just muscle memory, this doesn't deserve more elaboration it's been tried to death already
- Her time management is she is slow and so she has to be in fast chases all the time to ramp her pressure
For everyone who is immediately going to lose their minds about the range addons. Yeah, we already heard. Sorry the devs didn't agree with you. It's nutty.
Edit: All of the above was for your benefit, the reality is she IS hard and high-skill caps do deserve to be rewarded. Why you don't believe that, I don't particularly care.
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Yeah, maybe not as hard as some make her out to be, but still pretty damn hard. Top 3 for sure.
The saddest thing you'll see in DBD is a baby nurse.
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Yeah, but a Baby Nurse is in the learning phase. Which is the hardest.
When you learned the Killers, I think Billy, Huntress, Deathslinger, Blight and probably some more are harder than Nurse.
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yes
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My opinion on Nurse has changed alot over the last few months. I think she's in an okay spot atm. In my opinion Blight is the hardest killer to play tho.
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How did it start, and what changed it?
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your comment is very ambitious. Also you points are invalid because its that survivors need to learn to play against nurse not nurse against survivors she just needs to learn how to blink. Almost anything you learn from m1 killers she just bypasses by blinking like pallets and gained distance after hit, ds, lythe etc.
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Ok 22 post
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Except you're just wrong. As I encounter better survivors, I too have to improve and adapt new strategies. If you think it just takes muscle memory to go out and slay, go play 20 games on her and then record your next 20, we'll be here.
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That's not including all of his techs.
That stuff is straight forward.
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I played against so many Nurse's over the last few months that I learned so much on how to play against her. I also play her way more then I did before which made me so much better in chase. I'm a Blight main atm but Nurse is a good second. Not long ago I hated Nurse more then anything in this game. My opinion has completely changed.😁
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Nurse: Free for all players
Nurse: One of the least played killers in the game
Nurse: Has the lowest kill rate of any killer in the game every year that they've posted killer stats
Nurse: Perpetually banned/restricted in every DbD tournament
One of these things is not like the other. Almost as if playing nurse is INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT and you have to have a strong power to compensate for the fact that she literally cannot do anything without using her power 100% of the time.
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sounds like your problem indeed (also "strategies" lmao, so only nurse needs to have strategies? She needs the least amount of strategy)
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Oh my lord. It's like when people actually play her/against her more frequently, they actually improve.
It's what us filthy, opponent proclaimed nurse mains have been advocating for all along.
I'm shocked. Pikachu face.
Thank you for responding!
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So far everything you said has been qualitative, and subjective - so I responded in the same vein. If you have a problem with the word strategies, I don't really know what to tell you, except feel free to post a winstreak and prove us wrong.
I also never said only Nurse needs strategies. Huh? You can't rewrite history my post is like 10 minutes old, dude.
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They both take a lot of practice but I struggle way more with Blight then I did with Nurse. There's just so much to learn. But I think that's different for everyone.
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I've at least tried (sometimes very briefly) all of the killers, and in my experience, I found only Billy to be harder, and only marginally. Blight I would put just below those two.
Huntress and Slinger I did not have trouble with, at least on a fundamental level.
I do think nurse is kind of unique in that you have to get a feel for her power to do anything. With all of the other killers, you can at the very least play as a stock standard M1 killer to get hits if their power is eluding you.
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you used nurse needing strategy as an argument? what do you mean then?
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Haha, I can't deny that you were right about her. She's still the strongest killer in the game in my opinion but when you learn how to play against her you will have a much easier time. It may sound weird but playing AS her made me better in chase AGAINST her.😂
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Nurse is the hardest killer to learn, because she's the only killer in the game who has to use their power to get hits. Other killers who are harder to master like Blight can still just chase survivors and use M1 for hits without using their power. Nurse cannot do this unless the survivor just run at her.
But once you learn the muscle memory for her blinks that's really it. There's not anything mechanically complicated to learn after that.
While she's not the hardest killer in the game to master, she's certainly the hardest killer in the game to play since there's no fallback to being bad at her power.
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She probably is the strongest. I tend to accept arguments for maxed out Blight's and Billy's as well, that whole skill-cap kerfuffle requires acknowledging them.
The majority of improvement in my play has come from inserting myself into the shoes of the role I'm trying to beat and getting my ass spanked a few times until I figure it out. But it's worth seeing it, just for how that translates when I switch back to an intended role.
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No sir, my argument was that your statement:
"Also you points are invalid because its that survivors need to learn to play against nurse not nurse against survivors she just needs to learn how to blink."
Is utterly wrong. Nurse requires strategies like any other killer, the quantity and quality, again, is up for debate, but you are wrong. I don't need to elaborate further, I was only refuting a really senseless point from your side.
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How many times you 3-4k?
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my thoughts exactly (except the first half of the first sentence)
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I don't think there's any question that properly used, she is the strongest killer. I mean she can flat out ignore loops, which are essentially a surv's best defense.
She's not uncounterable, but she spits in the face of basic game mechanics in a way no other killer can.
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okay then "sir", I think just like you that: 𝐢 𝐚𝐦 𝐫𝐢𝐠𝐡𝐭. So lets just agree to disagree like gentlemen but that wont wave the fact that she is the strongest killer just because someone took their "time" and "effort" to play the most "difficult" killer in the game.
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The more we hardline mechanics, the more we spit on game health by homogenizing roles.
- If we draw the line at not having to kick pallets than Blight, Billy, and Bubba are considered rule breakers - I think that's extreme
- If we draw the line at red stain mechanics than stealth killers are rule breakers - also extreme
I think drawing the line at Nurse is very convenient for people who don't want to spend any time playing and learning her. Survivors still have a litany of in game tools to beat her, up to and including intelligent jukes.
As a percent? Probably 65%. Good days 80% bad days 40%, all depends on the kind of potatoes I get.
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Sorry, a subjective opinion can be, and in your case, is wrong. You started with "Nurse is not hard.", and literally every piece of evidence flies in the face of that. She also certainly is not just muscle memory. Extremes don't perform well, even as opinions.
You don't have to admit it, you're free to keep believing as you do, but I don't have to agree to disagree. Anytime I see such nonsense I'm going to respond.
For that last sentence - There is nothing wrong when expecting value out of pouring time into a hard-to-master role. It's the definition of a good role. There needs to be simple killers like trapper, because they are entry level and this game has a population that requires that. There also needs to be killers like Nurse, Blight, and Spirit, for game health.
Edited for clarity.
Post edited by foxsansbox on1 -
Like i 𝐬𝐚𝐢𝐝 we both think we are 𝐫𝐢𝐠𝐡𝐭. And since we are both stubborn of our opinion i thought that this is going nowhere but it seems like you outclassed me in the stubborn part because i was the one that proposed an agreement. But ill have your way. Im certain i dont see your "mountain" of evidence.
And nurse being healthy for the game? Dont make me laugh. Im sure you heard once that every perk good on a mediocre killer is broken on nurse, but i also say that every survivor perk good against nurse is also broken on the "not so strong as nurse" killers. She is the sole reason balancing is an issue in this game but the devs keeps pulling on the fact that "she has a low kill rate" which some nurse mains also use as an excuse aside from her being "hard" to play.
The reason for that i belive is that little Billy saw an clip on youtube and is also trying to recreate the event even though they knew nothing prior to the game in general. And after they lose motivation to play her they try other killers but the other killers feel so pale after they learn that there is a whole new dimention of problems a killer has to face instead of just tereporting past it. And im talking about the beginner killers because little Billy didnt unlock anything yet unless he played the game before or he got the game from his older brother Timmy that lets him play. In other words: nurse is inflated.
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I think it's also because you have way more hours then I have. I don't have nearly the experience that you have. I would love to stop by your stream sometime. Is your twitch the same as your name here?
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She is absolutely healthy for the game. I'm sorry you don't understand that. Good perks on mediocre killers being strong on Nurse is just another way of saying "Hey, most killers need help." There are also, gasp, perks that work well on other killers that have 0 value on her. This is actually an example of some nice diversity. BHVR has the ability to rework and update killers to make them more relevant. Nerfing Nurse because of a very loud minority doesn't make the other killers better.
We bring up the low kill rate to force people arguing nonsense back into reality. Repeat after me, she has a low kill rate. Do the math, create some random statistics that yield her kill rate, and you'll see just how many games people are losing with her. Hint: It's considerably more than people are winning with her, if you make the assumption that there are Nurse mains running around and never losing in any significant #. How you divy it up is up to you.
Rather than make a thread bashing Nurse, why not make a thread saying "I believe X should be the strongest killer, and here's why." Far more compelling than 'Rabble, rabble, I don't like a subset of the defenses players use to justify Nurse.'
Edit: Misread survivor perks, but my example holds true for the inverse. See; Distortion, Overcome, Lucky Break. Strong and mediocre perks that all perform very well against Nurse.
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Yes indeed those perks are useless on nurse because they are bad perks to begin with, you dont see those perks unless its a meme build or a somebody got their new killer. So the same perks are just being use over and over hence the perk rework.
About the win rate, im afraid you mentioned you own win rate today on the forums and i it clearly shows that 𝐲𝐨𝐮 need to return onto reality.
(at the bottom of the reply)
And yes, its not only nurse that can have over 50% win rate but i dont see how that is a low kill rate my friend.
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Except those perks aren't useless, what's the point of even coming into a forum if you buried your head in the sand? They work against some killers and they absolutely get great value against Nurse. What's the problem, besides you suggesting the extreme every chance you get?
As for your problem with my kill rates - please refer to the extensive forum history that accurately identifies that MMR is absolutely atrocious:
- If I'm bringing the meanest stuff and I get a SoloQ stack, I expect to win - whether or not I'm playing Nurse
- If I'm bringing the meanest stuff and I get non-meta memers, I expect to win - whether or not I'm playing Nurse
- If I had a crap game and it's EGC and my second target is on hook, I expect to draw or convert to a win - whether or not I'm playing Nurse
An individual is allowed to have higher or lower than average result, my personal experience does not justify your stance, just like I don't use it to justify mine.
If you're going to discount all perks because of the perk rework, then please assume survivors are bringing their nastiest too, because you're clearly only interested in the .0X% of players that fall into your point.
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tisk tisk tisk
Have you ever heard of "tunneling" my friend? Im sure you have. The made up term made by survivors to shame the killer for being overconfident? yes yes
Who can proxy camp the best? Nurse, she can blink back immediately that would put hags ability to shame. Unlike other killers that "tunnel", what they call tunneling i call overcommitment. Can nurse overcommit while "tunneling"? Can you body block her? I think not. Of course like any other killer if you hook everyone one by one "fairly" its going to be HARD. But what if you didnt?
Nurse can chase other survivors and teleport back to the hook when needed. Do you need anything more than muscle memory to play this? This is only perkless nurse. What if she had: "make your choice"? "haunted grounds"? "devour hope"? etc...
Of course you would think nurse is hard since you dont tunnel or camp, youre "playing nice" but still getting 3-4k 70-80% of the time? Or maybie you do. But do you really think that this takes a lot of skill? The only hard thing here is finding the survivors, but that is not just a nurse thing is it? You can also bring "lethal pursuer" to start the chase immediately. Whats so hard about this?
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I mean but aren’t you a killer main? I don’t think you have any room to talk there.
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Already did. On console. It's really not that hard, and double range makes her stupid easy. Most of her skill revolves around learning blink distance and blink recharge time, learning survivor pathing is not that hard and you always have an extra blink to correct yourself once you get clear line of sight if you make the wrong guess.
Still, I don't agree with most of the suggestions people have given to nerf her. I think she would be okay if they just made it so that her blink attacks do not count as basic attacks.
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You can post your 100 wins in a row vid any moment now.
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Alas i too am not looking to nerf her but im tired of pretending that she is hard to play and as i will not argue further just read my previous post:
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Strongest killer that still loses. Considering how many survivors complain about a good nurse, it's odd that they don't offset her extremely poor kill rate or maybe the full 40% is just from good nurses.
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Step by step:
- Tunneling is not exclusive to Nurse
- Your description that Nurse is by some absurd amount a better tunneller is inaccurate
- Nurse cannot blink back immediately, she has fatigue if she blinked out and if she's beyond her blink range she will have to do it in steps. Meanwhile Hag's proxying is extraordinary (it's literally her meta-strat) and there are several other killers who do proxying extremely well
- Any killer can overcommit by chasing a survivor outside of their depth, for too long
- You need map awareness, positional awareness, a read on hook states and perks so you're prepared to answer any counterplay that might be thrown at you - None of these are Nurse exclusive
- Feel free to cleanse totems, feel free to either unhook while she's still inside of her TR or after you've confirmed she's on the other side of the map - no one is forcing you to eat a make your choice and furthermore, no one is forcing you to eat a make your choice at a time that is situationally advantageous to your opposition
- I absolutely do tunnel and camp when I believe it will help secure a win, I don't know where you got the idea that I didn't - I literally spoke to playing as mean as I need to in order to win and get better
- I said I'm getting a 3-4k at around 60% of the time, and I also highlighted good and bad days to provide a little more flavor. What you did here is disingenuously highlighted my good day. This is called cherry picking. It's pretty lame
- Nurse absolutely does struggle to find survivors that play immersive. That is exactly why distortion is so good against her. She can not search well unless she is walking, and good survivors know to immerse once they hear the terror radius and force the Nurse to play two games. It's not just catch them. It's find them, and then catch them. Survivors not taking advantage of this are playing sub-optimally
- Sure you can bring Lethal Pursuit, Devour, Make your Choice, Haunted Grounds, and then you have 0 regression and no synergy with Lethal Pursuit unless you're running the tooth addon. What's the point? There are killers who use all these perks extremely well, they've been showcased in videos by better players than myself
You keep moving the goalposts, not that I have an issue addressing it, but we're now a far cry from "NURSE IS NOT HARD, STOP USING IT AS AN EXCUSE FOR BEING THE STRONGEST KILLER" Nurse is still hard, and there is nothing wrong with expecting hard-to-pilot killers to produce good results.
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still dont see whats hard about tunneling with nurse
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Sounds like a personal problem. I cannot help with that.
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Every killer needs muscle memory to apply their special attacks. This reads as just another hitpiece against nurse tbh.
Cant be sure if the hate is because its nurse that is the strongest, or because she is the strongest.
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Nurse is not hard which is why she's picked all the time, and nothing else, at every MMR level. Oh, wait, even before her nerfs she had the lowest kill and pickrates. But wait, she's actually super easy. Anyone can play her and be a 4k god. As a survivor that rarely ever plays killer, I played Nurse for the first time against literal babies and owned. Easy!!!!
Easy when you know how to play her? Sure, but what isn't easy when you know what you're doing? I'd say playing against Nurse would be easier if you knew how to play, but it's never going to be easy if they're good. I'd say Nurse's biggest problem is perks that synergize too well with her aggressive capabilities and her range addons, which are, quite simply, broken.
Billy is braindead easy. No one plays him the way you think people play him with curving, and people never did. Just because something that's impossible for 95% of the playerbase is hard doesn't mean the killer as a whole is inherently difficult. Blight isn't difficult, Blight is more common than Nurse, with higher kill rates, and he was everywhere and still is. Why? Do you think he's more played because he's harder? Give me a break
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Yes.
You're right in that you don't need to make excuses for nurse being a strong killer.
But the bigger point is... its not a bad thing that nurse is a strong killer that's why you don't need to make any excuses for her.
Strong killers are good, they are hard to get away from, scary to face and thematically on point.
Nurse doesn't need nerfs in fact more killers should be like nurse, varied suppressive mechanics that undermine survivor tools in one way or another.
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